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Staff Application Idea

Discussion in 'Server Discussion' started by Sorhu, Feb 22, 2021.

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  1. Recently, neotheater brought it to my attention that players applying for staff are declined due to “ lack of depth “, “ lack of detail “, and “ immature “ ( this last one is funny, I can only imagine why someone would be rejected for that lol ). So, I had an idea- why don’t we fix these by giving the applicants questions that will make them want to write passionately in outstanding detail, give the staff who are reviewing the application a sense of what kind of person that they’re dealing with, and give the applicant truly deep and thought provoking questions?

    Here’s the idea- Implement political and religious questions.
    Structure may be similar to ( Question ) What is your opinion on the matter and why? Explain.

    You might be wondering, “ How does that fix anything? “ and I have the answer. In order to discuss politics and religion seriously, one HAS to have a decent bit of maturity. And since politics and religion are intensely personal and telling of just who a person is, I’m sure that lack of detail would be pretty much eliminated. Plus, the greatest way to get to know someone is to listen to their political opinion and learn about what they believe in. Boom, problem solved.

    Thanks to neotheater for inspiring me to come up with this idea :)
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
    Sunny / Slash and Paladise like this.
  2. Definitely not.

    The people applying for Trainee aren't 25 year olds with hopes to become a lawyer or political figure. They are 13-16 year olds (usually) who simply want to moderate block game.

    Politics should be kept out of the server. It can get inappropriate quickly and differing opinions can cause bias, hate, discrimination, etc. Plus, at such a young age, many people don't even understand politics. If they have an opinion on something, chances are it's an extremely uneducated opinion which might change if they knew more about the subject. People shouldn't have that all figured out when applying for a Trainee position on a server they like playing on. It should be separate.

    The questions on the application are perfect already, they have been reworked many times too. The application is just the first stage into applying as well - the questions ask for mainly why you would be a good candidate, and if you meet basic requirements for said concern then you will be invited to an interview. In the interview, many more questions are asked about you as a person.

    The greatest way to know someone is definitely not by figuring out their views on delicate topics. The best way to get to know someone is to find out what they love and hate to do, some of their favourite foods and what they're interested in doing/achieving. Plenty of times getting deep into politics or religion tears people apart. Once again, it is a delicate thing, and this suggestion is doing nothing but encouraging separation
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021,
    Last edited Feb 22, 2021
  3. How is it encouraging separation? If anything I think it would incourage people to make friends because somebody is different from them. And what somebody loves and hates to do, their favorite foods, and what they want to achieve are all good ways to get to know someone, but because religion and politcs are such personal things, they are the best ways to truly know someone.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 22, 2021
  4. Such a personal/political/religious question on an application that's for a volunteer minecraft position is immature/not the right move for a company at all. The question you gave does not fit with our application nor does it help unfortunately. The lack of detail denial from our Bat2 document really tells you all you need to know. It def does not say, "please write an essay about literally anything." It wants you to describe things pertaining to your experiences either on the server, with staff or just about yourself. Things related to the application that need to be known or give the recruiters some insight to how you are.


    Contrary to popular belief, the Trainee application does not favor one question or have one question that is more important than all of the others. So, if you cram a bunch of information into one section but leave the rest with only a few small tidbits you will be denied. Another common misconception is that the Recruitment team is looking for a specific number of lines/paragraphs, which also is not true. I have seen amazing quality applications with only 4-5 sentences per question outshine 4-5 paragraph per question. Detail all depends on what you write and how you choose to convey yourself to the Recruitment team.

