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In Discussion Removing TnT in First 30(ish) Seconds [HG, SG2]

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by Dulciloquy, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. After a few recent games of SG2, I'm wondering how it's fair that TnT is useable in the first 15-30 seconds of the game. You can run to mid, grab some TnT out of the chest, throw it, and kill 1-8+ people. Those players killed had absolutely no chance at even attempting to play the game.

    The argument against this is that the players could just choose not to go to mid, but I don't feel that's a valid solution. The chests at mid are valuable and while I agree they shouldn't be 100% protected (to keep the risk factor), I don't feel that TnT should be available in these mid chests for players to just get mass kills with no effort.

    It seems to me that the easiest way to ensure there are no spawn deaths due to TnT is to remove their possibility of spawning only in the chests at the middle of the map. This really shouldn't take too much developer time, and the benefit would be that each player gets a more fair chance at at least attempting to be successful in the game.

    Let me know your thoughts! I already argued against myself above so keep that in mind c:
     
    Posted Jul 23, 2019
    Poal, Goudge ✦, Toxcity and 9 others like this.
  2. hey!
    I love this idea! I was just playing SG2 with a friend and died to tnt in my first game at spawn. Disabling tnt in the spawn chests sounds like a great way to counter these deaths.

    Jman442369
     
    Posted Jul 23, 2019
    Dulciloquy likes this.
  3. Hey,
    I'm not much of a Survival Games player; however, I do know where you're coming from.
    Once in a blue moon, I tend to play this game mode (usually to complete a mission or something). And, to be frank, I do find it pretty dumb how 1-8 players are murdered by TNT within the first 5 seconds of the game.
    The TNT item is an extremely powerful item, and can easily 1 hit kill players within a few blocks of it. Thrown down at just the right time and location, and you get 8 free kills right off the bat, despite players having their starting potion effects.
    Though TNT should not be removed from the game (as stated above), TNT should either A. not be usable until kit abilities are enabled or B. not spawn at mid during the first wave of items (so when chests restock, TNT can be found at mid).
    -Dan
     
    Posted Jul 23, 2019,
    Last edited Jul 23, 2019
  4. Howdy,
    I would agree in the sense that tnt should be unusable the first 30 seconds of the game. It is pretty broken and having to wait for a new survival games match after not even being in the game for more than 12 seconds really stinks. I support your position.
     
    Posted Jul 23, 2019
  5. Hey!

    I actually spend a lot of time playing SG, and honestly it does get quite annoying. When someone places TnT in spawn it's really detrimental to the game because players either have to run away and as a result not be able to loot spawn, or die from the explosion. But come to think of it, I think TnT in general needs work done to it in order to be put into good use in Survival Games.

    Outside of spawn, it is rarely used at all. Occasionally, I will be chasing a player and the place TnT down to deter me, however, this doesn't have a huge impact because players are simply able to run past it without taking any damage. I think the timing of the TnT needs to be readjusted, or maybe make it similar to a landmine. That way, if a player is being chased and another player is running after them, once TnT is placed it will detonate after the player gets withing a certain radius of it. This will allow the item to be used more efficiently, and I feel it would be a better fit in the game. It also forces the chaser to either run around it, or absorb some of the damage.

    Currently, when a player spawns in, they don't have any armor, yet they have 14 hearts. But depending on the range (which most likely wont be too far considering everyone is in spawn at the start), it is able to kill a player in one hit. This isn't really fair at all, and a lot of times I find myself to be occupied with looting a chest only to notice the TnT out of the corner of my eye when it is already too late, and die from the explosion. This is way to overpowered in my opinion, and a more realistic damage set on the TnT should deal about 3/4 of your health (with 10 hearts, leaving the player with 2.5 hearts) when standing directly on it. This doesn't completely eliminate the player, gives them time to react and leave, but still hinders them. And of course, the amount of damage it does would depend on armor and range.

