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Not Planned Shredder Kit Revamp

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by HeyItsAdam, Oct 24, 2018.

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  1. Hello everyone, today I will bring forth a proposed change to the Shredder Kit. These kit change ideas originated from the Game Insights discord, originally coming from Dylan / Cysk, with several other members contributing their ideas in too.

    In short, we believe that Shredder Kit in its current state does not feel like it is able to be used in Turf Wars very well, as the game is simply too fast paced for the kit's support role compared to the two other more offensive kits. Personally, I've always seen Turf Wars as being too fast paced of a game to warrant the ability to have players use support kits rather than kits that directly contribute to the end goal, which is getting more kills than the enemy.

    With some discussion, we were able to bring a 'revamp' to this kit, which will allow it to be able to have a more direct contribution to the game objective while still retaining previous abilities that allow it to be more of a support role than the other kits. These changes will allow Shredder to be a more viable kit for gameplay, where players will be more inclined to use it.

    Please keep in mind that all of the numbers used below are subject to change, nothing is set in stone. These are just what we thought would balance out the kit well.

    Changes:

    Removed the barrage ability, only shoots one arrow per shot.
    Longer reload time (5-6 seconds)
    Wherever the arrow lands, the wool within a radius of the block will be destroyed instantly.
    Radius increases as the bow power increases (1 block radius, 2 block radius, then 3 block radius)
    Players are able to receive damage if the wool next to them breaks, where they would be in the radius (3 hearts possibly)

    That pretty much sums it up, if you have any criticisms or ideas regarding this kit revamp, please make a reply. All and any feedback is greatly appreciated.

    Edit - With the rework, the kit will probably need a new name, please leave name ideas too!
     
    Posted Oct 24, 2018,
    Last edited Oct 25, 2018
  2. Hello there!
    Nice changes, I don't play Turf Wars so much, but I'm glad to see you all are helping the server. Is good to see this kit being more used, I've never used for completing achievements, so sad.

    Have a nice day,
    Killer_2020

    (Like for GI discord)
    --- Post updated ---
    @Vocaloiid @Augend
     
    Posted Oct 24, 2018
  3. Yo,

    I happened to miss this discussion when it was originally in the Game Insights discord, so I'll provide my insight now.

    Personally, I think this final product you guys came up with just seems like Marksman with AoE (Area of Effect) damage (assuming you guys meant it to be a one-shot kill on a direct hit), therefore making Marksman less used. If you guys meant for it to still be a 2 shot at full charge on a direct hit, could you clarify it in the title?

    Besides that, I think it would be cool if you could left-click before shooting and it would change the radius' direction to straightforward (if that's impossible to code my bad) so you could get 3 hearts off of a player if they are standing out of range of the normal AoE, therefore making you still being able to 2 shot them. (One with AoE attack and one with direct hit) For that to happen, the bow would deal 8 hearts fully charged so it would still be a 2 shot but allow you to get those combination hits. (An extra heart in case they regenerated half a heart in the time you can still 2 hit them)

    I definitely do agree with Shredder needing some changes those and I like the AoE idea you guys came up with and think it would be the best solution.
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
  4. Long reload time is going to be what will cause this not to be an overpowered marksman. Like giving infiltrator the same reload as marksman (pretty bad idea), this won’t have the same reload too.

    A direct hit will always be a one shot, just like with other kits.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 25, 2018
    Fall and SpitefulNick like this.
  5. yeah

    as i said in the discord

    shredder's issue was that barrage was actually holding it back. the barrage allowed to it destroy multiple wool blocks with "one" shot, but since it made actually hitting a player even once much easier, it couldn't fairly one shot players. yet both other kits have one shot arrows, making shredder nearly useless in any time of fight in turf wars.
    vs marksman? marksman has faster arrows, though it cant shred wool as well. but you can't kill the marksman easily, even if theyre in the open, while they can one shot you as long as there's an opening.
    vs infiltrator? since you cant kill the infiltrator by the time they reach you, you just die to their swords.

    it can be argued that shredder is a "team" kit, where you support rather than directly help.
    but it's not good at that either. when are wool defenses actively a problem? not very often. they tend to passively get destroyed as the game goes on. though shredder can help in taking out a fort, it's useless after that. it can't help take out the inhabitants. when i played turf wars, i was disappointed whenever i saw a shredder on my own team.

    so. limiting it to one arrow that oneshots players and takes out wool in a radius keeps the wool shredding and makes it actually useful in a game.

    thank you and have a yoloful and lit day, gamers
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
  6. Did you have to take the boring route... I know this won’t effect gameplay, but I think it’ll suit the kit more! I agree with the changes, but there’s more I want to add:

    Change the name to Boomer (or whatever explosive name).