    However, we do have some certain criteria. We really like to see equal effort being put forth into every question, so leaving some less detailed than others isn’t ideal (this doesn’t mean we need a massive commentary of Razer makes better headsets than Turtle Beach or your one warning for caps from April 2014). Also don’t assume that we know exactly what you’re talking about if you refer to specific places or servers you’ve had experience with before. Really go in-depth and describe every last little responsibility you’ve had before (please state specific server names, you won’t get in trouble for it, I promise). Another pitfall I often see applicants making is simply answering the question asked without expanding upon your answer. Is your goal to join Quality Assurance? Cool, tell us why you have waves of euphoria pouring throughout your soul when you think of squashing bugs. Have you had a really awesome interaction with a staff member before? Don’t be afraid to tell us what happened! Do you think that Discord is hands-down the most fantastic part of our network? We’d love to hear all about it! Lastly, don’t focus on trying to write what you think we’d like to read, write down how you genuinely feel and think. We would prefer to see honest flaws in a person rather than false perfection.

    The best way to show and include a lot of detail is to tell us more about yourself. Don’t just answer the question with the bare minimum, really show us what goes on inside your head and why you’ve decided to answer every question the way that you have. The more of your personality we are able to see, the better we can envision you on the staff team and know how you'd operate within it. We get hundreds of applications everyday, and if you'd like to be considered you need to show us what qualities you have which would make you an asset to our staff team, and why you are suitable for the role. This includes explaining conditions such as being “helpful”, “mature”, and “experienced”, as anyone can say they are these things without including some sort of concrete examples. Even if it takes a two-page narrative detailing how determined you are, no one will criticize you for writing too much.


    Especially that last paragraph. "The best way to show and include a lot of detail is to tell us more about yourself. Don’t just answer the question with the bare minimum, really show us what goes on inside your head and why you’ve decided to answer every question the way that you have. The more of your personality we are able to see, the better we can envision you on the staff team and know how you'd operate within it."

    Personality is really what we want to know. Religion, race, etc. isn't needed in an application and they are sensitive topics that should not be used- especially for a kid friendly minecraft server.
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
    Idut, Fusafez, aiirr and 2 others like this.
  5. As mentioned, politics (and religion) are a delicate subject. They're also the things that rule over our communities, cities, and countries and everybody has a different opinion. Do I have to mention USA at the moment? Two distinct views and the people want to tear each other apart because of it.

    I definitely think people should get along and get to know each other as much as possible, but if you should never be forced to express your views, especially in an application that has nothing to do with actual politics and is made for kids/teenagers, as it can make many people uncomfortable and is a very personal thing (as you mentioned yourself).

    Don't skip over my other points - at this age, people tend to not have their views figured out. There is so much conflict going on and good/bad things about every idea that it's difficult to pick one especially when you are still in secondary/middle/high school.
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
    unsorrowful and BlondieBrook like this.
  6. Hello there,

    Although I respect your idea about changing the questions, I don’t believe there should be questions about politics or religion. For me, there are things I don’t typically share, and are ultimately confidential. These don’t really show “what kind of person they are dealing with”, it simply shows their views and ideology. Although Mineplex accepts those who have different political views, and religions, I don’t agree with them being implemented on the application. It’s just simply unnecessary.

    Throughout the application process you can easily find out about the person. Although I’m definitely no way, shape, or form a recruiter the current application questions will definitely tell the recruiters how you act in situations, and a little about yourself. Thanks for sharing your ideas!

