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In Discussion Reevaluate the Mineplex Chat Rules

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by Attractive, Jun 15, 2019.

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Should Mineplex change what they're muting for / Make the chat restrictions less harsh?

Poll closed Jun 22, 2019.
  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    43.8%
  2. No

    8 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. I don't know

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. I believe that Mineplex needs to reevaluate what they're muting for, as well as how harsh the punishments are for first-time offenders as well as repeat offenders. I came back to the Mineplex Community just a few weeks ago, and being muted is almost a lifestyle for many players I've met.

    • A majority of the active Mineplex Java Edition players are older, and have played the game long enough to know that some people are just rude, Mineplex used to be the home of much younger players, I joined when I was 13, but that's just not the playerbase today, and it hasn't been for months.

    • Most of the Mineplex players that are extremely young are playing on Bedrock edition, the version of Minecraft built for younger players. I support strict chat restrictions and filtering on the Bedrock Edition of Mineplex, but not on Java Edition.

    • If you're under 13, you can't even create a Mojang account, your parents shouldn't be making you a Mojang account if they don't know the risks they're taking by giving you access to chat with strangers across the world.

    • I understand Mineplex's intentions for having such strict filters and punishments, the Staff Team also needs to realize that the playerbase has changed, it's not the little kids that are bringing in the money or populating the server, it's the older players that stay with Mineplex because they genuinely enjoy the environment.

    • Mineplex doesn't even use IP-Mutes, meaning if a player decides to be racist in Lobby 1 and they're muted, they can just hop on an alt from a free alt list and do it all over again. It's one thing to strictly enforce rules, but it's another thing to not fully enforce them for an entire IP, you're just asking for backlash once a person is muted.

    • "General Rudeness" is the rule that gets the most players muted, there's a huge difference between Banter and Targeting that the Staff Members need to begin looking for. (I'm not trying to Slander the Staff Team because I understand that they have no control over the rules that they're in charge of enforcing)

    • If you want to protect the younger children from how older players act, then maybe you shouldn't allow ecouples to openly flirt with each other and make suggestive comments in Lobby 1. You get muted for calling someone ugly but not for openly edating.

    If anything, not having to mute players for every little snarky comment would help out the Staff Team as well, this would make their jobs a whole lot easier.
    Mineplex needs to pick their battles with the evolution of their current playerbase, and muting players for saying things like "You annoy me" doesn't make anyone's lives any easier.
     
    Posted Jun 15, 2019
    Karrrrl124, whatsup34 and Jaekub like this.
  2. Hiya!

    I see what you mean with the community changing and how the rules haven’t adapted with it, and I agree. The rules are more geared towards kids, and most kids follow the trends, and Minecraft isn’t the trend right now. A majority of Mineplex players are thirteen and up but back in 2015 they were mostly 7-8. Overall I do believe the chat rules need a revamp.
    So +1.

    Have a good day!
    WackityQuack
     
    Posted Jun 15, 2019
    Attractive likes this.
  3. Hey! I agree that mineplex's player base ranges now 13+, the rules initially set where made back when the main player base was 7-12 years old. I do thing some minor changes could be made to the system.

    +1
     
    Posted Jun 15, 2019
    Attractive likes this.
  4. A lot of this is my opinion, but generally giving you a different insight as an ex-staff member.

    Stating this does not really mean much, I've had a couple of players I muted more than once and they had a hefty history. They intend to do this, they do it on purpose. The rules are only easy to break if you're intending to break them.
    I do somewhat agree with the majority of players being older now however I'm going to have to disagree regarding the change in playerbase. Mineplex still receives a lot and when I say a lot although I do not have the numbers I mean a lot of unique joins per month and a lot if not most of those are kids. I see that throughout multiple games just through the general vibe of conversations, I do believe you got this stance by simply monitoring or being active in Lobby-1: Lobby-1 is full of older players just there for a chat, but once you start playing multiple different games and going around you'll see that the playerbase isn't that different than what it use to be.
    A lot of games are legally obliged to not permit under 13 year-olds to create accounts just because of the legal challenges they may face. And with that, it still does not ward off 7-8 year olds from getting accounts as I don't even think most parents bother to read the terms of service or mojang's EULA. Just to note, I have not double-checked on the 13-year-old thing just going based off what you said.
    These two points are assumptions. We don't really know the age range of concurrent or new donators, but my bet would be that they're mostly kids. Also Mineplex has a method of dealing with alt accounts.
    We cannot go with assumptions as we do not know what rule gets most players muted and that's irrelevant anyways. Targeting someone specific and being rude to them especially when they tell you stop can be punishable under general harassment which is an even higher offense, so staff members do have a guideline to differ targeting and generally being rude. I'm not going to get into "banter" much, you can say a friendly remark to your friend without being rude or breaking the rules.
    Although I find edating to be a bit annoying and don't understand how it originated haha, but it's not something that generally causes a negative. If "suggestive comments" you speak of are indeed ***ual in any way, it is punishable through many means.
    I don't believe a player can be muted for simply saying "you annoy me" so it doesn't look good on your argument if you simply add in anything false.

