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Regarding Stat Boosting

Discussion in 'Server Discussion' started by C2MineCraft, Apr 24, 2021.

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Should this be implemented

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Hello, i am here to regard The issue with the stat Boosting rule. The issue with it is Stat boosting to Mineplex terms is joining a game with your alts and then using them to win games. But what i am here to say is to add to the rule when people have hackers on their teams in their parties and its blatant hacking such as Bhop Ka Speed etc. Also if you say just report the hacker that does not work they come back on a alt and start to hack again. Now ways you can do this are simple check the chat logs to see if their in their party and then watch to seem if they continue to have a blatant hacker through games and if they do go with the procedure for stat boosting.
     
    Posted Apr 24, 2021
    Xukuwu, primitlve, mab8400 and 3 others like this.
  2. The loophole here is that for example if I am playing CW by myself and I have two regular players and hacker on my team, and the hacker on my team is in a party with one of my other teammates, the other teammate(not in the party) and myself(not in the party), who were randomly assigned to the team should not be punished.
     
    Posted Apr 24, 2021
    MARKTHENUB™, Danese and outlloved like this.
  3. It would need a lot of evidence to prove, so that a scenario such as the one above doesn’t result in players being falsely punished, but I definitely agree that intentionally boosting with cheaters should be punishable is sufficient evidence is present. Whether you’re the one cheating or not doesn’t change that you’re still benefiting from cheats and the stats you’re earning by doing so aren’t legit.
     
    Posted Apr 24, 2021
    Paladise and Xukuwu like this.
  4. Unfortunately this is not punishable. Personally I would have thought that if you can gather enough evidence which would include one person playing with one blatant hacker over and over again, and then if they end up getting banned then they play with another blatant hacker over and over again, and you can prove the blatant hackers are all on one ip (so it's someone playing with their friend), it should seriously be punishable. But alas, it is not.

    I brought this up with RC a while back and this is the response I got from Toki as to why no exceptions are made, why the player that isn't hacking won't be punished for stat boosting:

    "The hacker is the one causing the issue here, and while if someone knowingly parties a hacker with the intent to get free wins they can get a few, the hacker should always be top priority to ban asap rather than waiting it out to see if they do it multiple times or if the same person keeps coming back to do it multiple times. There's something else that was mentioned that I feel should be and that's the knowledge from the player teaming with the hacker. I don't know about you lot but I see a lot of hackers get banned and then complain that either GWEN or a staff member falsely banned them. Now if you're the friend of this person, and you didn't actually see them hacking yourself then you're very likely going to be believing your friend in the case that they got "falsely banned". This could happen a few times and I'd still like to say some people would continue trusting their friend when they say they didn't hack and they keep getting falsely banned on alts. Now in this sort of case, if a staff member was spectating and gathered the evidence, and reported it to RC for a stat boosting ban, false punishments are fairly likely to be handed out. We can't force people to report when there's a hacker, and I'd like to argue that the people that even know about a hacker and choose not to report it cause as much damage as the people that have a hacker on their team/party. I'm almost positive that everyone has at one point gotten a win because a hacker was on your team. In the people's case that play the server regularly, you've probably gotten more than a couple dozen. Now, the objective of the game is to win, is it really fair to ask a player to take a loss just because the hacker wound up on their team or they'd be banned? I get that stat boosting can suck, but there's a lot of issues with banning people that didn't actually hack, essentially for someone else hacking."
     
    Posted Apr 24, 2021
  5. "Whether you’re the one cheating or not doesn’t change that you’re still benefiting from cheats and the stats you’re earning by doing so aren’t legit." It may not be your fault that your stats aren't legit, because you may be going to the greatest extent to play fairly, and it may still look like you are in a party with a hacker. If Red, Blue, and yellow are all 4 person party/teams, and you are on green with the scenario I mentioned above, and you try to report the hacker and for 2-3 hours nothing happens because no staff notice or available to deal with it, it's not your fault your stats aren't legit. If this were to be added to definition of stat boosting I think it is important that it is determined who is and isn't in the party. Just because you have 10 wins in a team game that aren't legit (but you wanted them to be earned) I don't believe warrants a punishment being issued.
     
    Posted Apr 24, 2021
  6. Not what i mean what i mean is a team of people knowingly that they have a blatant hacker on there team for multiple games not for someone who just ends up on a team with a hacker as that should not be bannable Only if they are partied for multiple games.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 24, 2021
  7. i dont know alot about how mp's staff system works but im almost postive that they can see chat logs which means they can check the logs to see if said hacker are in the party and has ben in the party for multiple games.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 24, 2021
    maevestarbaby likes this.
  8. Yes i see what you mean by this but if im not wrong mods can check chat logs which means they can see who is in the party with said hacker and only ban them and not the other players.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 24, 2021
  9. Sorry for the late reply i looked over it on accident but yes it would take evidence to prove. i agree with that 100% also you make good points with your second point thanks for the input!
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 27, 2021
    anthxny likes this.
  10. To be honest, it isn’t a bad idea. Of course, trying to detect if someones in a party or not is a bit difficult but there are more scenarios. Like, for example, if the player is intentionally following the hacker and helping him rush a team on cake wars that should be good. evidence. Like, if someone wasn’t teaming with a hacker, they would back off and let the hacker do things on is own until he’s banned. I feel that should count as stat boosting since you aren’t winning legitimately.

    also, other servers have this rule, and I know mineplex is their own server, but it still is an effective rule that would help.