    -BlondieBrook
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
    unsorrowful likes this.
  7. @BlondieBrook thank you for remaining polite and civil while stating your counterclaim. That did not go unnoticed by me, you have earned my respect. @Marzie you would be wise to act in such a way as she did, rather than calling me immature. I would also like you to possibly clarify your opinion on politics and religion as “ literally anything “ because I respect you as a human being, and the intelligence that comes with it, and I ( forgive me if I am wrong ) don’t think you meant it that way. And @Marzie, if you would like people to continue sharing their ideas on the forums I don’t think it would be a good idea to bash them over an innocent idea ( if you get what I mean ). You may think that I’m some kind of evil individual trying to destroy the application process, but I would like to argue otherwise! It was just a little idea that came to me after a discussion with neotheater on a different thread. Take it for what you will. I’m not going to get angry, this is simply not worth it. I only ask that you learn from this @Marzie, and if you do, it would mean that this thread has come to some good use. On a side note @Marzie, I would like to suggest you change your profile picture. -snip- I feel like I would respect what you have to say more if you got that changed. Thank you as well @maevestarbaby for remaining respectful of me and my idea.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 22, 2021
  8. I don't really see a point for politics and religion. I don't get why the recruiters need to know that. It doesn't really show maturity in my opinion. Some of my friends are under the age of 13 and there perfectly mature.
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
    okDamien likes this.
  9. I didn’t say that you can’t be mature if you can’t discuss politics, I said that you have to be mature TO discuss politics.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 22, 2021
  10. Honestly, there shouldn’t be political/religious questions. I know you keep saying that if you are mature enough to answer political/religious questions, then you are mature enough to be on the staff team, that, in all reality, isn’t true. A 13 year old can say their views and religion with no problem and still be immature. Also, like others have said, since this is a kid-friendly server, there shouldn’t be political questions, or religious questions. Also, some people are uncomfortable to answer questions about politics and religion, which would deter people from applying. So personally, I wouldn’t want this to be on the application.
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
    Hypickel likes this.
  11. Heya,

    I'm gonna have to disagree with this. While I can understand the thought process behind this idea, it would open up a huge range of issues. This is a Minecraft server aimed at families of all races, backgrounds, countries and etcetera. This would be incredibly hard to judge when not every applicant is American or celebrates the "biggest world religions" or might just be something you're not interested in.

    You should never be judged based on your political and religious beliefs just to pass an application process for a Minecraft trainee volunteer. A lot of people are extremely private about this, even within the staff team, because it's not something people are here to debate or question. People are entitled to their beliefs and when viewing these questions, the answers are totally subjective and incredibly hard to judge. Sure you can get some "deep answers" but it's not relevant or necessary for a minecraft trainee application. You also have to understand some people have no interest in politics, especially younger teenagers, as well as religion which some people will have bad experiences within their life making it a touchy subject and deterrent for them to apply. It'd be difficult to judge and could easily be waffle. As someone from Ireland, I have little understanding of American politics as Irish politics is unbelievably different to us; as an American would trouble with ours and all the fancy names we use; how could they say what I've said is completely wrong if they don't know how every world government works, how would they know I'm exaggerating little details which are opinion based on matters they wouldn't understand since they are unfamiliar with my country? It isn't a fair evaluation nor would it be very practicle for volunteers to judge.

    Something like this, which a lot of students in schools may have studied depending on their region, can be a literal copied essay their teacher gave them in class for good marks, or was formatted and corrected by professors. So, some of these opinions may not even be theirs and just what they think Recruitment want to hear.

    Immaturity is a denial that usually stems from behaviour around our platform; not just how you write in an application. People display maturity in various ways. Knowing and discussing religion and politics (which is different for every single country) doesn't show that you are mature. You don't have to be mature to memorise government workings and form an opinion. It shows you are knowledgeable about a serious topic and have certain opinions about it- it doesn't equal maturity. You show you are mature by how you present yourself in your writing and your behaviour on the server/forums/discord. Someone can talk and provide valuable points about any topic, even religion and politics, but be rude and insensitive while making points.

    How can you go against an opinion as well? If it's well written, we're not here to disagree with your beliefs and deny you because they aren't what we'd expect. This would quickly really upset people who get denied and will start rumours that Recruitment/the staff team are hateful or worse. It's too risky and controversial for a family friendly server.


