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The Advantages and Disadvantages of the Sin Meta. ( And other things )

Discussion in 'Clans' started by kznny, Mar 21, 2020.

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  1. The Advantages and Disadvantages of the Sin Meta. (And why taking illusion out was bad)


    Advantages - As I see them
    -------------------------------------
    • The Sin Meta brought a balance to clans. A balance that only worked well for a medium-sized proportion of clans players - The Cheaters. A group of three cheaters could efficiently dominate over 8 players at once. The great advantage of power clans, because of this Meta was easily taken away. During the Sin Meta, S5-S6 Map 2, Power clans did not rule the hardcore servers, and smaller clans could thrive. There is a great fallacy to this reason though, almost one that deems it invalid.

    • Solo clans could thrive during the Sin Meta. A 1v2 could be easily won if the circumstances were right, a 2v1 was a good chance of a higher gain.

    • Almost put cheaters and non-cheaters on an equal playing field. If you were skilled enough, a cheater could be brought down with some effort. It wasn't impossible to defeat a cheating player in a 1v1, due to the fast movement speed and maneuvers that the Sin Meta brought to the game. Reach advantages could be quickly breached, to make them almost useless. Velocity hacks were completely useless, and aim-assist was almost useless due to - again - the fast-paced fighting style.

    Disadvantages - As I see them
    -----------------------------------------

    • Clans was ruled by cheaters. Cheaters roamed the servers. Blatant or non-blatant, I was one of them. Most Assassin fights weren't contests of skill. It was a contest of who would hack harder without being banned. I have experience doing this, as many players may know. It is very difficult to aim while clicking at a high speed at fast moving targets (In my experience) which is why many players bought and used cheats.

    • Power clans of cheaters were untouchable. Invincible. Having positive warpoints on many infamous cheater clans was EXTREMELY hard.

    • The other classes were ruled out. At the Sin Meta period, all of the other classes were easily beaten using a greatly overpowered combination of Illusion and Smokebomb. If you weren't good at Sin and aiming really fast, then you weren't good at clans.

    • The Sin Meta was associated with one thing, in my opinion, CHEATING. Players using hacks was too common.



    The Tank Meta
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    • The Tank Meta however, is not a total endorser of being legitimate. It is harder to catch less blatant cheaters who may ultimately have a great advantage over others. "Skill" could really be an extra 10th of a block of reach, or a 10 percent decline in the amount of Velocity taken.

    The Main Disadvantage to Removing Illusion and Smokebomb
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    • Removing mainly Illusion has effectively removed the equal playing field of legitimate players to non-legitimates on clans. There is no reason to earn Illusion on regular Mineplex by farming achievements. It removed the prime step to being able to dominate hardcore servers effectively on a 20 hour alternate account. With Illusion, cheaters on clans couldn't just log on and dominate clans 7,8, or 9, as I have heard they do now.

    I would appreciate hearing your thoughts.
    -land0rd
     
    Posted Mar 21, 2020
    Fallen™ likes this.
  2. I mean illusion had it's issues. It gave free hits (which is why it was able to take down cheaters) which made it almost impossible to fight someone playing illusion without having it yourself. Beating hackers shouldn't require legit players to be OP enough to take them down, they should get banned by vigilant staff and a good anti-cheat. The issue with illusion being so powerful, is that cheaters could use it to get a massive advantage.
     
    Posted Mar 21, 2020
    Busjack5, SpitefulNick and kznny like this.
  3. how hard are you trying to be unindexed
     
    Posted Mar 21, 2020
    kznny likes this.
  4. I've actually had this thread on a notepad for at least 30 days now, I just had to post it.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 21, 2020
  5. Agreed!
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 21, 2020
  6. Very true.
     
