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Rayer problems, cringe title, I know.

Discussion in 'Mine-Strike' started by Frosstt, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. Aight, I'm a long time player of Minestrike, been playing since it was released, and I can't help but notice the flourishing rayers and Impact users on Minestrike. Impact users usually get banned relatively quickly, I won't be focusing mainly on those players. Now, I know what your thinking; "Oh, he is just going to cry about how mods can't do anything, or how it's so annoying without giving any advice, or maybe he is a rayer just trolling the forums." Nah dog, I'm dead serious, I'm going to give some suggestions of solid tests that any mod can do to check if a player is raying or not. So, most rayers use a texture-pack called a "glasspack" that turns all the blocks into glass blocks so that they can see through walls. Other rayers will use player ESP mods (A.E Impact) to see players through walls, players who have this usually have an aim assist of some sort.
    So, how do we find out if they are raying or not? How do we know if they're not in a call? How do we know they are not just F5ing? Well, there is this lovely mod called Podcrash+ that allows you to spectate players, F5 from their perspective, and (only after you have died) allows you to turn on a player ESP so you can see if a player is raying or not, kinda like in Counter Strike. Me using this mod for competitive reasons has allowed me to walk into a Minestrike lobby and find rayers almost instantly.
    Now, what are these tests that I go through to see if they're raying or not? First off I see if they look at anyone through the walls, if they don't look at anyone through the walls then I see if they "Fake F5" by F5ing from their perspective, if they prefire someone that you can't see from their F5 perspective it's likely that they're raying, now, if both of those tests seem to not work or "not show enough evidence" as some would say, just watch from their perspective, and if they prefire a lot of people and hit their prefires on the first shot then they are probably raying. I usually run through each test until the game is over or if I see them do at least 2 of these things I've mentioned 3 times.
    Now hol' up, you also have to watch if they pre every corner they come across, usually rayers wont do this, but they might. I tend to hold my ground on the tests of looking at people through walls and "Fake F5ing," because, sometimes legit players will get really lucky in some games, like for example I was in a lobby with a rayer "MosTheKangaroo" playing on Overpass, so I decided to rush to Water, hold it, and prefire Connector, Sewers, and Sandbags. I was of course accused because I was prefiring those places and getting kills. So, just record you spectating a player when you have Podcrash+'s ESP enabled and watch the video over again and share it with others to get their opinion on the matter. even if it takes 3 days - a week to get the rayer banned, that's better than nothing, like we currently have.

    ~Frosstt


    P.S.
    If this does come into action then players using Podcrash+ can record them spectating a suspect and they can post it on the forums so mods can watch it an analyse it.

    P.S.S.
    The reason I'm writing this is because I just got done playing in a lobby with a rayer "Welp_GG". So, another rayer on your guys' list. I've also been muted for calling out rayers before.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2019
    NotEnoughSmiles and nyxro like this.
  2. Mineplex can't ban rayers, it is the sad truth. A lucky and confirmed prefire isn't that rare.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2019
  3. And to the OP - We actually do ban x-rayers, but we have very strict requirements for what is needed in evidence because of the possibilities mentioned in the original thread. Firstly, evidence is limited to only those that are staff members to avoid any issues with players putting together clips from multiple games that can be misleading. Evidence is also run by the Rules Committee for approval before a punishment is applied to ensure that the evidence does meet the requirements and the player isn't being falsely banned. We've banned numerous players through this process, though we don't see as much evidence as you would think.

    Ultimately, I'd encourage you to contact any staff member if you suspect someone is x-raying. We'll be happy to gather evidence and process it to have the player punished appropriately. We already use most of these tips and encourage those recording to use Podcrash+ to help with determining if a player is x-raying or not.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2019
    neropatti likes this.
  4. You say here that only evidence collected first-hand by staff members can be used by RC to determine if someone is cheating. Below you appear to contradict this:

    Why do you encourage people to record with Podcrash+, or at all, if it cannot be used by RC as evidence? On that note, why is Podcrash+ still listed as a mod that Mineplex recommend against using, despite RC encouraging people to use it and it actually being enforced by Mineplex for an official Mineplex tournament in 2017?

    Only evidence collected by staff can be used, but are there any staff members who will actually come and record a reported hacker? If I am correct, there were only two staff members who pushed for RC to implement a system to ban xrayers, one of whom was Bastet, who is now network-banned and the other, MapleSyrup, who was demoted. I find it hard to believe that there are any staff members who either play MS or even join a MS lobby on even a semi-frequent basis.