    In conclusion, I just wanted to debunk some of the things that we simply do not know and give you my opinion on them. I think the current rules have no issues and work good with Mineplex as they always have but as usual they will always need updating and checking here and there. If you disagree then you can simply write to a rules committee member, you can find them via the punishment guidelines. One rule I do disagree with is "hackusating" but there's no need to get into that here.
    Feel free to PM me for any clarification or help.
     
    Posted Jun 15, 2019
    Vocaloiid likes this.
  5. I get your intentions aren’t bad, but I feel like you’re basing it more on your limited personal experience (and your friends) without really knowing much about statistics and what happens behind the scenes.

    There are some points that contradict each other, so allow me to say a couple of things.
    As an ex staff, I have to say that majority of severity one chat offenses not only require a prior warning first, but they are based on a case by case scenario, where the staff member can decide to be more lenient or not. Speaking for myself, while at the very beginning of my staff experience I would try to enforce rules as much as I could, towards half/end of my staff journey, I started being way more lenient, giving people the opportunity to act better through verbal warnings before anything, because some people just tend to forget they’re not just among friends.

    Now, Mineplex is probably the most lenient server punishment wise. You might thing that the duration of a punishment is too long. Well, quick survey around other major servers and you’ll notice that by the time you get like a 5th mute for the same repeated offense, you’re permanently mute, whether it’s for spam or something more major. Keep in mind Mineplex will never really perma mute for offenses like severity ones, unless they consider applying a mute for community disruption (but then again, you need to be extremely toxic and it’s discussed among all admins before having that punishment applied on your account).

    The whole edating punishment is a bit harsh imo. There are so many ways people can act, and that’s just irl too. You may have people being cringey and disgusting, and you may have people being respectful and nice towards others, but that doesn’t mean you gotta get them all muted just because they’re edating lol. If anything, consider that the Inappropriate behavior rule is in place, and anything borderline inappropriate can be punished, so like making ***ual jokes of any kind, or saying something that shouldn’t be said in public.

    I do agree though about the IP mute for any high offense, however that could go south easily, hence why Mineplex is leaning towards applying the least amount of IP bans as possible. You never know if the IP is shared by more than one player, let alone if it’s a public IP. For all we know, punishments are mainly per account and not per person, so I don’t think this will ever be a thing. If anything, an IP punishment should be applied to those seriously ruining other people’s experience over and over with alts, but this is what Mineplex is going for with the anti-VPN decision.

    Overall, I personally find myself against your ideas and topics brought up for the most part. As for myself, I don’t think I punished people for General Rudeness the most. If anything, it was probably for Filter Bypass truth be told, but I guess it was just me.

    I want to cover a couple more things before leaving. One being /report and taking screenshots of chat offenses. While you may think it’s staff focusing more on chat offenses, it’s actually way easier for staff to track them and for players to report them on the forums. The issue with banning people for cheating for example is that you either need a staff member to witness the player in the act, which can’t always happen due to the very limited amount of staff compared to past numbers, on top of players needing video evidence to report on the forums. I personally don’t really upload videos of people cheating because 1. There’s no point in doing that when the person has multiple alts to do that on, and there’s no IP ban (temporary or permanent), and 2. I have issues with my WiFi and computer (being I lost my editing software due to a computer update which can only be fixed by paying over 100 dollars, and my upload speed being as slow as a snail). The motivation for most players isn’t high when these are the premises, but let’s also not forget that something as simple as /report for chat offenses saves chat logs, which are easier to check even after some time has passed, or the player is offline. So you can see why it’s easier in a way for staff to punish for chat offenses instead of for stuff like cheating or other types of offenses.

    Last but not least, Mineplex has always tagged themselves as a family friendly company that allows people of any age to have a good time on the server, and by doing so they enforce rules that could improve the experience of the younger ones too.
    If you think a specific rule should change, going to RC or Toki (being the Rules Committee Lead) would be the best way to go, as long as you provide sufficient reasons and are ready to go in for some sort of debate. However, for the time being, I think most rules in place should be kept just as they are, especially something like General Rudeness. Whether staff want to be more lenient or not, that’s on them when it comes to severity one punishments, but that doesn’t mean the rule should be eradicated, at least imo.
     
    Posted Jun 15, 2019
    PapaMatt, Nicodami, Toki and 3 others like this.
  6. I love constructive feedback! However, I disagree with most of your suggestions.
    There's really no data to back up these claims. You can make judgements based on how you see people interacting, but we don't have an accurate estimate as to what our average player age is. I might agree with you that our Bedrock server has a lower average age, but that doesn't mean we should just throw the rules out the window for our Java server that might have a slightly higher age. This quote from Abood summarizes this phenomenon well:

    From a business standpoint, Mineplex has chosen to be a family friendly server. Changing from a family friendly server to a mature server would be a huge decision that I frankly don't ever see happening. Allowing inappropriate and rude behavior on our server could cause lost opportunities from a business standpoint. As an example, we wouldn't be partnered as an official Bedrock server if we weren't family friendly.

