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RAYERS

Discussion in 'Mine-Strike' started by launu, Oct 18, 2020.

?

TILCORN FOR RC !!

  1. YES ! THERES AT LEAST 3 RAYERS IN EVERY PUB !

    37 vote(s)
    84.1%
  2. no lol stay useless

    7 vote(s)
    15.9%
  1. What's up its launu, or a minestrike player. I'm here to discuss rayers, and what needs to be done.

    RAYERS-
    The Problem :


    I think its a KNOWN FACT in the minestrike community that rayers are prevalent in minestrike, and as time goes on the number of rayers only seems to increase. It seems to be so easy to ray and get away with it. All you have to do is sit by a wall and pretend to f5 and just ray them. Any ordinary MS player with an IQ higher than 3.45 can see a rayer from a mile away. Not to mention, the cheaters that cheat just to "get back" at the current rayers, and then they succumb to it. These rayers pre scope angles and prefire you so the second you peek a corner you're dead. That's no fun.

    The solution?


    Getting staff to actually ban for xray. Is it really that hard to tell when a player is STARING AT A PLAYER THROUGH A WALL ALL GAME LONG? I think not. Furthermore, if a player is actually not a rayer, they can appeal it easily, as they obviously should get the benefit of the doubt, and get unbanned. I think there should definitely be something done from players who actually know what they're doing, not staff members who touched minestrike when it released, played 3 games, and considered themselves a "minestrike veteran." If you have below 1,500 wins you're pretty much voiceless in this process.

    Personally, I'd suggest staff either a) use their braincells and eyes and ban players blatantly staring through walls at players OR

    PROMOTE TILGORN TO RC!!!!!

    HES THE ONLY STAFF MEMBER THAT PLAYS MINESTRIKE THAT HAS AN IQ OVER 40 WHEN IT COMES TO THIS!!

    He knows who rays, he knows who doesn't. Simple.

    What has been done in the past?


    BastetTheSatann (EX-STAFF MEMBER)
    aka badstet
    *banned rayers for blink since "xray" wasn't viable.*
    banned 100+ rayers since "xray" wasn't a viable reason.
    To my knowledge, not a single one of his bans for raying were unreasonable/false bans. They cheated. Nothing more than that.
    The result? Him getting demoted from staff because he was promoting change when the mineplex staff stays incompetent, doesn't listen to their players, and decides change is bad.
    Badstet has banned more rayers in his short-lived heroism than the whole mineplex team has in their history.

    The takeaway?
    Do something.
    What badstet did was take action. Though he did the wrong things, they were for the right reasons.

    EFFECT ON THE MINESTRIKE ENVIRONMENT:

    [redacted]
    , the current #1 minestrike wins player is a well-known rayer that has not won over 75 games legitimately.

    [redacted],
    the current #2 minestrike wins player used xray for 4000 of their wins.

    [redacted],
    the current #9 minestrike wins player used xray for well over 3,500 of their wins.

    Over 2 rayers per minestrike public game that just makes the game unfun.

    Seriously, think about it... turning a corner and instantly dying to a player that prefired you and dying like this 50% of the time.

    THE COMMUNITY'S THOUGHTS ON RAYERS:

    Meggo
    : one of the best egirls to ever play minestrike :

    They honestly ruin the game for me and it is hard to play MineStrike when there's an infestation of hackers
    It ruins the community and I really want the problem of rays to be fixed

    spookaroou: plays minestrike pubs for hours every day

    mineplex needs a better and easier way to ban rayers
    it’s very hard to catch rayers
    for mineplex at least


    Frosstt: minestrike enthusiast, "Professor Reg", grinds pubs all day.

    While I'm mostly a part of the group of people who say rayers are just people who look for ways to negatively affect one's day, I understand why some people do ray. In no way am I saying raying or any form of cheating is ok, but a lot of older players who do ray are just finding other ways to play the game because lets face it the game gets boring for some people. I do agree that newer players who start raying either don't care about learning the game but still care about getting kills in it, or just want to get reactions. All of closet rayers go down the path of the former no matter if they try to hide it or not. As for catching rayers it is NOT as hard as mineplex makes it out to be, spectating them for a game or two can normally confirm your suspicions even if they try to hide it. I'm not going to waste a bunch of time talking about what to look for when catching rayers because I honestly could care less this game, I've already explained this topic multiple times.