    Apologies for adding a bit of my personal beliefs on your suggestion. I 100% agree with you on this, but I feel like some more work needs to be done to TnT in general as well in order to give it some use that will be effective later in-game. Huge +1
     
    Posted Jul 23, 2019
    Noviah likes this.
  6. This should be featured
    Because of that. It is really unfair and doesn't require skill to kill a big amount of players just in few seconds.
    +1
     
    Posted Jul 23, 2019
    Noviah likes this.
  7. I'm actually all for this idea. Being someone that's been playing Survival Games / SG2 lately, I can definitely empathize with you on how frustrating it can be to have the game begin and die not even fifteen seconds into the game due to someone getting TnT from a middle chest and immediately throwing it down. I agree with having something to limit TnT being placed in the beginning of the game. Your idea of removing TnT from middle chests could work, but I know I personally use it to deter people when following me and having it in the beginning of the game could come to great use. I wouldn't mind having something like your idea in place, but to me, it would just be easier if no TnT was allowed to be placed within the first 30 or so seconds of the game. This way, it makes it easier for players to last and be able to make it out of spawn more easily without dying due to an explosion not even ten seconds in, but it still lets people to begin collecting TnT to start using it once the grace period is up, kind of like what it is with all the kits in the game

    This is currently a big issue from all the games I've personally been in lately, and I hope something can be done to counter this issue.
     
    Posted Jul 23, 2019
    Noviah and MiladKhan like this.
  8. I was wondering if anyone else has an opinion on this?
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 21, 2019
  9. Hey there!

    I can see why TNT throwing early game in survival games can be very annoying, particularly within the first 10 seconds of people looting. I'm not entirely sure of my view upon it, because quite frankly I do take advantage of this to earn more kills for experience and to eliminate players quickly. Furthermore, the "Bloodlust" achievement is much more achievable via throwing TNT at spawn. However, I do agree that perhaps TNT has a cool down of 15 seconds or so, to allow people to loot at spawn, and be given the option of running with their loot, or taking the chances to fight with what they have looted. That way, I can see how TNT could be more useful and slightly more balanced, as it instantly kills players, ruining game experiences.

    Overall, I suggest adding a timer of 10-15 seconds rather than removing TNT, as kits such as bomber don't actually receive their TNT until 30 seconds or so into the game. Hopefully you can try and get where I'm coming from!

    4G0
     
    Posted Aug 21, 2019
  10. Hey!


    I'm going to agree with you here, I don't think TNT should be enabled for the first 15-20 seconds of the game. I've learned to become more cautious of it, but in the past, I died countless times to TNT within the first 10-20 seconds of the game. If I were a new player coming to Mineplex and trying to play survival games, getting TNT launched at me within the first few seconds of the game would not leave a pleasant image of Mineplex's Survival games. I think the best way of going about this is just disabling the use of TNT for the first 20 seconds of the game. This would prevent them from using the TNT directly at the start of the game and getting a multitude of free kills for little work but still allow TNT to be found at middle and used at a later point in the game. I'm going to give this a +1.
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019
  11. I've already stated my thoughts on this on the Game Insights Discord, but I'll post them here too because why not.

    Going to mid at the start of the game is inheritably risky, you go there to try and pick up an item you can't find elsewhere outside of a supply drop, at the risk of getting killed, and TNT is part of that risk in my opinion. Frankly, the TNT shouldn't even be that hard to avoid, it takes multiple seconds to explode and visually is pretty obvious (assuming you're not looting a chest at that time). Optimally you wouldn't be wanting to hang around at mid any longer than you have to in the first place, and really that time shouldn't be any longer than the time it takes for someone to grab a TNT, throw it, and have it explode. And do not forget about the grace buff either, which makes it even harder to kill someone with TNT than usual, plus it will leave the user without the speed bonus if the TNT happens to hit someone.

    I will note it is very rare for someone to get above two kills with a spawn TNT, and is probably realistically impossible to get a number as high as 8 on some maps (on a side note, I wonder if the reason you chose the number 8 is my fault).

    Bombers are given their first TNT 15-20 seconds in and that's not an issue as far as I'm aware, so bumping it up to 30 seconds would be too severe.

    I'm not that big a fan of the landmine idea, but I would support a readjustment to how long it takes for a TNT to explode, I feel it takes too long at the moment. Of course, if the timing was readjusted I'd be a little bit more in favour of Dul's idea, since it's harder to avoid.

    If you thought TNT was underused enough, reducing the damage like this honestly would kill it as an item. It's hard enough to use efficiently (outside of certain specific situations) as it is, but to know it wouldn't be able to finish off an opponent would probably kill off all use it currently has, so a very big no for this idea.

    -------------

    TLDR I can see the argument for this being implemented, but I'm going to have to disagree on it.
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019,
    Last edited Aug 22, 2019
  12. Hey,

    I can see quite the mixed opinions from the above posters, and that's fair enough because we all have our own opinions along with reasons whether we agree or disagree with your suggestion. I personally agree with your suggestion. Although like others have said, going to the middle is supposed to be a risk, and that's your choice, I just feel as though TNT should be enabled after everyone has had enough time to loot the chests and leave spawn.