    And

    Give a mini explosion when the arrow lands.

    With this rework, Shredder is a sad name :( and sad names make people sad.
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
  7. In bedrock turf wars there are often people building big defenses and walls, so shredder helps with those, but so many use once and change after that game because they want to help team by taking walls down but also want to be able to kill people and that doesn't happen with shredder, so it's only a team helper.
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
  8. Yeah we were planning for a new name, just forgot to add that
    --- Post updated ---

    Explosions on impact were not well liked, though who knows
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 25, 2018
  9. I wouldn't see that going well for gameplay to be honest. Blocks exploding around you every 2 seconds with flying blocks in your face wouldn't look pleasant.
    Thats the issue, we want people using shredder, however since it's more of a "support" kit, it's never used. We're hoping with this change to make shredder a more used kit
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
    HeyItsAdam likes this.
  10. Um when did Minecraft explosions do that lol? And the reload time is 5-6 seconds so it wouldn’t be every 2 seconds.
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
  11. I was meaning games like Bomb Lobbers etc that when you explode things, blocks go flying. So I'm not sure if you wanted something like that with exploding arrow. It is 5-6 seconds, but if multiple people use it (which is what we're aiming for) it would be around every 2-3 seconds I'm guessing.
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
  12. Personally, I really like these changes. Shredder is really useless in its current state compared to the other kits and it's been that way for as long as I can remember. The only time I've used it or seen other people use it was to get the achievement that requires it. I think these changes seem balanced and would make the kit so much better. It still has the same basic idea, but it's better in practice like this.

    As for the name, I'm no good with coming up with stuff like that, but maybe something like Destroyer, since it's basically destroying the blocks around it. Maybe Demolisher, I don't know.
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
  13. How about shredder kit also has an explosive arrow, like one explosive every 30 seconds, max 1 arrow at a time, and you activate the explosive arrow by getting one special arrow in hotbar, or you tap the bow once like you have to do on survival games when you have TNT kit.
    The discussion would have been good if it was discussed in bedrock general, not just PC general
    --- Post updated ---
    So if explosive arrow is close enough, it will kill, that way people get kills and wall destruction
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
  14. We discussed it in PC general as there are different circumstances with bedrock. Some kits in Java cannot be applied to others. Also, I'm personally against the idea of explosive arrows in Turf Wars, and I stated my reasons why above.
     
    Posted Oct 25, 2018
  15. So if explosive arrow is clos
    Well, my idea is different than other explosive ideas and you only get one arrow, not more, and it was discussed in PC chat but if it gets rolled out it would also be changed on bedrock, for that reason it should be discussed with bedrock as well, not to mention more players on bedrock than Java
     
    Posted Oct 26, 2018
  16. Of course, but that all depends on what Brian and t3 would like to do, so I can't say it would be in bedrock in any way if this kit rolls into Java, but I understand what you mean.
     
    Posted Oct 26, 2018
  17. No, the explosion is just for effects. It doesn’t effect anything else. And I mean small, I actually do. Imagine Deadly Bones (I think that’s what it is called) from SSM. That’s how small the explosion is.
     
    Posted Oct 26, 2018
  18. Well if it's a small explosion like deadly bones, I guess that would be fine, but that's for the others to decide.
     
    Posted Oct 26, 2018
  19. Thread moved to Game Alterations

    Hey there! I have moved your thread to the Game Alterations as it is best suited here. I do appreciate the idea that you have for Turf Wars. I agree with the revamp for the Turf Wars kit, and the Shredder Kit needs to be nerfed from a game. This kit is not useful because it automatically refills the arrows and wools for 4.0 seconds. I believe that the game lasts quickly than usual which it sounds unfair to me. I recently played Turf Wars this morning, and I did an observation during the gameplay.

    Overall, I will have to agree with removing the Shredder kit this time. +1
     
    Posted Apr 6, 2019
  20. Wait why did you move it after 3 months
     
    Posted Apr 6, 2019

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