    But, I’ll play devils advocate real quick. I guess to get fair, even if the legit player teams with a hacker, I feel the hacker would have the power to ruin everyone’s game play with just a push of a button. In reality, if the legit player who’s teaming with the hacker helps the hacker, I don’t feel it would make too much of a difference if the hacker has the power to destroy a whole team with just one setting. So, the legit player would be the one using his skills to try to win the game while the hacker is using unfair advantage to win the game. So, I could see what you are trying to get as.
     
    Posted May 1, 2021,
    Last edited May 1, 2021
  11. I... don't like this idea. The goals listed in the post (IE trying to create an environment wherein groups of players playing with / using a friend/alt to hack in a game are no longer able to create such a negative impact on the games that they play on) doesn't feel worth the "acceptable losses" of innocent players. These "acceptable losses" seem far greater than those who meet the intended criteria, considering the amount of variables at play that can cause innocent players to be banned.
    When it comes to blatant hacks, there is only one factor that can be answered with a straight forward yes or no answer: are they hacking. When a b-hopper single handedly kills an entire Microbattles lobby, the above criteria is met with no middle ground to work on.
    However, in the type of scenario being described in this post, there are MANY factors to consider. It's not a yes or no answer, and reaching the necessary criteria using video evidence makes many assumptions on the part of RC that may not be held true. And while these assumptions, individually, may be true (is the player constantly on a team with a hacker, are they and the hacker friends, do they know that their friend is legitimately hacking, etc.), there are many other external factors that create a level of uncertainty above what can be considered reasonable (is their friend telling them "they don't hack" and that "MP keeps false banning me," are they actually associated with one another [games of bridges create environments where this rule could end up banning up to 12 players due to a consistent hacker: are all 12 of them in on it?], and, above all else, is the person hacking actually hacking and is it not actually an issue with GWEN).
    The last uncertainty is something I need all of you to understand clearly: GWEN is not omnipotent. I have two false GWEN bans on my record with accepted appeals for being "unjustified," and there have been many a bug in the past where doing something seemingly normal continues to get a player kicked. Is getting kicked being banned? No. Will players try to fill out reports under this notion due to GWEN kicking the same person repeatedly (and making RC's life miserable)? Well... join any game of Cake Wars for a few hours and pay attention to the chat. You'll eventually see this as an absolute yes.
    And while many of these bugs have since been patched, there are several that haven't (though they do rarely appear). For instance, standing on a redstone comparator will make GWEN immediately kick you for suspicions movement. Why don't we see this often? Literally every single live map has had fixes made to them completely removing comparators. Believe me, I know (check my tag lol). Meanwhile, games like Microbattles simply have this feature disabled and/or simply have GWEN disabled all together (let's be honest, what will hacking in BLD do?)
    TL;DR
    The uncertainly value when making these combined assumptions is far above the reasonable level needed to make this work effectively and fairly.
    -Dan
     
    Posted May 1, 2021
  12. I agree with most of the replies on this thread, and since they already explained in depth what the problem with this is, I'm just going to simplify why this wouldn't work even though someone probably already phrased it like that:
    I'm playing with a friend, and he asks me if he can invite a friend of his that I don't know to the party and let him play with us. I say sure, of course, and he goes on to invite the friend of his. We join a game, and that friend of his happens to be blatantly cheating, and he also happens to be in my party without me knowing that he cheats. If what you suggested was to be implemented, I would be punished unfairly. When making rules for anything, not just this server, you have to consider facts and nothing but the facts, assuming whether or not I knew the person in my party was cheating simply isn't fair nor practical.
    Having said that, I understand that it can be frustrating to see other people teaming with cheaters, but unfortunately, reporting the person cheating is as much as we're able to do as you already probably know.
    EDIT: This can happen multiple games in a row as well, I may not be paying attention to my teammate and he could go on to hack multiple games in my party without me noticing, especially if he's using something not as blatant as fly hacking or b-hopping, something like kill aura or anti knockback. I think staff should be certain about the rule being broken when punishing a player for it, and it's extremely hard to be 100% certain about something like this.
     
    Posted May 1, 2021,
    Last edited May 1, 2021
  13. Exactly why it should be observed over two or three games because if after one game you stay in the person with someone blatantly cheating in your game you can leave the party before the second game starts and therefor you wont be punished also im only refering to blatant hacks not things like Reach and AntiKB because they are extremely hard to trace. but as i stated if there is a blatant hacker that someone else invites and you realize that they are hacking you can leave the party after a game that they joined your party.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted May 1, 2021
  14. the thing is this would not be designed as a GWEN ban more of a staff member who has ben watching for multiple games and paying attention to pchats to decifer if they mean to have the hacker in their party
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted May 1, 2021
  15. ...my point explains this in great detail.
     
    Posted May 1, 2021

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