    Sarinaa: Minestrike veteran, professional MS Player

    "As a person who has played casual MineStrike for over two years, it has come to my realization that MineStrike’s X-Rayer problem originates from the fact that the higher ups continue to turn a blind eye to the problem and continue to neglect MineStrike as a minigame. X-Ray is rarely punishable. You cannot report it directly by typing “/report”, nor can you get an average mod to take care of the X-Rayer directly. Because of this, it is automatically implanted into our brains that it is okay to X-Ray. Although I understand that X-Ray is not the easiest hack detect and ban for without sufficient evidence, I do believe that Mineplex is doing the bare minimum to deal with the issue, there is much more they could do. There is a possible way to make punishing X-Rayers more convenient and simpler, there has to be. And until it is figured out, MineStrike will continue to lose its supply of new players and will continue to lose its popularity."

    IrakoWolfbaen:
    Current #6 wins on LB, best player (legit) on leaderboards

    Feeling really strongly about this, Irako states,
    "Okay so. Rayers have been a big problem with me personally because I'm a big prefirerer and oftentimes I get grouped up with them in some peoples minds. However, I think emotionally there's not actually any player that seriously despises them more than me, beyond just general gamer-y rage I legitimately hate (and I use that word very, very seriously) their mindsets. Rayers originally came from players who simply weren't good enough at the game and tried making up for it. These players were super sad but seriously messed up and they easily ruin the games experience for people play them. To be honest, some of these guys are a big reason why I prefire so greatly because I looked up to them becase as a noob I legit just thought they were so much better, and I basically copied a lot of timings and playstyles. So that's was super disappointing when I learn the game better after thousands of hours and saw how blatant their micromistakes were. But I think most rayers in the past few years just value themselves and their enjoyment above everyone elses and thats not even sad its just a toxic, disgusting behavior. It fully goes against anyone who has any sense of morality mindset. These players legit deserve to be IP banned because they're more or less fully aware of what they're doing and who they're abusing. So, as far as Mineplex goes, I've never been so let down. You'd think they'd have experienced staff members who can basically perform overwatches on these guys and ban the vast majority of them within a minute (seriously once you know what you're doing, even if you are watching them hoping that they're not raying you can see right through them). As far as I'm concerned, this is just a lack of maturity of MP and a complete lack of care for their player base. This also brings along another type of cheater who just feels wronged by the system and cheats to 'get back' at the cheaters.
    These guys often don't realize that they aren't actually helping solve the problem at all. So, basically. Rayers are a major issue in MS, and its unacceptable that they're allowed to ruin the game for everyone around them."


    The general consensus is that rayers should be gone.
    and staff needs to do something about it.



    EDIT:

    So I've been informed that RC doesn't actually ban xrayers, they're the "brains" behind the process, and create rules to get them banned. I've created a more in-detail post to this, found somewhere below here, but here's my revised solution:
    Personally, if I were RC, I'd stop being so lenient in the unreasonably high-standards needed to ban rayers, I'd be more lenient in these players' appeals being accepted on the off-chance that they were actually not raying.















     
    Posted Oct 18, 2020,
    Last edited Oct 20, 2020
    jm_, whatup, nico and 17 others like this.
  2. gee thanks launers! rayers are wack and that's a fact!
     
    Posted Oct 18, 2020
    launu likes this.
  3. you're welcome clare :)
    chances are staff arent gonna do anythin abt it i just need as much support as possible but that helps !! thank you have a nice night !
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 18, 2020
    piercethekay likes this.
  4. i love seeing active memebers of mineplex push for change. launu's expose on the neglectful current staff who chose to do nothing about rayers is supported by the whole of the active MS community.
     
    Posted Oct 18, 2020
    middleeve, affinity0 and piercethekay like this.
  5. you just gotta outray them with your game sense xd !
     
    Posted Oct 18, 2020
  6. I'm doing this for the majority of the MS community. Its easy to predict where most of the rayers lurk, though it is still annoying when im not actively trying to predict their movements. I appreciate the feedback though

    That's the point ! :)
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 18, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Oct 24, 2020
    IHackedJake likes this.
  7. yes
     
    Posted Oct 18, 2020
  8. Y E S S I R .
    And almost all of them are toxic as hell.
    A few others that play almost every day that you might be forgetting:
    - pogn
    - H_AT
    - 0ksa
    - fatgorl
    - PrimalStarBoy

    And let’s not forget just the randoms that play for about 2 weeks and then quit but throughout the duration of their period with us, they are nothing but toxic if we call them out. Staff says it’s hard to ban somebody for rays because it’s difficult to know if they’re actually raying. But if they just watched the clips that people post on youtube, you can clearly see the problem.