    If you are denied for this reason, don’t automatically assume that it’s because you haven’t been nice. Immaturity comes in the form of acting younger than you are. If you are over 13, then we’ve noticed behavior of yours that doesn’t correlate with the staff team’s vision, such as rudeness/saltiness, inappropriate behavior, rage, excessive sarcasm, passive-aggressiveness, negativity, etc. Once again, these issues may not be something that you can fix within a timespan of two weeks, and you may need to view your own personality and say, “am I acting in a way that benefits both the staff team and the player base?”. There’s absolutely no reason to “force” yourself to grow up to achieve this position, however. Some people don’t have the personality that we look for in the staff team, and by no means should you feel like you have to “change” yourself for this position, but you could ask yourself if the position is right for you. Often times when the we see applicants go through a forceful change, it's not good for them or for the Recruitment team. If you feel like your maturity is an issue, try looking at how you behave even outside of Mineplex. If that behavior is something you want to improve upon, then I definitely encourage you to! But, if it's not, then don't try to force yourself to. It won't be a solution in the long-term.

    - quoted from the bat2.


    Depth and detail are not accomplished by discussing controversial topics. It's how you write about yourself and show us your passions, qualities and knowledge of the server; which is all relevant to what you're doing and can be evaluated in a cleaner way over an opinion piece on religion/politics which not everyone is knowledgeable in or are specifically talking about their country or religion which may not be the main population.

    Detail can be achieved without depth. For example, "I am very cool". Why are you cool? What makes you believe you have this quality and what evidence do you have to back up this statement. A detailed answer can tell us that you are cool because you're a down to earth person who is likeable amongst peers in school. You consider yourself cool because it is what others say about you. There you have a 'detailed' answer that covers all those questions, but it lacks depth because we don't truly get a feeling that you truly mean this and sounds like your bullet pointing something without meaning. To add depth is to make it personal, enhance your standard of writing. Tell us what moments challenged this quality and why you think you deserve to be labelled as 'cool'. Explain moments where you have questioned yourself and overcame it and were able to make a decision which no one else could make adds a serious amount of depth.

    We want to know about YOU and what value you would bring to the team. Give us a true feeling for what you're passionate about when it comes to Mineplex.

    The denial reason from the bat2 explaining lack of depth is here:

    It should come as no surprise that the Recruitment team loves to read, and reading interesting and detailed applications are one of our favorite things! Majority of the time, this rejection message corresponds to an application that may have had unique points, but failed to elaborate on them. What sort of elaboration are we looking for? We'd really love to learn "what, why, how" you have these traits, feel these motivators, or bring those qualities to the table. Illustrating unique points that help you stand out is always a bonus! We'd really love to get to know more about you as both a person and a candidate, so don't be afraid to really go in-depth when explaining things! However, that being said, try your best to stay on-topic and not stray from the question at hand with irrelevant details or thoughts that don't lead anywhere. If you're rejected for this reason, rest assured that we'd love to give you another chance to tell us all about you.


    I hope you can understand why I've said what I have. The best TLDR I can give is that I disagree as it is controversial, extremely hard to judge and would be very subjective since these things aren't the same around the world, and it isn't relevant to Minecraft. As well as this, detail and depth can come from any conversation. As for maturity, it's how you present yourself, not how you write about delicate subjects.

    Thanks for the suggestion though.
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021,
    Last edited Feb 22, 2021
  12. "for a company"
    Was not towards you. I said the question would be immature for the company if we did add it. Unsure how that goes towards you unless I'm missing something.

    "write an essay about literally anything" was more so referring to the bat2 document again.
    "We really like to see equal effort being put forth into every question, so leaving some less detailed than others isn’t ideal (this doesn’t mean we need a massive commentary of Razer makes better headsets than Turtle Beach or your one warning for caps from April 2014)"


    I don't see or understand where you believe I am bashing you or your idea. I really just gave examples of what we want to see from applicants via the bat2 doc. I also don't think you're evil for such an idea (also unsure where that came from), I just don't find it likely to happen and doesn't fit in with our application at all. Sorry if you feel/felt that way. We always try to tell people too- you can't assume tone all the time through text, it's quite hard.
    :happyt3:
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
    Idut and Fusafez like this.
  13. @Jylie I would like to clarify my thinking a little. I am not in any way shape or form saying Mineplex should judge the specific beliefs or opinions- I am saying that it might be an idea to help people who usually aren’t great writers show the staff members that are observing their application that they are able to put forth detail and can do so. I chose politics and religion as possible options because people feel strongly about them. However, anything that people feel strongly about could work in substitute.

