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The Hidden GEM of SSM! No stealing my secondary. + a legit tier list?

Discussion in 'Super Smash Mobs' started by BoxingWithBoxes, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. Guys today and yesterday i've been fooling around with one amazing kit that no one uses! It's Guardian, and you would never guess how good this kit actually is. It's super hard to use and master, and since no one actually knows how to fight it since it's rarely used, it makes it all the more better. Why it may not be used? No one has taken the time to learn it, and they just give up since you die so quickly if you don't know what you're doing. Now into the things that makes this kit so good. 1: It's INCREDIBLY agile. Water splash is amazing, it launches you straight into the air, and then if you your sword after you use it, it'll propel you (at a very high velocity) in the direction you're looking, and causes what you know as the "splash" part of the ability. When you come into impact with the ground this move can actually damage opponents. The damage on this can vary depending on where the opponent gets hit, which makes this a very good tool for crossing up the opponent. It's also extremely useful because it can also be used as a non-melee options to get you out and into fighting situations. 2: Whirlpool axe, or what i like to think of as the scorpion move. You know? when scorpion says "get over hereee" in mortal combat? Ok, never mind. It's super good. its like sulphur bomb, it launches a tiny shard in the direction you're looking,but it only does 4 dmg instead of 6. It also has a 5 second cool down, and the best part of it is that it pulls the opponent towards you, which makes opponents who are running away from you get put into some trouble! 3: Now we come to the best part of this entire kit, i'm talking the laser move, i think it's called target laser, i don't know, but its sooooo good. Absolutely amazing, it targets an opponent and as long as they are within maybe 8 blocks of you, any attack you do will get +2 damage. Making guardian a terrifying combo force to reckon with. Now it also breaks when the opponent has been targeted for the max amount of time, or it they get too far away from you. When the laser breaks, it deals a variety of damage depending on how long they have had the laser on them, the max breaking damage is 6, and it is most definitely something that catches people off guard. 4,5, and 6: It's armor, i'll admit, is complete and utter trash. Which makes sense, since it's combing ability is so good. It also has incredibly bad regeneration, we're talking half a heart every... 4.5 seconds or something. i mean it's just awful, but the one thing they did to support this poor kit os they gave it this thorns ability. No it doesn't hurt you when you touch it or something, that'd be too good, no it gives you like 75% projectile resistance when you're at 4 hearts or less. That is so valuable when it comes to beating ranged kits and stuff like that. Like i said before, this kit takes some time to master, but i'll tell you, it'll most definitely be worth it, i myself am picking it up as a secondary, so ya'll better watch out!

    Here's my new tier list (legit):

    S- Guardian, Cow

    A- Creeper ,Spider, Wolf, Blaze, Skeleton, Slime, Skeletal Horse

    B- Enderman, Squid, Wither Skeleton, Zombie, Chicken, Pig

    C- Witch, Magma Cube, Sheep, Snowman, Iron Golem

    D- Villager (No one uses it, don't really know if it's good?)

    F- ?

    Did i miss any kits? Let me know, i'll update the list.
    Posted Nov 21, 2018
  2. Guardian - Yes it can do damage but mobile kits can ez counter it cuz they can get out of target lazer range.
    Its like, A+ (Usually ssm tier list is S+, S, A+, A, B, C, and thats what I'll be using throughout this post)

    Do keep in mind, tier lists are the potential of a kit when used at max potential. (Also if I don't mention a kit I agree with its standing, or because I just don't know myself)

    Cow - I wouldn't say cow is S+. S+ is perfect and little to 0 weaknesses. Cow's abilities don't really do a lot of damage on their own + have a ton of cooldown. Generally, cow is rated at A+

    Creeper - Im assuming your A tier is equivalent of S tier of normal tier lists, which means really good. Creeper, imo isn't this good. It has low armor and usually zoners can out-do creeper because of its low armor, meaning it usually loses at its own game in the neutral (Neutral being using projectiles from afar)

    Spider - Easily the best kit, should be higher. Needler does true damage + just good damage in general, and does perfect kb to combo into a flurry of melee's. Add web as the cherry on top to make things easier and you have a kit that can do the majority of your health in a few seconds.

    Blaze - Also shouldn't be this high. It's more of an annoying kit and if you don't play right, it can easily destroy you. But if you can play right, Blaze just crumbles. Should be A tier imo.

