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Remove Assassin

Discussion in 'Clans' started by Aetheism, May 22, 2019.

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Next season, have a single server without assassin.

  1. Yes (tell us why)

    32 vote(s)
    53.3%
  2. No (tell us why)

    26 vote(s)
    43.3%
  3. Undecided (tell us why)

    2 vote(s)
    3.3%
  1. Whether it be as a joke or a raging screech, I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Remove Assassin". While this may seem extreme, it could be a concept worth exploring. Assassin has more or less dominated the meta since season one, where the invisibility glitch allowed the kit to have an unprecedented advantage over other players. This idea of an unfair advantage has been associated with the kit ever since, with abuse of its overpowered abilities leading to a less skill-based meta.

    Assassin, by nature, has an incredible advantage over other kits. Assassin's mobility, along with smoke bomb/recall, allow it to control engagement. This means that in any given situation, an assassin can completely avoid a fight. In the situation of an assassin fighting a knight, or even four knights, the assassin has complete control over the situation, making knight effectively useless in most engagements. This advantage becomes more apparent when you take into account situations of third-partying. If a knight gets a kill, they're left out in the open, a sitting duck for an assassin to come and clean. The cleaning assassin in this situation would be able to quickly and safely leave, even if being chased.

    With the reintroduction of smoke bomb and illusion, Mineplex made the mistake of giving a ~.5 second window of time where the assassin is completely invincible, but also capable of dealing damage. This, combined with rampant cheating, and the issues mentioned before, create what could be considered an unenjoyable meta.

    I propose the harmless idea of having one clans server without assassin. This, as an experiment, would give insight into how people view the current meta, and show what an alternative one would look like. Even in the worst-case scenario of players abandoning the server, the game would be fine.

    I'm sure you've wondered what clans would be like without assassin, and I believe that this question could be answered. Personally, I think that clans would revert to the meta of alpha and early beta, with massive team fights composed of a variety of kits each serving a purpose, instead of just a dogpile of cheating assassins.
     
    Posted May 22, 2019,
    Last edited May 22, 2019
    Starx280, neropatti and PapiKirito like this.
  2. I like the sound of this, though I think they should just nerf assassin and fix it's bugs rather than having a server without it. If they don't do that, then I'm all on board for an assassinless server. It genuinely makes the game "un-fun" having to deal with sins and their broken skills.
     
    Posted May 22, 2019
    Starx280 likes this.
  3. Realistically, assassin isn't going to be fixed, and either way, this doesn't stop assassin from being fixed. As I said before, there's 0 downside to doing this.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted May 22, 2019
  4. I'm not sure how I feel about this. I wouldn't like to see it completely removed, assassin is a mainstay in clans as you said, and it always will be. May I suggest a different way of solving the problem: To temporarily disable assassin until it's thoroughly tested and re-balanced. Temp removal of a broken item/kit isn't uncommon in games either, so I could see this actually happening. I think there's way too many people who would not agree with the idea of of entirely removing the kit. I do agree with you in the sense that something needs to be done. It's not a lot of fun to play other kits when one is a lot more stronger.
     
    Posted May 22, 2019
    Starx280 likes this.
  5. I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding what I'm saying here. A server without assassin, for the sake of novelty alone, would attract a lot of players. I personally know of ~50 people who would come back just to play this. Clans needs radical change, and a single server without assassin wouldn't stop any balance patches or reworks from happening
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted May 22, 2019
    Starx280 likes this.
  6. Ah, I get what you mean now. I'd be pretty okay with that actually, but I feel like it would split clans even more than it already is. It's a good idea, but it just really depends on if Mineplex wants to take the risk. It's a similar situation with people who suggest stuff like solo cake wars. It's really hard to sustain consistent numbers. With a game-mode like clans, where a lot of the population is on C-4 and C-7, and some servers are completely empty, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to do something like an experimental server. I'd be down for it though. Sorry for the misunderstanding with my first response.
     
    Posted May 22, 2019
  7. Assassin over-centralizes the meta. Would be interesting to see what happens without it.
     
    Posted May 22, 2019
    Starx280 likes this.
  8. Nerfing Assassin is problematic because we don't get separate Champions and Clans patches. Assassin is actually somewhat weak in Domination right now if you remove the glitches, and nerfs to it just make it worse. Glitches should be fixed, but we've been waiting for a year and a half on some of them and so far nothing has been fixed so...
     
    Posted May 23, 2019
  9. no, because this would take away players from regular servers. It would move many power clans onto this server, which would make the regular servers less populated. There would be no solo clans and it would be a lot harder for clans to gain, so no again
     
    Posted May 25, 2019
  10. I believe I have the solution which will not take up much dev time while also keeping assassin in the game.