    @Marzie, I was offering an idea “ for the company “ so I believe that “ for the company “ WAs in fact, directed towards me. The way you conveyed your thinking lead me to believe that you were calling me/my idea immature, and there’s no helping that. However, I appreciate your apology. I still stand by my comment about your profile picture though.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 22, 2021
  14. Heya

    Just for some context for people who don't know what thread you're referring to when you said how I told you about the rejection reasons: https://www.mineplex.com/threads/application-advices.188932/

    Whilst I'm honoured you had an epiphany because of me; unfortunately, like everyone else, I am going to have to disagree with this idea. The rejection reasons for everything outside of the application itself are varied. Some are due to past actions on the network, some are due to the application, some are due to not meeting requirements, some are due to mistakes made within the application process itself, some in interviews and some in observations. The Immaturity rejection within itself is extremely rarely related to the application, and is more based on past actions an applicant has done within the network that are still yet to be discussed/amended to a degree Recruitment are happy with. The addition of a question based around politics/religion will not fix this at all, and as such it would be a pretty pointless addition that could easily stir-up controversy.

    Whilst the application could maybe do with some updating and sprucing up here-and-there, this is not the step forward. A question based on politics/religion/anything controversial would not be a worthwhile addition to Mineplex's application. We are a Minecraft server, and that means that controversial topics have little to no place on this network. Of course, people are welcome to discuss their opinions in respectful manners, but due to the fact people's opinions are not necessary pieces of information for the recruitment process or as a Staff member the addition of this question would not be necessary.

    As I told you earlier on in the original thread and earlier on in this thread, people are rejected for reasons outside of the application. There are very minimal rejection reasons that are purely application-based. Recruitment, aside from the non-negotiable requirements, take everything case-by-case with applicants. This especially applies to the Not Ready rejection and the Immaturity rejection. A political question would not solve this.

    I also don't think prying into an applicant's personal opinions would be the best step forward for the Trainee Application process either. I disagree with the fact learning about somebody's religious or political beliefs are the best way to get to know someone. I have plenty of friends, I never asked them about their beliefs. I had plenty of successful interviewees who went onto be successful Staff members, I never asked them either yet I truly did get to know them. Some people don't want to share which president they support, or which God (or no God) they worship, or what their LGBTQS+ orientation is. And that's perfectly okay. Recruitment don't need to know that. They never ask for anything too personal and it will remain that way for the near future I would hope and imagine.

    Additionally, just to ease your mind slightly, the Lack of Detail rejection and Lack of Depth rejection are nothing to do with politics either. These rejections are similar in nature, both involving Recruitment just not getting enough information in general about an applicant to move them onto the next stage of the process. Adding in a question about politics or religion to an application that was lacking detail with 3-5 word answers per question wouldn't change anything, and with Lack of Depth it would also not change much. Whilst yes, Recruitment love to get to know people enough during the application phase to move them onto Interviews - the application is more focused on somebody's motivations to become a Staff member, why they should be a Staff member, and what they are looking to do on the Staff team to see if their intentions are pure enough. It has nothing to do with somebody's personal beliefs.

    I'm sorry, but it's a no from me. I don't see Recruitment adding this in the future nor do I think it should be added. However good on you for coming up with a solution that you thought would work! It's great to see people who do care enough to make a change. If you want to discuss more in depth changes to the application, then be sure to message @Islendingurinn (the Recruitment Admin) to talk about that a bit more. If you have a back and forth conversation with him, then perhaps something can be done in the future about a suggestion you might have for the application. :)
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
  15. I can completely understand your thinking behind this, but even with a question revolving around a more mature topic, this wouldn't ease the writing experience. The applicant would need to be eloquent in all sections of the application. Writing is a skill and it won't always translate. Passion is a drive, yes, but they need to show that passion in every question. Not just one which isn't actually related to Mineplex.