    Some newer players or people who don't play Mineplex often may not know that TNT is enabled in SG at all, so this would be very unfortunate if they were to die straight away. If you want to kill people with TNT, there is plenty in the chests across the map, or purchase the Bomber class! I have recently been more cautious if and when I go to the middle in case other players throw TNT, it's a quick end to a game that you may have been waiting for a while. Kit abilities aren't enabled at the beginning, so why not add TNT to the list! It's a +1 from me! :)
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019
    Noviah likes this.
  13. While there are some mixed opinion on this idea, I’d have to agree with removing TNT from the mid-chest. If I ever grab lots of stuff from the chests, but the other player already dropped the TNT in the mid, I’d died in-game instantly. It wastes my time to redo all over again by going to another Survival Games server. From my experience, I’d never encountered a situation before, but I avoid staying in the mid for a longer period of time. I really want to see the change in Survival Games, and make it fair to all newer players in the server. +1

    I’d never used TNT kit for a long time, but I do think there’s a cooldown right when the game has started. This prevents players from dropping the TNT right away while we have temporary speed ability. Don’t get me wrong because I never played Survival Games and using TNT kit for a while.
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019
    Noviah and 4G0 like this.
  14. I just be careful of people throwing tnt at spawn. If you grab just 1 chest and run away you shouldn't die to it. When I get it I can sometimes get up to 4 kills with it but it depends on how many people pay attention to it and run away.
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019
  15. Herro!

    Personally I don't like this idea. I love SG, and I understand it could be frustrating to be killed in the first few seconds, but it shouldn't be removed. Mid is meant to be risky, and that's just one of the ways you can be killed. Personally I don't get killed by TNT much, as it's pretty obvious in your screen and isn't that hard to escape given its explosion time. Removing this as a risk from mid would cause mid to be practically risk free at this point, considering the speed boost you get if you don't attack. I also would add the speed boost makes the TNT even easier to escape from.

    I don't like the idea of removing any form of risk from middle, so -1 from me.
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019
    Animalll likes this.
  16. Everyone has equal chance at running and if you don’t pay attention, then you deserve to go boom. TNT doesn’t give doesn’t give someone less of a chance of winning (unless you die of course, which then that logic could be applied to all weapons.)

    Going to mid already doesn’t have many risks. Rarely you get killed by melee if you keep running, otherwise that’s just a PSI. TNT is one of the only risks at mid and I think they should stay without a beginning cooldown.
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019
    Mr_Ant87 likes this.
  17. MMM yes the joy of losing your only teammate you can have early in a SG match just the excitement overwhelms me and totally couldn't be mitigated by reverting SG2 to regular SG.
    All sarcasm aside, I do believe that it would be nice to have a non-use time for the first little bit.
    Though I believe that it would be better if there was something like Resistance 2 for the first 30 seconds was added.
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019
  18. I agree with this idea! It is so unfair to die in the beginning. It is very over powered. And for those saying it’s risky, middle is risky without the tnt. Multiple people die in the beginning anyways.


    +1
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019
  19. Holaaaa

    As a Sg player myself I know the struggles of dying to middle tnt, but I don’t believe it should be removed. As said in other post I believe TNT helps keep the high risk factor in going to mid. Knowing you could get killed off the bat by TNT allows players to grab the quick essentials and leave middle fast. I’ve only really seen people die from middle TNT if they stay to long so I don’t think it’s a big problem. Also the fact that you get speed off of spawn helps you in the case if a tnt is dropped and you notice it. All in all I get your frustration but don’t think it needs to be removed.
     
    Posted Aug 22, 2019
    Animalll and Danese like this.
  20. I don’t think it would hurt to add a short cool-down.

    15 seconds is good in my opinion. It’s enough time for people to grab stuff and go without being hit by TNT. Anything longer then that is a bit too much.
    Although the TNT does take a couple seconds to explode, it still isn’t really fair in my opinion. If you’re searching through chests you probably won’t even see the TNT ignite, which would give someone an easy chance to kill multiple people instantly. They wouldn’t be able to play the game at all.

    I can see why people might argue to keep it the way it is since it adds a risk factor at the beginning. Honestly, I think going to the middle is already pretty risky. I think the TNT does add to the risk factor, but you’ll also usually see people immediately start killing others at the middle once they grab a weapon.

    +.5
     
    Posted Aug 23, 2019,
    Last edited Aug 23, 2019
    Toxcity likes this.

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