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Randomize Parties in Champions

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by Paladise, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. Since when was the mechanic removed, it still seems like it exists.
     
    Posted Aug 14, 2020
  2. OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 14, 2020
  3. While it may be hard to grasp, many players got into the game inspite of this. The only reason why it is so hard for new players to join Champions now is due to pub stomping. If you are forced to stay in spawn since the other team is circling around like vultures around prey, you aren't going to learn the basics of abilities, teamwork, coordination, strategies, etc. Now let's examine some evidence:



    Here we get to witness a lovely act of pub stomping. Most of these new players already know how to access abilities, so a tutorial would be useless to them. The only thing they need is quality practice, something they are not getting due to being spawn killed.

    Now you might say: Remove Spawn camping.

    Removing spawn camping through any means won't prevent these pub stompers from simply camping outside of spawn. And as you can see towards the later parts of this video, they can easily camp spawn from the outside.

    You can easily play with friends in this system since you remain in the same game. Your discord calls, party chat, or whatever mode of communication you utilized won't be infringed upon. I understand that it may be a bit funner to be able to coordinate, but sadly if this pub stomping continues, there won't be any players to stomp on, and your time with friends will be spent talking in waiting lobbies. Something I'm sure you will find distasteful when you could've been playing a Champions game with friends. Furthermore, I'm not sure how much coordinating they are doing up above in that video, seems like they were all just taking advantage of the additional skill they each had for easy 2 and 3 v 1s.

    If there is more players, there is probably going to be an increased amount of pub stomping. I'm not sure what hard evidence is backing this up, and regardless of whether it is an increased amount or decreased amount, there will be pub stomping. I think you can agree with that. And with this pub stomping, it will always hinder the amount of players Champions is capable of achieving even if all the balance updates, tutorials, content, etc are released.

    Obviously this will benefit everyone since there will be more players. Those who have ran to other gamemodes due to pub stomping here will return back. This means more games and shorter queue times. It will no longer take a couple minutes for a DOM game to fill up, nor a couple of hours for a CTF game to fill up.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 2, 2020
    Young_Inventor likes this.
  4. Discord calls are useless if you're not on the same team unless you just like talking about stuff outside of the game (Same applies to parties, but it kinda breaks the points of parties). Most of the pub stomping players are players who've had a load of experience with the game. So new players = less pub stomping imo, you'd be less likely to find a pubstomp lobby since theres more new players. Camping out of spawn means they can't re-kit which means going back to full hp, which is one of the stuff for spawn killing.

    Also the game being hard to play for new players can have a different fix, builds look like a mess (It looks confusing and seems to take a bit of time to see what the hell you have to do), and also the high price costs kind of limits experimenting for new players to mp in general, and they don't know whats supposed to match the other, or whats inferior and superior for their playstyle. If theres an actual intro that helps players understand the game it would benefit them way more then destroying playing with friends, and your statement doesnt really show how you can still play with friends if randomizing parties.

    Also skill balancing is kinda yikes at the moment, and some skills are way more broken then the other, and veterans benefit a lot more from it as they know the broken skills while new players don't.
     
    Posted Sep 2, 2020,
    Last edited Sep 2, 2020
  5. Coordination is one of the most useful strategies in team games. While it is possible to coordinate through team chat without being in a party, being in a Discord call allows players to communicate where a flag is, where to group up, etc while being able to move and have full function-ability. If you are talking in team chat, you have to pause to type in chat, wasting valuable time and might lead to you getting type killed. I could even argue that party chat is superior to team chat as moderators are able to see what is said in team, but not in party chat. While I understand they are not supposed to act upon that information, I highly doubt there is any plausible way to detect whether they did or not, leading them to actually act upon that information.

    This is for the most part correct. However, if we take Cake Wars, a game with a considerably larger playerbase, there is still a vast amount of pub stompers. Almost a party filled of highly skilled players in every lobby. This is probably what is going to happen even if champions got more players. Something is highly unlikely in itself. Sure there are scenarios to get more players like simply updating Champions, but that is something that has been and will be put off for a long time. This solution is much more simpler to implement, and much more effective.