    Skeletal Horse - I can only assume you put this here cuz you found a campy, scummy skeletal horse player. Usually these types of skeletal horses are ez countered by skeleton, or kits with consistent ranged capablity.

    Enderman - I think should be higher. Enderman is an excellent zoner + good melee and good movement option.

    Squid - Imo, should be lower. It simply doesn't have the armor to compete, and Ink Shotgun doesn't do enough damage to really compensate for that.

    Zombie - As I said, tier lists are what if a character was played at max potential. Zombie is S+, right below Spider. If you can hit a majority of your arrows (Which some people can actually do and it's really annoying), you just eat 12 damage e v er y t i me you get shot. If you try to apply pressure melee wise, they can deaths grasp you away which makes it really annoying to deal with.

    Chicken - I don't understand why this kit isn't in your F tier. Even some of the best chicken players (Iceee123, Remkun, etc) can't win matchups with kits that are actually viable. It's quite literally impossible unless you stall forever which even then, just delays the inevitable loss you will take as chicken.

    Witch - Should be higher. Pretty good zoner, and a really good get-off-me tool. Although I could see how this could be this low, considering the many bugs surrounding it and its horrendous recovery.

    Iron Golem - Definitely should be higher, don't let the big hitbox fool you. It's damage output is amazing. It has a tool for ranged kits, and it can out-trade every kit in the game. If you play it right, this kit is easily A+ tier.

    Villager - In my opinion, I think its A+. Most people, however, think its A tier.
    Posted Nov 21, 2018
  3. I agree but I think the real reason spider (and wolf) are OP is because they get to spam double jump and their jumps have a high velocity. Their jumps are meant to be agile but that is exactly the reason that they are overpowered. It's very hard to hit a quick mob with projectile and you only get a few chances because it moves very quickly and will come at you fast. Limiting the jump would really bring these kits down in power because the spider has the capability of running into a battle, doing good damage AND run away if in trouble.
    Posted Nov 22, 2018
    SirInHueman likes this.
  4. You know what, I'm not even gonna bother arguing about Chicken's viability anymore, it's a lost cause.
    (Also never heard of either Iceee or Remkun, shows for how long I've been gone)

    I wouldn't say NOBODY uses Guardian. Sure, it's not as popular as the likes of Spider, Zombie, and Wolf (last one being overrated cough), but I certainly see it more than half decent Chickens, or Villager in general. Now there's a kit I want someone to try and master.
    Posted Nov 22, 2018
    SpitefulNick likes this.
  5. You also forgot to mention how WA has true damage, which imo, is the best part.
    Posted Nov 22, 2018
  6. Cuz its not viable :thinking:
    Posted Nov 22, 2018
    SpitefulNick likes this.
  7. Is this a serious post?
    Posted Nov 22, 2018
    Jam, CubicB, Pupett and 2 others like this.
  8. I think it has more potential than what people give it credit for (certainly not top tier or good, just, not garbage), but ehh...
    Posted Nov 23, 2018
    SirInHueman likes this.
  9. Guardian isn't top S tier, that spot is obviously taken by SSS+++ tier squid

    But for real, guardian can be deadly to go up against, but as mentioned in previous replies, a lot of the higher tier kits can easily stop it right in its tracks. Guardian relies mostly on getting close/medium range to deal the majority of its (usually burst) damage, and once water splash is used (while a great recovery), it leaves guardian in a vulnerable position for a period of time due to its low armor and virtually no defensive utility.

    > wolf cuts through 4.5 armor like a hot knife on butter due to its passive, ravage, + its mobility makes it difficult to keep a target laser on to deal burst damage/ initiate any meaningful combos. Not to mention wolf strike and directed double jump usually give the wolf combo priority and cub tackle can imobolize guardian to be destroyed by ravage.
    > spider can stop guardian in its tracks with spin web and deal massive damage with melee and needler combos. Its mobility gives guardian the same issue as wolf does, making it extra difficult to initiate any meaningful combos (+ climb can be used to negate whirlpool axes pull/ splash knockback)
    > ender can keep distance between guardian with block spam and deal deadly damage via its melee and just blink away if the guardian isn't careful with getting close.
    > iron golem can pull guardian close with hook and use its 7 melee damage to also cut through guardian's armor.
    > shorse's bone rush ignores guardian's super armor during water splash and can gimp guardian if not being careful.
    > creeper ends guardian with lightning shield and sulphur bomb spam. Guardians only real options are to waste laser on 7 melee and back off after using + 2 dmg whirlpool (which isn't even always a great option due to the fact that it pulls the creeper towards you with a shield activated) guardian's combos mostly rely on linking projectiles to melee, and lightning shield completely shuts that down, forcing guardian to use non optimal strategies that leave it open to easy damage.

