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Spawn Camping of Hunters

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by Icarys, Aug 23, 2022.

  1. Greetings.

    Recently, I've been getting back into Block Hunt (Java); still a classic. Plus I've something else to play other than Nano Games, lol.

    There is an issue I have noticed from a Hunter's perspective; I'll call it spawn camping. As far as I can see, this trend happens as follows;

    During the 20 second window that hiders have to get into position, people change into chickens/flowerpots and position themselves around the exit point of the Hunter's spawn. When the game actually begins, they proceed to bowspam the Hunters when they haven't exited, preventing them from doing so easily. There isn't a singular Hider doing this, but many.

    In essence, this spawn camping is the problem, although the severity seems to depend on the specific map that's in question. Admittedly, my Block Hunt experience is still limited, but so far, here's what I gather;

    Pirate Island:

    This is a map where Hunters spawn on a ship, and must leave via a singular plank.

    1. Hunters are funneled into a small area where they can be harassed.
    2. Surrounding the ship is water which makes it harder to survive this initial onslaught as a Hunter due to limited mobility when dodging arrows.
    3. If you're lucky to reach the shore, Shocking Hiders will be waiting, plus you cannot really use your bow effectively.
    4. Leaping Hunters can potentially get around this,but people may want to start the game with other kits.
    5. Using Leaping Hunters may work for this map, but it isn't a guarantee for others which may be less open.
    6. Hunters tend to be at an unfair disadvantage here;
    7. They are outnumbered, so can have multiple hiders focusing on an individual.
    8. It is more difficult to hit an individual hider due to distance + size of chickens and flower pots.
    9. The ship isn't the best area for strafing and dodging.

    Besieged

    This is a map where Hunters spawn in a small area, and must leave through some broken battering ram (I think that's what it is).

    1. This is another map that suffers from the same funneling issue.
    2. It's not possible to leave spawn at all due to the machine-gun arrows. In one game, I saw at least 5 chickens doing this.
    3. Since the Hunters cannot leave spawn to hunt, it's not really a game anymore. The best that they can do is remain in their spawn area so the Hiders don't get the satisfaction of any kills. Otherwise, it's a hopeless WWI style attempt at exiting that's doomed to fail.

    Atlantis

    1. Funneling, again. Hunters can be sniped from the ground level, or above from the little balcony.
    2. The room the Hunters spawn in has holes. On its own it's not a problem, however it's annoying when exiting via the ground is not possible.
    3. This balcony is protected by a fence. On its own it's not a problem, however it's annoying when exiting via the ground is not possible.
    4. I did have a game where it took a gang of at least 3 chickens to ruin 2 Hunters.

    So, here's the part where I should try to convince you why this is an issue that demands a resolution on a higher level.

    1. From a Hunter's perspective, this is frustrating, as you're virtually powerless due to insurmountable odds, as I have highlighted above.
    2. The game can be controlled by a select few people. I'd say to the detriment of everyone else, although it's technically a plus for the other hiders...
    3. It's not possible for new players to play and get experience. They'll just be overwhelmed and most likely give up.
    4. This effectively amounts to gatekeeping as per the above point. It may also be next to impossible for people to achievement hunt. (say whatever you want about the achievement kit, people may still want to have all the achievements for completionist's sakes)
    5. There's no guarantee that another game may be ongoing, as a consequence of the server's overall player count.
    6. Block Hunt is one of Mineplex's OG games, I think we can agree to this. It'd be a shame if it cannot benefit from a stream of new players.
    7. I've seen people say "git gud" when related things were brought up. Spock would like to say “the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.” ;)

    In brief, here's what I propose to solve this issue;

    1. Maps themselves can be altered to some degree. I'm old enough to remember when this was done to protect the wolves in Castle Siege from the Undead; before, people would farm wolves for easy kills. Here, what I have described as "funneling" should be eliminated.
    2. A period of immunity has been floated around in my research. I'll be honest, since the aim is to make it easier for Hunters to exit spawn, it can just be temporary knockback immunity. Hunters already have armour, so I'm not too concerned about health. This need only apply so Hunters can leave their spawn. I'll get the ball rolling at 5-8 seconds?
    3. Withhold the "Smoke Bomb" until some duration of time has passed, e.g. 1 minute?
    4. Grant Hiders the ability to use bows after a short amount of actual gametime (starts when the hunters are released), e.g. 15 seconds.
    5. 2. can apply when Hunters die and respawn.
    I would welcome more input though, game balancing and that shebang isn't my sort of stuff.