    Sure a tutorial may help, but clearly they haven't. I myself have made a Capture the Flag guide and there are dozens if not hundreds of videos detailing Champions gameplay and simple tutorials to the gamemode. I'm not sure how else a tutorial can be implemented especially since there's so many different options currently. If you are talking about a full-blown in-game tutorial, that would be interesting to see, but something that would take a lot of developer time. Probably as much as just having a regular Champions balancing update.

    As for playing with friends while randomizing parties... You are still in the same game, so every bit of conversation besides coordination is still fair game for Discord calls. You might recall this back when we used to open up the MCS and had full blown CTF games with almost everyone in a group Discord call, and how fun that was.

    Precisely, giving veterans another unfair advantage over newer players, further stressing the need to randomize parties. A balance update could also solve this but like in your thread I believe you yourself stated that it might take another couple of months / years to push one of those out.

    _________________________________________

    Parties weren't mean to have this impact but they clearly have. While there are less controversial ways to solve this issue, those take a lot of effort, time, and aren't proven to help same as with this idea. Perhaps if this idea seems too controversial, 3 players (randomly chosen from a party) are guaranteed to be on the same team, while the others are on the opposite. This would allow duos or trios to still have more fun playing together on the same team, while balancing the teams out just a bit. Also the sheep queueing system will also have to be removed if this is implemented, since the queueing system serves as a way for players not in parties to team up together.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 12, 2020
    Legend998 and Young_Inventor like this.
  6. I don't have time to read through the previous posts on this thread, so I'll just respond to what I am able to see by scrolling up the last page.

    I would much rather have a balance update pushed out than prevent players from playing with their friends. The whole reasons parties exist in the first place is because Mineplex doesn't want to force players to play by themselves. If we are to split parties up, I can guarantee you it will do a lot more harm than good, it will cause those that want to play with their friends to move to a different game, which will have a negative effect on Champions as a whole. Yes, it may cause a few players that left because of pub stomping to come back to the game, but I can cite the main reason that champions lost players are due to Mineplex's steady decline in players.

    Whilst you are still in the same game, you are not enjoying the time playing with your friends, you are playing against them. I will say once again that the whole reason that parties exist is that they don't want to prevent players from playing together. Whilst having an MCS playing CTF games with a lot of players can be fun, I wouldn't consider it fun if I'm playing with friends in a public game, and am forced to split up and play against them. I haven't played CTF all that much, but I have played DOM and multiple other team games where this could also be visualised, and I can tell you without a doubt that I would not play a game or even bring up the possibility of playing it with my friends if I knew I could be forced to play against them.

    The reason that tutorials rarely work is that the concept behind champions is one of the, if not the hardest to learn out of every game on the network. Capture The Flag and Dominate are generally quite easy to understand, but because of all the added features to the game that makes Mineplex's version so unique, it makes it extremely hard for a new player to learn, even when they're watching a tutorial.

    The main way that players are going to get better at the game is by playing with someone that knows the game well (and can teach them whilst also playing the game themselves) but also by just playing the game over and over again until you get the hang of it.

    You're trying to claim that this statement made by this player is incorrect for Cake Wars, but they are not incorrect. The reason that so many people are able to pub stomp in cake wars is that they have experience in the game. If you look at a lot of the pub stompers, the majority of them have 500 wins or more and most have around 600-1000 games played. This in itself is enough to give a player the best possible experience of how the game works and how to play it. Cake Wars is considerably easier to learn than Champions, meaning as soon as you get the basic strategies in your head, you're pretty much set.

    As for your other point, I will state once again that I would much rather a game update be pushed than force players to split up and play against their friends. As I said previously, that would be a lot more detrimental to the player base than it would be beneficial. Yes, this solution may be simpler and easier to implement, but that does not mean in any case that it is the better solution. The update for the game may take longer, but it is definitely the better solution here.
     
    Posted Sep 13, 2020 at 4:11 AM
  7. There is no proof that bringing a balance update will bring any new players. If you are going to deny this idea, then you should also propose a solution with some evidence that will expand the playerbase. I suppose that a balance update will bring back many of the higher level players since now they know that all the skills are fair to use, and that this will lead to more pub stomping. The new players who join because of the update message will only provide short term fuel for these pub stompers, and then Champions will be back at Square 1.