    You’re welcome for the shoutouts, rayers <3
    Stay mad
     
    Posted Oct 18, 2020
    nico, buckaroou and launu like this.
  9. mhm !
    you forgot some
    -Vright
    -LordRotharoth
    -ZimBeller
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 18, 2020
    nico, mab8400 and buckaroou like this.
  10. The point where you say staff are incompetent is proven further when the "redacted" labels are added but we can still look at "#2" or #10" on the leaderboard. The logic that has been used since i've started to play mineplex again is so mind-boggling that I really feel like there is no hope. Bringing any good idea in any way whatsoever is completely ignored, seen as stupid, or somehow will get someone in trouble. Honestly feel like 1+1 doesn't equal 2 on Mineplex because that's just not what Mineplex wants it to be!

    I pretty much only played this game in order to get the achievements (i'm seriously so bad at this game, you cannot get worse than me..) , and there is a good reason I won't be coming back anytime soon. Raying is basically the same idea as esp in Block Hunt; and almost every single hunter on the top 10 has cheated by either; ESPing, using modified texture packs, boosted off of known espers/ghosters, or ghosted with an alt/friend. Which is why I barely play anymore. I'm pretty much the only hunter to purposely leave the game if there is someone cheating/someone possibly cheating. The problem is that the "closeter" rayers won't get banned. AKA the ones who are really good at hiding it. But I 100% agree with you that the blatants just need to get cleaned up; it's pretty disgusting to see so many gamemodes completely ruined by something that is so easy to deal with in many ways. In my opinion, I think that all RC members need to simply play the game more or have at least 500-1000 wins in the game to actually know how the game works. In general RC is just too small and we need dedicated members who will put a **** ton of effort into getting things dealt with. I also just hope that mineplex finally enables POV spectating for all players; and ESPECIALLY for Minestrike, Paintball, and Block Hunt since it will let people know the viewing angles that a player is seeing. This way, we can use random accounts to spectate games and record. Other than that, all we can do is hope that Mineplex will final begin to prioritize fairness and ethicacy over cosmetics and edaters.
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020
    launu likes this.
  11. I agree
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020
  12. I play a fair bit of Minestrike myself, and it's a huge problem and I agree that more action does need to be taken. However, X-ray is a little harder to notice than a lot of hacks, even when it's blatant, and we don't want to issue incorrect punishments. I do believe that having more staff able to punish for x-ray would be of great benefit to the community. The more people and the longer these people can get away with X-raying, the worse and more ingrained the problem gets, it is a huge unfair advantage and I would love to see this problem diminished.
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020
    Fusafez likes this.
  13. what if you applied to be a staff member, you'd be good at it :)

    i think vright rays bc he is a cw player so he doesnt care about his rep on ms
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Oct 24, 2020
  14. Hi affinity0! I see you around in minestrike games sometimes! How are you?
    I noticed you stated that "x-ray is a little harder to notice"... but then go on to say "even when it's blatant," and I should propose this... Have you ever actually spectated a rayer? I can assure you it is way easier than staff members make it to be. Maybe it's just a result of my prolonged experience in playing minestrike, but surely it is not that hard to see a player prescoping a player 2 seconds before they turn a corner, and kill them the instant they turn a corner? If it is THAT hard to spectate a rayer, would it favor you for me to create a video or guide on how to spot them? I can assure you it takes a maximum of TEN ROUNDS spectating one, and you'll know instantly whether they ray or not. It's not rocket science.

    For now, affinity0, and for any staff member spotting a rayer, here are some common behaviors of rayers:

    -As I said, prescopes corners for prolonged periods of time, knowing a player is there, and shoots players turning a corner INSTANTLY, as in non-humane reaction times. (usually 3/4 of the player's body is out for a normal human's reaction time. 1/2 their body can be out for more experienced players who have spotted the player earlier, and expects them) It should be blatant when a player peeks a corner and dies within .001 second of peeking. CONSTANT SHOWING OF THIS BEHAVIOR IS RAYING. If a player does this once it does not mean they ray. Prefiring is something many professional players do to get damage off, and provide pressure.
    - This one should be a given, but, staring through walls. A normal player running somewhere should not be staring through a wall. It is common for more experienced players to pre-aim common angles players might be before they peek a corner though, so be aware. (Just watch players randomly looking through walls at players across the map)
    - Fake F5ing. I understand it may be difficult for most staff members to distinguish between f5 and xray, but let me propose this: While a rayer is in an exchange with a player around a box, does f5 let the rayer know exactly where to walk to avoid the player? This sounds weird, so let me visualize it for you: a player manages to get up close to a rayer and there is a 3x3x3 box that they're fighting around. The normal player goes left and right, and the rayer knows EXACTLY where to go to be on the complete opposite side of the player. F5 doesn't allow this. Xray does.

