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Processed When can we allow muting taunts?

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by Glitchy, Feb 25, 2021.

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  1. Looks like the taunt is doing its job extremely well if it made you decide to make a post to over exaggerate your claim on "Is this easy mode" because "toxic".
     
    Posted Feb 26, 2021
    BINGUSLOVER27 likes this.
  2. You’re one of the few people who see what I’m saying, they probably see “mute taunts” and think nothing more
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 26, 2021
    chungalunga likes this.
  3. This is something I definitely agree with. I think there are some serious issues with some of the current taunts on the network because of how they encourage toxic or rude behaviour back from another player, even if the player using the taunt meant nothing wrong. By definition, 'taunt' means to slander someone with insult, which provokes responses. Here's a supporting source because there's been a few people in this post who sort of bend the definition. (Variations of this definition are static in most English dictionaries, minus ones for children where the word does not appear)

    [​IMG]

    "A remark made in order to anger, wound or provoke someone", hence it's provocative nature. I just want to make it clear, even if a taunt isn't directed at someone, it can still provoke a negative response.

    I don't think this applies to all taunts though.
    I think some of them are good, they aren't as provocative as some of the others, and yes as some people mention, close players use them on each other such as the blow a kiss taunt. Taunts are normally introduced into games for 3 reasons:
    • They are there to encourage people to buy things with hard money (real money through a game shop)
    • They are because they could benefit the community and are being introduced incredibly carefully
    • They are there because the other side of the argument (receiver end) hasn't been properly investigated
    Mineplex doesn't fit any of these 3 so I'm a little bit confused as to why they were initially added, I mean yeah, more cosmetics and it was a big marketing thing when Eternal came out, but it never really took off, and I believe that's when and why they started becoming controversial. Some inspiration may have come from Hypixel (there is a difference between copying and inspiration) since they appeared there first, and arguably, they are much more neutral, for example instead of sending a chat message, they make a roaring sound and double the coins for the kill, I think when it involves manually invoked text is when it becomes an issue. I've made a list below of the ones I don't really agree with and why:


    • <player> thinks everyone is too much of a chicken to fight him. - This is the first one that started causing issues back in 2018, this is directly insulting players skill
    • <player> thought to themselves... Is this easy mode? - This one feels like it was created to provoke negative responses, this one itself has had multiple complaints about it over the time of it existing and the possibilities with using this one negatively outweigh the positive by about 10:1.
    • ;) (Or variation) - This one isn't as bad, but it connotates that you're trying to hide that you're laughing at another player which is insulting their skill in some cases, although this can be used in more friendly manners


    I think the chat messages should be blocked definitely if a player is ignoring the caster, it may be something good for @Nolawn's social update. The point in the ignore system is to forcefully end all contact with a player, and whilst said player still has the visual effects of the negative ones, they're not too noticeable so it's not too big of a deal if they're hidden or not. Should there be a way to completely turn off ALL taunts though? Yeah, I think so, not just because of toxicity but also because some of the effects they have on games where it starts testing the boundaries of what's cosmetic. Take the GWEN taunt for example. Guardians spin above you and then cause a massive explosion. This massive explosion hides players and in some cases with Optifine, turns the players temporarily invisible which means it can sometimes be used to get a leg-up in PVP. Yes, it's quick and it's over before you know it, but you can do a lot of damage in a few seconds.

    I think if there was a setting that would allow you to turn off taunt chat messages and the taunt animation, then it may be beneficial to the community. I think when this was suggested, people assumed that EVERYBODY would turn them off, this isn't the case as the setting should default to the player being able to see taunts. In reality, not everyone will turn off taunts if they had the chance either because they're too toxic/stubborn to own up to themselves that they're getting offended by it, or the player just won't know how to or be affected by it. To combat the reason of "then what's the point in taunts if everyone can turn them off", I think with the above, that if a player turns off taunts, it stops them from being able to cast theirs at all (like a message in chat saying "You cannot cast a taunt whilst you have them turned off") and the setting to re-disable them has a cooldown of 2 minutes after the last taunt by the player so that the player can't taunt then immediately turn the setting off.

    If anyone's taking a technical side in this (I haven't seen anyone bring this up yet) and saying particles and entity stuff have to be cast to the entire server (taunt animations), this isn't true. Spigot has built-in things for packets and sounds which only broadcasts them to specific players, and entity stuff can be hidden from some players by using the PacketPlayOutEntityDestroy packet or just by not making the entity visible to the player at all. This way they can curve lag and stop threads of people thinking that the GWEN taunt especially has negative effects on gameplay.

    It's a +1 from me.
     
    Posted Feb 26, 2021
    chungalunga, Fusafez and WowCaleb like this.
  4. Hey,

    Whether this thread is suggesting the ability to mute all taunts or for taunts to be muted from players you've ignored through the /ignore system, I agree with both.