    Perhaps if Mineplex staff were allowed to use Podcrash+ to help gather their evidence of xrayers, more xrayers would be caught. Unfortunately, a policy exists preventing Mineplex staff from becoming Podcrash+ staff. This is very odd. Bastet was Podcrash+ staff and this massively helped him in identifying xrayers. Unfortunately he had to resort to banning them with a false ban reason, as the requirements set by RC for xray bans are too high to ban blatant xrayers. I like to think that Bastet temporarily ended some of the freedom that cheaters have been given on the Mineplex network, before he quit and was NWB'd.

    I'm not entirely sure why MineStrike is still a game on Mineplex. It hasn't received an update for three years, aside from one or two bug patches (it took over a year to get one line of code changed). The build team has not built a map for MineStrike for three years either, if memory serves. It's a sorry situation that somehow I have personally updated the game more than Mineplex has in the last three years. Feels like the game was supposed to be archived last year but it was forgotten about.
     
    Posted Aug 7, 2019,
    Last edited Aug 7, 2019
    Creeped_ and NotEnoughSmiles like this.
  5. TL;DR of the OP:

    I've been playing since Minestrike was released. There have been alot of xrayers and Impact users on Minestrike. Impact users usually get banned relatively quickly, so let's talk about the rayers. ikwhatchu think redacted

    Here are some solid tests that any mod can do to check if a player is raying. Most rayers use a "glasspack" that turns all the blocks into glass blocks. Some use player ESP mods (A.E Impact) to see players through walls, usually with an aim assist of some sort.

    So, how do we find out if they are raying, in a call or F5ing? The answer: Podcrash+

    When you are spectating players, Podcrash+ allows you to F5 from their perspective, and turn on player ESP. The latter is used for catching rayers, so it's similar to Counter Strike's overwatch. This has allowed me to quickly find rayers.

    Now, the tests.

    1. Are they looking at people through the walls?
    2. Are they trying to hide their ESP/xray by pretending to just F5? (If they prefire anyone that you couldn't see from their F5 perspective, it's likely that they're raying.)
    3. Look at how they prefire. Doing it alot and hitting your first shots is suspicious.

    I usually run through each test until they "trigger" at least 2 separate test 3 times, or until the match is over.

    Editors note: I ran out of compacting juice, last section of the OP was cut out.
     
    Posted Aug 7, 2019
  6. I think you may be confused about our process for dealing with x-rayers. Our staff members record players they believe to be x-raying and send it to a member of the Rules Committee. Then, it is either approved or disapproved for punishment, similar to how a player report is handled. We hope that this will reduce the amount of false bans that occur for players just getting "lucky" shots sometimes or that use F5 around corners. The former mods that you have mentioned in this thread followed this process.

    My post meant that we do encourage staff members that are recording potential x-rayers to use Podcrash+ to help them determine if a person is x-raying or not, since they are the only ones that can record for it. However, we have to make sure that we make everyone, our players and staff members alike, know the risks of using Podcrash+. We inform them of the risk that someone could access their private chat(s) and then allow them to individually decide if they want to use it or not. If the mod were truly "dangerous," we would not allow it at all. However, in most cases, users won't have any issues with using the mod and we agreed that it would be a helpful tool to determine if a player is x-raying or not. It's not a requirement for evidence. I also don't see the need for any staff members to be Podcrash+ staff members to use the mod.

    I'm not aware of the circumstances surrounding the tournament requiring the mod, so I can't comment much on that.

    I have personally come to numerous games and recorded players, but you are right that we don't see a ton of reports on x-rayers. We saw quite a few when we first implemented the change, but it slowly diminished. As far as I know, we don't currently have a lot of staff members that regularly play Minestrike, but that doesn't mean we aren't willing to help and record players when needed. That's part of our job, so if you bring it to our attention, we'll be able to help out. A simple message is all that it takes for a staff member to record evidence and send it to RC.

    Our requirements for evidence really aren't that extensive considering the possibilities that we have to consider that were detailed in the original thread (F5, sound, luck, etc.) I've never had to watch someone for more than 10 - 15 minutes to successfully determine if they were using x-ray or not. That's a small amount of time for a staff member to watch someone that doesn't have an obvious hack, such as bunny hop or anti-knockback.

    As far as updates to the game goes, that's completely out of my hands. I'm not involved in any process that includes updating the game itself or its maps. I'm in support of any updates to games that haven't received one in a while and Minestrike is definitely on my list of games that haven't seen many changes recently.
     
    Posted Aug 8, 2019

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