    The current questions would still exist and are there because we want to know about you and your experience with Mineplex and why you want to help moderate and provide good customer service. These questions weigh heavy into the process. Questions that include offtopic chatter unrelated to Mineplex can show us you are passionate about something, which is a wonderful quality, but we're looking for people who are passionate about Mineplex and the role of Trainee. We want to know you feel strongly about volunteering here.

    While knowing you can write well is of significant benefit, you also have to display that same skill in the other questions. It would probably be more important that you were better written in other questions considering it's a position you're applying for. This question wouldn't truly provide further benefit or insight into how a user would work within the team and why they want to be on Mineplex.

    It'd be hard to judge an opinion, and while I know the core is evaluating the level of quality, it could cause uncomfortableness and other issues best avoided.

    I would also like to note, if you're applying for a job in-real-life, this type of application style wouldn't be used. If you are applying to become an Accountant, you will not be asked at any stage what the powerhouse of the cell is or any biology topics. You wouldn't be asked about religious beliefs or stances on gender equality (or anything along that line unless it's the field you're working towards) either, since it's not relevant and won't affect how you do the job. I know Mineplex trainee is a volunteer position, but this sort of process in-real-life would still apply here.
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
  16. Hey neo, remember the staff island argument we had? This post made me think about that for some reason.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 22, 2021
    Paladise likes this.
  17. Hey hey

    I want to start off by giving thanks for suggesting changes to the application process! As for the idea itself, I want to quickly mention what the purpose of the application is. The application in its design is supposed to be general and open ended for applicants to feel comfortable with providing answers and/or topics in their own way, not being limited by a certain question in a specific area. Now, with that in mind, the Recruitment team does not currently have any plans of adding specific and narrow questions (such as you described). The reason for this is that applicants come from all over the world, from different backgrounds and offer different sets of skills and experiences. I think we'd be doing ourselves a disservice if we'd not be open to those things by narrowing down our questions. I want our applicants to feel comfortable with answering in the way they want to, covering the topics that they want to cover. If I were to add questions such as your example about politics, I'd then be forcing the applicant pool to start talking about things that may not be of interest to them. If you want to mention politics in your Trainee application then you are free to, but I must question the relevance of those topics, since at the end of the day we don't really care what your political opinion is and neither does it matter as a staff member.

    Now, to cover the basis of the mentioned rejections. Not enough detail is the lower-level application rejection that happens in the first 12-48 hours after you submit your application. The rejection essentially covers if your application has enough variety, point selection and elaboration in your points (without a deep analysis of those points). Essentially, if an application is rejected for this often times it's due to answers being limited to statements. For example, someone saying "I'm helpful" without, or at least in a very limited capacity, explaining anything behind it. Anyone can claim they're helpful, so it's not really useful information to the Recruitment team unless there's some kind of explanation behind it. The lack of depth rejection is the higher-level rejection which happens in the application reviewal stage (which is in the first 2-10 days). The rejection comes from Recruitment team members reviewing your application, reading through it, and then finally deciding on this rejection reason. Mostly, this rejection reason comes from elaboration not being what we're looking for (i.e. someone explaining they're helpful by mentioning something irrelevant and/or points generally lacking in explanation).

    Now that I've explained the basis behind the depth/detail rejections, I'm going to extend those to the idea suggested. If applicants are being rejected for these things in the current format, adding another question is not really going to solve that. At the end of the day, there's still improvement in these areas to be made, and adding a question that's unrelated to those won't help. For example, if you fail to explain your points about why you should become a staff member, how is a question about something entirely different going to help?
     
    Posted Feb 22, 2021
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