    Beyond this point is just some addendum type stuff, nothing essential.

    I'm going to credit some already-existing threads for contributing to my understanding of this matter and potentially contributing to above solution ideas;

    https://www.mineplex.com/threads/bl...eres-nothing-fun-about-being-a-hunter.202525/
    https://www.mineplex.com/threads/chickens-or-something-idk.223171/
    https://www.mineplex.com/threads/to-chicken-and-flower-pot-morphers-why-do-you-use-this.218818/
    https://www.mineplex.com/threads/an-issue-i-ran-into-with-blockhunt.220140/
    https://www.mineplex.com/threads/chiken-is-too-op.179787/
    https://www.mineplex.com/threads/a-serious-post-about-bow-spam.125408/ (this may be a joke thread according to some replies)

    I'm also aware of the GI thread (however it doesn't seem to include a mention of what I'm highlighting as far as I can see, at least).

    I may make a separate thread as a Game Alterations suggestion, but it'd be good to put out some feelers via this thread to see what others think and promote some discussion. I still feel my ideas are under-cooked.

    I tried recording a few games but my recording software didn't fully capture the chat + my screen (I'm a bit boomerish, forgive me). Feel free to dismiss this point, but I did see;

    Hiders saying things to the effect of "the hunters didn't even try" or "didn't leave spawn" after my aforementioned game on Besieged. This is not a taunt in this context.
     
    Posted Aug 23, 2022
    Widestsinger and tori like this.
  2. Sadly this also happens on bedrock but its far worse. on bedrock block hunt has had a glitch for years where every hider besides animals will be invis. So imagine trying to kill a camping bow spammer but not only can you not see them, you also cant hit them unless you use a bow. Yeah you cant even hit hiders with a sword if they are not hidden, so its hard to win as hunter but not imposable. If you are in 1.16 or under then and only then can you see and hit hiders 24/7. I have hope that this will be fix cuz I did see strutt20 log on yesterday and gyro has logged on 2 times to fix massive game breaking crash glitches in the last month, one of then happened today. Do better mineplex or one day it will be unplayable..... Oh wait that already happened.
     
    Posted Aug 23, 2022
  3. I don't really play anymore, however here's my take since I'm bored and can do as I please:
    The game is relatively fine, they need to push the updates they've talked about for months now or at least put the maps back into rotation that were removed for being deemed poor in gameplay after years of being staples to the game/community.

    I don't mind the hunter spawn design and if it's a problem just shoot back, leap out and find a different approach, or become TNT hunter and die. Also, pots are pathetically easy to kill, their hitbox is that of a normal block and a majority of players who choose the pot don't realize this, making it very easy to deal with.

    The only reason I quit playing was due to the community, I hope you haven't encountered anything negative as such. Don't let this ruin your experience, the games already hanging by a thread as of late. Anyways, enjoy it while it lasts :)
     
    Posted Sep 2, 2022,
    Last edited Sep 2, 2022
    Widestsinger likes this.
  4. This has sorta been a thing forever. Offensive hiders are not impossible to to get past, and you can always just queue hiders before the game starts for a free win if that's the kinda game you're expecting.
     
    Posted Sep 2, 2022
  5. In other words, let's throw the hunters under the bus because "you can always just queue hiders".

    A tiny, select, group of sweats arguing against all improvements is one of the many reasons for this server's downfall. Look at Draw my Thing for another example of this.
     
    Posted Sep 4, 2022
  6. This is also a problem on bedrock. Hiders spawn kill hunters repeatedly. Hiders are too OP. :angryyoda:
     
    Posted Sep 4, 2022
  7. A lot of the time that isn't even the case. A good percent of the games I play are dominated by hunters. And I'm by no means a sweat.
     
    Posted Sep 5, 2022

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