    While it might seem extreme for a player to mute all taunts, at the end of the day, it's their preference. There are actually many different reasons as to why you might want to do this - @MachoPiggies has outlined a few in his post above. If you are annoyed by the visual effects of taunts such as the Guardian spinning and causing an explosion, then you obviously don't want to see that. A dramatic visual effect applies to the majority and so it's likely this is the most common issue players have with them in general, alongside how some taunts encourage toxic and negative behaviour. Taunt has already been defined above, so we're clear on how a taunt is intended to mock, ridicule or provoke someone and Mineplex's taunts fulfill that exact purpose despite being advertised as a fun, lighthearted cosmetic.

    Sure, most of them do fit this description, but others do not. This raises the discussion of the whole easy mode taunt all over again and whether it should be allowed. My personal opinion is no, and my justification for that is relevant to this suggestion purely because players have such a genuine reason for being affected by it in the way they are. It shouldn't be a case of "Just play and deal with it" if it's provoking an angry and toxic response from the majority. That's not a few "soft" players, that's an issue. People are being warned for saying "L" or "ez" three times when you can use the taunt to basically do the same thing 5 times, 10 times, 20 times - as many as you like without consequence. These type of taunts are inconsistent with the rules and if a solution to that isn't going to be offered (such as removing this taunt altogether, modifying it so it's no longer a loophole to engage in toxicity without being punished, or making "L" and "ez" no longer punishable) then players are one hundred percent within their right to choose not to see that.

    In conclusion, I'm in support of everything this thread might be proposing. It's as simple as when you have taunts - ones that are advertised as what you'd use to "have a good time" (as per the cosmetics GUI menu) that in reality annoy many players, whether visually or due to the toxic nature in which some of them are used - it should be obvious that players deserve a preference. I find that the people who disagree with this and say they should just "deal with it" are the ones sitting there wondering why the community can be so toxic. The answer is right in front of you. Taunts are a contributor to general toxicity - that is a fact. To reduce it, remove the problematic ones altogether or at the very least, like this thread suggests, allow a player to do that for themselves.
     
    Posted Feb 26, 2021
  5. I had never really thought of this, but I suppose that using /ignore on someone should also mute their taunts. As far as reworking taunts, I'm somewhat neutral. I personally don't get bothered by them, but I can see how people are bothered by certain taunts, especially the easy mode taunt. I think certain situations definitely make it more insulting than others, so I wouldn't be against it being reworked or removed. Or, as you seem to suggest, have it so these taunts can be ignored (especially if they become quite spammy).
     
    Posted Feb 26, 2021
  6. I don't really see this as necessary. I don't think any development time is going to be put into working to block a feature that they created themselves, and if it's so important specific players should filter them out individually (such as through LabyMod filtering out specific terms) because it doesn't affect a larger population of the server.
     
    Posted Feb 26, 2021
  7. it would only apply if the person is on your /ignore list, the whole point of /ignore is to basically say “shut up, you get no say in this, just shut up” and force them into it so you’re not seeing them and don’t have to acknowledge their very existence
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 27, 2021
  8. As mentioned, /ignore should cut off ALL interactions with whoever you added to that list, as that’s kinda the whole point of ignoring someone
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 27, 2021
  9. This idea has been pointed out many times and everytime I agree with it. Now, I get that the point of taunts are to be toxic-ish, but it's pretty much a double standard since General Rudeness is a super common reason for a mute. Really the solution is the above mentioned or to jsut remove GR punishments (not a fan of that), which would make the community pretty toxic.
     
    Posted Feb 27, 2021
  10. Just thought I would throw another two cents into the discussion, and damn has both @MachoPiggies and @WowCaleb said just about everything regarding both sides of this argument perfectly.

    That stated, there's something @MachoPiggies mentioned that I thought is worth pointing out explicitly:

    With regards to taunts affecting mini games, I want to make it clear that these taunts do not just affect PVP. In Nano Games' Hardcore Parkour, using this taunt and timing it just right to go off at the second or third jump is enough to cause the vast majority of a lobby to fail that jump outright. In this game mode, those three jumps that now have to be repeated is more than enough to guarantee those users' failing the game. This goes for every single parkour-based game on the Network.

    And while it's easy to say "oh you just need to get better and avoid those particles," isn't it far more logical to prevent those types of particles from occurring in the first place? Why do players need to learn a new skill set to counter cosmetics? And aren't cosmetics supposed to not affect game play? Because, in this instance, they most certainly are affecting game play... Is that not the exact opposite of what these cosmetics are marketed as?

    Edit:

    Just wanted to point this out as well:

    There's already a cosmetic on the server that does this. Kit selectors are only rendered client-sided. <o/
     
    Posted Feb 27, 2021,
    Last edited Feb 27, 2021
    WowCaleb likes this.
  11. I will be marking this thread as Processed and locking it.

    This is approved, /ignoring someone will also ignore their taunts, and hopefully will be released in a future update.

    Thread Locked ➵ Processed
     
    Posted May 2, 2021
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