    These are just the bare minimum, but using these you can spot any common rayer that doesn't know what they're doing. As for the ones who know how to hide it, this is where my point in which Tilgorn comes in. He has enough experience playing this game to distinguish closet rayers, and ban them.

    Per your point in "issuing incorrect punishments," the general minestrike community knows who rays and who doesn't, as they have experience in that field, and it's not hard to just disguise and ask in team chat, #Hey, does "IGN" ray, or seem suspicious to any of you guys?, however don't let that dictate your decision, do spectate the player and use your intuition in the process as well.

    ALSO feel free to reach out to me for guidance on who rays and who doesn't. I have great intuition on rayers. OR you can just ask Tilgorn, he has a decent sense about who rays and who doesn't as well.

    Whats up Dragon Gamer :) I see you a lot !
    Being a staff member doesn't mean I'll gain the ability to ban rayers. I need to be part of an invite-only team called the Rules Committee, and it's hard to get on that team. Take Tilcorn for example, hes a long-time minestrike player that's been a staff member for 2+ years, and to this day has not gained the ability to ban rayers. Also I really don't have the time nor patience to deal with the staff team's management, their restrictions and priorities are so corrupted.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 19, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Oct 24, 2020
    Flippaz, BadgerInASuit and affinity0 like this.
  15. Hey! Meggo here, and man do I want the rayers gone. It would change the MS community completely. I’ve been friends with people that openly admit to cheating and they just don’t get banned because staff members do not take initiative. The 3 years I’ve played MS the raying problem has grown more and more. People I found who I thought were good were simply just cheating and once I started to learn the game more, I definitely noticed how blatant rays are. I won’t call out the rayers because there are quite frankly over hundreds, but I just want the ones that have rayed the longest to at least get banned. As a community member I can’t quite take action and try to ban these players myself, and getting an RC to deal with xrayers is such a long process all for the cheater to just make another account. If Mineplex can come up with a solution for these kind of cheats, then it would definitely bring back more players.
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020,
    Last edited Oct 19, 2020
  16. oh lol
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020
  17. Hardest part is getting to the point where evidence is undeniable. Because of the whole "don't want to ban innocents" thing, you have to compile a pretty insane amount of evidence, which becomes unusable after a relatively short period of time unfortunately. A solution I see to this might be to increase how old evidence can be for reports on things like raying, esp, etc in games like MS, BH, so on. I recently-ish reported someone I was 99% sure was raying, but unfortunately the threshold of evidence is too high to get someone like that banned. If I were to run into that same person a month later, I think the previous evidence should still be usable. As far as I am aware, you can't use evidence older than two weeks for this sort of thing. And I agree, RC should be expanded to cover more games more competently. More people on RC is a good thing.
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020
  18. I'm only a casual MS player, and I have nowhere near the 1.5k wins launu mentions for being able to have a say in this, but even I can tell when players are raying in-game, and I even recognize a few IGNs of players who I've noticed raying quite obviously (standing against walls game after game and prefiring when players peek or come around corners). Unfortunately, it's hard to get evidence or an RC member to ban for xray unless the player is using other hacks as well, which is rare. Would be great if RC could expand to deal with this, as I often have to jump between lobbies looking for one without a rayer, and usually just settle on the one with the fewest rayers.
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020
    SALB likes this.
  19. It's not "choose not to do anything about it", they can't do anything about it, serious consequences can be handed out if you just go around banning people that you think are hacking. Especially if it's something they can't punish for in the first place.
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020
  20. Pretty much all of RC's duties are to review the rules and form a consensus on if it should be changed. They don't focus on punishing rulebreakers nearly as much as their other responsibilities. The reason it's so hard to get on this team in the first place is because they need people who understand the rules the best on the team, hence why regardless of how long you've been on the team, only certain people get invited. Take @Tortelett for example, they've been on the team for 7 years, but aren't on RC, look at @FuzzyJunior , in May, and was re-invited onto RC in June, it doesn't matter how long you've been on the team, it all depends on how well you know the rules.
     
    Posted Oct 19, 2020

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