    Removing illusion/smokebomb would fix most of the issues with assassin. Both skills are overpowered in clans, and tanks have no way to fight them. These two skills are suited for a dominate environment where the players are supposed to capture points, this is not the case in clans. Both skills give you a form of melee invulnerability which makes it impossible for tanks to fight against. By removing these two skills the only options left are evade and recall which have been fixed/nerfed in the previous patch. Recall has been fixed so if the player is slowed, the player will only teleport back 2 blocks instead of 6. And the invulnerability frames of evade have been nerfed in the previous patch as well, so if assassin loses illusion and smokebomb, assassin won't be able to take on heavies as easily as before which will open up room for other classes in clans.
     
    Posted May 26, 2019
    Starx280 likes this.
  11. +1

    It's easy to get multiple hits with illusion and smoke bomb. Along with their mobility, assassins can kill and run easily. Tanks can't escape as easily, or outhit assassins.

    People have began using NoSlowdown in illusion to their advantage. And speeding in smoke bomb. I think staff are not able to see the actual player while they are using illusion and smoke bomb allowing them to get away with it. Removing these 2 abilities will heavily change how assassins play and the meta.
     
    Posted May 26, 2019
    Starx280 likes this.
  12. We aren't going to be removing any kits. Removing assassin because it's good, is like if we removed skill tables because people were using them to dupe gold, it's total overkill. Now that we have a full time clans dev in the form of @mepman9, updates are going to be more common, and those updates are mainly going to consist of things like bug fixes and kit balancing. Personally, I'd like if we could have a beta server that requires 60+ hours of clans time, for us to test out some smaller updates such as bug fixes and kit balancing, but to my knowledge, that's not going to happen any time soon.
     
    Posted May 26, 2019
    Vinrez and Waify like this.
  13. Really like this idea. I think one of the biggest differences between the early stages of clans and the current stage is diversity of kits. With everyone running assassin, the game becomes repetitive, and extremely frustrating when you know someone has an unfair advantage that you can do nothing about.

    I would like to propose a suggestion to your original idea. Personally, I think making assassin Armour (on the assassin free server) available extremely rarely from travelling merchants may be a more viable option. This would create a VERY limited supply of assassin throughout the server while also creating a mainstream use for finding and trading with travelling merchants. With a limited supply of assassin, cheating will not be as easily hidden (as closet cheating is much easier to identify with the kits other than assassin). Let me know if I can help you keep your idea progressing in any way,

    Jonah
     
    Posted May 26, 2019
    Starx280 likes this.
  14. I worry that the implementation of this idea would only further split the champions community. I don’t believe the solution to assassin is removing it from a server and playing without it, I believe some serious testing and changes to the kit should occur. Assassin has the potential to be a fun and balanced kit, it just needs some work.
     
    Posted May 26, 2019
  15. I strongly dislike the assassin kit due to many of the reasons previously stated. I have quit for about 2 years and have no intentions of coming back. This change would definitely make me want to start playing again, even if it was just 1 server out of the 10 or so.
     
    Posted May 27, 2019
  16. Bad analogy.

    Removing skill tables: Nobody can change kits

    Removing assassin: You can now play other classes than assassin

    If we get fixes and assassin actually gets balanced, then fine. But if over 80% of the server plays one class it's a sign of an unhealthy meta.
     
    Posted May 28, 2019
    Starx280 and PapiKirito like this.
  17. I'd say just remove on aspect of assassin, because the class has both dps AND crazy mobility. I think they should keep the dps, hence the name of assassin, but nerf the mobility to the ground

    Annnd get the crazy glitches fixed

    And buff mage :D
     
    Posted May 28, 2019
  18. I honestly agree with this tanks had way more chances to fight before illu and smoke bomb came out and that would also fix illu glitch just by removing them both because they are broken
     
    Posted May 31, 2019
  19. That would be awesome, a server with the single largest problem removed. I'd play on an assassin-less server.
     
    Posted Jun 5, 2019
    Starx280 likes this.
  20. I barely play clans often, however I see where your going from here. The assassin kit is way too overpowered! Whether it is the bow spam you receive from users, or just their kit abilities in general, assassin is way too overpowered. Having an assassin-free server won't be such a bad idea, however the devs won't have too work too hard on a whole new server without assassin when they can just nerf the kit. So I'm sort of on the fence, but also on your side, so I'll have to give this idea a +0.42
     
    Posted Jun 5, 2019
    Starx280 likes this.

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