    (These are some of the most notable kits that can give guardian a lot of trouble without much effort )
    Posted Nov 23, 2018
    Cabob likes this.
  10. Everyone has a different list when it comes to kits. Because everyone is differently skilled when it comes to certain kits.
    Posted Nov 23, 2018
  11. Not true. Tier lists are kits when a kit is played at max potential, its completely (or supposed to be) unaffected by how well you can play a kit.
    Posted Nov 23, 2018
  12. I disagree of the basis that not everyone can use a kit to it's full potential.
    Posted Nov 23, 2018
  13. No one can lol. The better you can use a kit, the more accurate a tier list becomes. Look at any PVP game outside of MC, they will probably have a tier list and more likely than not, they will all be roughly the same.
    Posted Nov 24, 2018
  14. You've never faced me then
    Posted Nov 24, 2018
    Jam likes this.
  15. Glad you found a kit that suits you!
    Posted Nov 24, 2018
  16. "not everyone" I didn't say nobody.
    --- Post updated ---

    This isn't true. You could have someone who's the best player in the world at villager that wins every match against people that are using what you consider to be the best kit. For this reason a tier list can't be a thing.
    Posted Nov 24, 2018
  17. Again, not true. A perfect Villager would not be able to beat a perfect Spider. Because spider has more potential, hence why it's higher on the tier list. If there was a villager winning every match, Villager would be a top tier, cuz obviously the Villager kit itself or the player has/has created a strategy that altered the meta (Also usually tier lists are people of equal skill going together, or "max potential". This is why tier lists are usually made by top tier players, because they have the most knowledge. If theres a top tier player who plays an uncommon kit, and thinks it's really good, then they'll put it at the top. No offense to BoxingWithBoxes but he isnt a top tier player, nor is guardian top tier. Super smash bros, for example. All the top players have roughly the same tier lists.
    Posted Nov 24, 2018,
    Last edited Nov 24, 2018
    Jam and CubicB like this.
  18. No, listen to what I'm saying. Assume everyone excluding one person was extremely good at villager kit. They beat everyone that is using a kit that's considered a higher tier. That means your tier theory can't exist because it doesn't apply to everyone. Assume one person decides to grind out and fully learn villager and starts to beat everyone. Does this mean it goes higher in the list because one player got really good with it? I would assume no.
    Posted Nov 25, 2018
  19. Your not listening to what I am saying. Theoretically speaking, if someone were to use Villager at a perfect level, they would not be able to beat someone using spider at a perfect level. It doesn't even have to be perfect. If someone of mediocre level played villager, and someone with that same exact skill played Spider, Spider would win. Your telling me, every game that has a tier list is inaccurate? If that many people are good at villager, and villager kit is dominating, then villager is a high tier kit itself.

    Here, let me give an example. Squid. Squid simply does not have the armor to be considered good. It just doesn't. It's damage output isn't exactly the best either, to compensate for that armor loss. Then, we have Spider. Spider has a bit more armor, and has an outstanding damage output. Spider also isn't countered by like, any kit (Which factors into tier lists). Very few. So tell me, which is objectively better? Spider also has more utility.

    Let me give another example. Super Smash Bros Brawl. Meta Knight completely dominates the game by a landslide. It just has everything, and I literally mean everything (No like seriously, it's actually broken). Then, you have Ganondorf, the complete opposite. It lacks everything except damage output, and even then its limited. If all the Ganondorfs started beating Meta Knight's in competitive, that quite literally HAS to mean the Ganondorfs created a strategy with the kit to counter Meta Knights. And because theoretically, these ganondorfs have a strategy to counter Meta Knight cuz they have what very few kits have (A counter to meta knight, lol) they would skyrocket in the tier list, and Meta Knight would drop in the tier list.
    Posted Nov 25, 2018
    EpicEnderDragon1 and Jam like this.
  20. Whatever you say, I'm still sticking to what I said.
    --- Post updated ---
    I read what you said but I am going to end it here before it turns into a full on beef.
    Posted Nov 25, 2018

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