    This is a completely separate issue. Changing our rules wouldn't have any affect on IP bans. I believe we have some projects in place that might serve as a solution to this issue. It might be worth creating a separate thread going more into detail with this idea though.

    Staff members that can't handle the workload the current server provides aren't kept on the team. I don't feel at this time that we need to make the "workload" easier as our team is relatively large and we still get plenty of new applicants. This shouldn't be a reason to remove rules.

    I completely agree, and this is already taught to incoming staff members. General Rudeness is a severity 1 chat offense which means that it requires a warning before a mute. This means that a player shouldn't be muted for this reason because if they receive a warning, they'll know to avoid that topic or risk being muted. This is exactly how it's worded on the official rules document: "You will be warned, if you continue with the same behavior you will be muted." You can see that there's really no reason to be muted for breaking this rule as you are required to be gently warned to stop before being muted.
    We also have what coralines stated about leniency which is completely correct:

    --------​

    It sounds like from this quote and the title of the thread that you believe our punishment lengths are too strict. I would love to chat more about this in specific because I do disagree. We have 4 different severities that were carefully determined to be fitting for the corresponding rule. First time offenders are punished in accordance with how severe we feel the rule broken was. Repeat offenders are muted for longer each time they break a rule. I feel this is a good system.


    --------​

    Overall it sounds like you're arguing/suggesting we shift our server away from the PG and family friendly fundamentals we were build on, which I just can't support. I feel uncomfortable in Discord servers that allow inappropriate behavior, and I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable if my home of Java Mineplex allowed things like rudeness.

    I also feel removing the rudeness rule opens a door that may snowball into shifting other rules, which again changes the fundamentals of the server and I don't see our Leadership Team allowing that.
     
    Posted Jun 15, 2019,
    Last edited Jun 15, 2019
  7. I'll admit I harp staff and of a laid back smart mouth, but at the same time it allows more communication of how I feel. For example: Someone that uses esp - of course not punishable without enough evidence (which there never is) - targets me to kill me say L then leave the game. Next time I see them I have a load to drop on them. But it isn't extremely harassive m o s t of the time and it generally just makes them stop or big shut of mouth.

    I do 100% think we should reevaluate the chat restrictions though
     
    Posted Jun 15, 2019
    Attractive likes this.
  8. Heya, before you read this please remember that this is completely my opinion, and what I believe happened.

    Sorry if this seems a little unnecessary, but I wanted to expand on what I said earlier. The Mineplex community was younger in general back in 2015, when I said 7-8 I meant that was the youngest age that I myself saw, and I was actually 8 at the time. Most youtubers who primarily played Mineplex, were geared towards kids, such as ParkerGames, etc. But they slowly became more mature, as did their audiences, like how ParkerGames started swearing, but still censored it out to keep it "PG". The kids that once played, grew older and now the average young person that I see, is now 11-12, which is a more mature audience. But after games like Fortnite/PUBG came out Minecraft lost popularity, which reduced the amount of new players, that came to Minecraft in general, as well as caused old players to leave. But to me it feels like the community has matured, even just in random lobbies, a majority of the people can have a great conversation with you. I feel like the rules are too strict on a community that has matured past the of the current rule set. I can't back any of this up without having a poll of the entire community, but this is what I have seen just from my point of view on the subject. Hopefully I could clear some things up with my previous post, I rushed through it and didn't fully explain my point of view. Thanks for your understanding!

    Have a good rest of the day!
    WackityQuack
     
    Posted Jun 16, 2019,
    Last edited Jun 16, 2019
    Attractive likes this.
  9. Wait so do you admit that Mineplex is in it for the popularity/clout?
    --- Post updated ---
    First off I'd say that fortnite did not kill minecraft it killed other fps games. Also just curious who is ParkerGames? Never heard of them. AnYwAy, there 100% has been an audience shift. You could be in the middle of class and see someone pull out a chromebook to download minecraft and either be memey or actually play the game. ~Yeet yote that's all she wrote.
     
    Posted Jun 16, 2019
    Attractive likes this.
  10. That’s what used to be the “Mineplex YouTuber”. He had a channel on YouTube called “Mineplex Games” if I remember correctly, which later on turned into Parker_Games, as his IGN. He was the major YouTuber representing the server with a few hundred thousand subscribers, and got the position thanks to one of the owners, that being defek7.
     
    Posted Jun 16, 2019
  11. First off I'd say that fortnite did not kill minecraft it killed other fps games. Also just curious who is ParkerGames? Never heard of them. AnYwAy, there 100% has been an audience shift. You could be in the middle of class and see someone pull out a chromebook to download minecraft and either be memey or actually play the game. ~Yeet yote
    ah thanks.
     
    Posted Jun 16, 2019

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