    If players that "want to play with their friends", move to a different game, they clearly don't see the point that you can still play with your friends in the same game. Now if they are leaving because now they won't have 95% win - loss ratios, then perhaps it is for the best for Champions. Not only will this bring back players who left because of pub stomping, but it will actually allow for new players to join. I'm not saying all the new players, but those willing enough to learn about the different classes, and continue to try learning despite the fact that it might be hard. The current situation where it's 5 very skilled players versus 2? skilled plus three new players is very unfair. Champions is staying afloat because these 3 new players are rotated out, joining a game of Champions, getting pub stomped, leaving, and being replaced by others. If pub stomping wasn't an issue, some of these players might actually stay, boosting the playercount. I'm not saying the main reason why people left Champions was because of pub stomping, but that it is one of the more influential factors.

    Yes, you might be playing against your friends, but you will still be within the same game, voice call, etc. As I stated earlier, perhaps any party of 3 or under can be kept together, as that really isn't pub stomping. You bring up the point that it is somehow different playing in a public match than in a MCS or MPS? This solution is basically one of those MCS's, but with additional players. I have seen many parties where some players queue for the opposite team on purpose like in Turf Wars since it is sometimes fun to beat your friends. Additionally, why do so many people play Mixed Arcade in parties, or any other solo game? Sure there are some people who are unwilling to adapt to change, but the majority will stay, and others will join.

    Precisely the point, practice makes perfect. Since most players don't have a rank, and don't have access to a MPS, they have to join public games. And in these public games, where the majority of the time it's a 5 v 4, they aren't going to learn anything. While a balance update might help with not getting spawn killed, I forsee the other team all going ranger and sniping them. If not all just going blood-lust brute.

    Not sure what you are trying to state here? A balance update as previously stated will most likely only bring back old players, those with considerable amounts of experience, who will then form parties and start pub stomping. You claim that simply updating the game, something that will take a lot of developer resources, time, money, etc, is better? There is nothing showing that pub stomping will cease to be that much of an issue if a balance update even comes.

    Thanks for your time in providing feedback!
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 13, 2020 at 8:42 AM,
    Last edited Sep 13, 2020 at 8:53 AM
    GAM and Young_Inventor like this.
  8. There is also no proof that this change will be 100% beneficial either. You're suggesting something that will bring back the players that don't want to be pub-stomped, but as a result make those that want to play with their friends to leave. This suggestion is more detrimental to the game than it is beneficial, if you want to actually make the game better, suggest something to fix the game, not something that prevents people from playing with their friends.

    Pub Stomping is an influential factor in the decline in any game, on any server, ever. But, it is definitely not a valid reason to say "This game is too dead that we shouldn't allow people to play it unless they're solo" because that is absolutely ridiculous. Players shouldn't be forced to go to another game to play with their friends because players are losing interest in playing a game because they keep getting matched up against other players. Not only will that cause players to leave the game itself, but it'll also cause players to leave the network as a whole.

    In any team game, players leaving from one team will put them at a monstrous disadvantage over the other team, but that's the nature of a team game. If you lose players, there's very little you can do to defeat a team with more players. If a team of friends wants to play this specific game and has more experience, they should be allowed to... They should not be prevented just because you want to stop players from being destroyed.

    Other games being played by friends isn't a reason that you can bring in to this and use as a reason that it should be removed from a game that is primarily a team game. Most of the time, those games that are solo games don't have a team mode of more than 2 people, meaning that if they're in a party of more than just 1 person, it would be more beneficial to play against each other so they don't end up getting split into unfair teams and making one person feel left out.

    Your claim that it would be the same as an MPS but with additional players is incorrect, factually and statistically. Your community is made up dominantly of people who know how to play the game and are experienced in it, meaning they're able to go against people who also know how to play the game, but also don't have the possibility of getting random players that they don't know on their team. In a public game, you have the possibility of being teamed with random players that you don't know, and I can tell you now that, in a team game, being matched with players I don't know is one of the main things that pushes me away.