    Posted Mar 21, 2020
    kznny likes this.
  7. are you changed or.... do u still cheat
     
    Posted Mar 21, 2020
  8. Changed enough to stay away from clans for a while. I'll wait until I have people to play with, and I won't cheat.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 21, 2020
  9. We hope to add illusion back in once it can be tweaked//bugs are fixed. Smokebomb would likely stay out unless we get a rework to smokebomb.
     
    Posted Mar 25, 2020
    kznny likes this.
  10. By tweaked, do you mean that the falling out of the sky/free hits would be removed? Also, why would smokebomb stay out?
     
    Posted Mar 25, 2020
    kznny likes this.
  11. Just wondering, but why would illusion have favor over smoke-bomb? Smokebomb brings a lot more to clans than illusion. And not to mention, but illusion counters recall. That would make the assasins playing almost always have to use water bottles
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 25, 2020
  12. You still cheated on me during that one mps we had. I understand that you’re trying to change; you’ll eventually get there.
     
    Posted Mar 25, 2020
  13. Smokebomb is a very strong skill. The invisibility factor of smokebomb is an issue to clans. Players can flee from a fight more easily with smoke bomb than recall. Players can be super passive then pre-smoke into a ongoing fight having two decisions, they either get out of smoke to attack their opponent unexpectedly, or they don’t get out of smokebomb because the player will know they will die so they run away. It’s also harder to detect hacks in smokebomb unlike illusion. Keep in mind this will still happen with smokebomb even if the skill is fixed.
     
    Posted Mar 25, 2020
    kznny likes this.
  14. Evidence to support the claim? I wasn't cheating. Why I lost... by 700 points, Anyways I plan to start clicking when pvping.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 25, 2020
  15. I agree on the reasonings of why illusion was removed from Clans, but I do not think it was necessary to remove smoke bomb. Yes, it gave free hits on tanks, but you can literally 4 shot an assassin and 2 free hits on a tank does nothing if they have stews or fortitude. Smoke bomb gives a way to sneak and/or run away from people hence the word assassin. Recall is good, but always can be reworked since now it's very hard to kill tanks that know how to not hit evades especially those who have mounts and an ability to slow.
     
    Posted Mar 25, 2020
    kznny likes this.
  16. Smoke bomb was removed for its ease of use/lack of skill required to pull off, free escape card, ability to sneak up on people, and free hit starter.

    Lack of Skill -> Drop q to use, that's it.
    Free Escape Card -> Smoke bomb out of any situation. Low in hearts? Easy. Woosh, you're gone.
    Sneaky Sneaky Assassins -> Much like the Mineplex game, allows users to be 2 chunks away, run up to you and hit you without you reasonably knowing they were coming. Terrible for gameplay!!!
    Free Hit Starter -> Get 1-2 free hits each time, giving Assassins the home-field advantage.

    All in all, it was removed because it is a skill poorly designed for an open-world game such as Clans. It will likely not return... View more in-depth answers/arguments on @Veans' document, here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lH1eKqemmh9AfEyteaUbHln7AHXm-aAMdWGTK0tzfBE/edit?usp=sharing.

    Regards,
    Isaac.
     
    Posted Mar 26, 2020
  17. Smokebomb is an inherently overpowered ability in an open world gamemode like Clans. Because of how smokebomb currently works, it allows an assassin to have full control over the engagement and disengagement of a fight which is incredibly overbearing to every other kit. With smokebomb, assassin has a default net advantage over their opponent because they can control when the fight happens. If the assassin gets low, they can use smokebomb and the other kit has a significantly harder time continuing the fight if the assassin wants to get out. For engaging, presmokebombing to engage into a fight and get free hits off of your opponent. Smokebomb always guarantees two free hits (one before you go in, and one as you come out). With illusion fixes, illusion should only be able to guarantee one (before you go into illusion).
     
    Posted Apr 1, 2020 at 12:48 AM
    kznny likes this.
  18. Assassin is just a very overpowered kit in general in clans's open world environment
     
    Posted Apr 1, 2020 at 1:52 PM
    Fallen™ and kznny like this.

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