    In situations where you mentioned that the Turf Wars community sometimes actively queue against each other, that's on their own free will, they're optionally choosing to not be teamed with the other players in their party. We should not be forcing players to play against their friends just because some people are tired of getting destroyed over and over again and instead don't just learn how to defeat them. When I first started out playing champions, I had no idea what I was doing, but I spoke to some friends who did know how to play and I actually have a decent sense of how the game works and how to combat most of the abilities in their current state to the best of my ability.

    I'm pretty sure the better change would just to be to disallow damage to be dealt and taken from the spawn points. Preventing parties from playing together is not a good way to combat this. As for your point that new players don't usually have a rank and don't have access to an MPS, that's normal and we shouldn't be preventing players from playing with each other in public games just because other people don't have the capability of playing in a private server. The rank is quite cheap. If they want to access a private server they can purchase a rank from the shop.

    Updating a game is much more suitable in the long run than removing the ability for parties to play together. Preventing players from playing with each other will be a lot more detrimental. Yes, older players coming back to the game will possibly cause people with more experience to play more, but that will cause more lobbies to open, meaning less of a chance that random players get placed against parties. Your suggestion here to prevent parties from playing against each other is not beneficial to the game, and whilst it might work in the short term, I don't see this being a long term solution.
     
    Posted Sep 13, 2020 at 9:06 AM
  9. I'm not saying this will be 100% beneficial. Yes, the people who cannot handle losing their 95% win loss ratios will leave, but if you want to play with your friends you can. And you can see why you can in my posts above. This also will bring new players into Champions. Additionally, parties of 3 and under can be kept together. This is basically the system used in many other games. If 4 of your friends are already in a party in Cake Wars, you just have to get some of your other friends or be patient. I haven't seen any backlash towards any of the other games party systems. That being said, I can only attribute your and other people's anger towards not getting a 95% win loss ratio. Something which is funny in itself, the only thing I have to say to these people is that winning isn't everything.

    In many other games on other servers, there are other preventative measures to take care of pub stomping that are not applicable in this situation. I will go further in depth in your other quotes.

    Unless they are a party of 3 or under, seems like you are quoting my post without even reading it. Perhaps you can rephrase it to "This game has too small a playerbase that we shouldn't allow players in 4 or 5 players to be winning 95% (maybe 100%?) of their games, turning players to move to other games and servers, and overall putting Mineplex in a bad light to do any of those things."

    I'm not sure why I can't use this as a reason? You often have players on different "teams", actively fighting each other. There has been no backlash towards this, so why are you arguing against it?

    You seem to be a special case. Most times, 3 of the teams on Cake Wars are made up of people who randomly queued. Perhaps you can try branching out also? I'm not sure what you mean by being limited to getting random players. They don't effect your gameplay at all. And the goal is that there are equal amounts of new players on each team, so it's balanced and fair.

    The only way to defeat them is by pub stomping. Something which we are trying to avoid.

    Now this is something that would have to go on the balance update right? But even if it were implemented, what would happen? We would still have pub stompers camping outside, and the other people just staying in spawn. Furthermore, how do we detect what is spawn and what is not? Each spawn is of a different size and there are no datapoints to detect the corners of spawn.

    Not everyone is as fortunate as you or me. And I don't think that forcing them to buy a rank to have fun in Champions is the correct way to go.

    I never said this was a long term solution. As soon as Champions appears to gain enough players, perhaps there can be a ranking system or party-only and non-party only gamemodes.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 13, 2020 at 10:26 AM
    Young_Inventor likes this.
  10. Can I point out everyone here has responded with a full essay and I'm just responding with a couple of sentences.

    Fight pub stomping with pub stomping.
    See fight fire with fire:D
     
    Posted Sep 13, 2020 at 10:44 AM
  11. Parties of three can be kept together, yes, but some people want to play with more than just two of their friends. Champions is one of the only games that actually allow that. Splitting them up because of "pub stomping" is just ridiculously stupid.

    The reason Champions lost players is because Mineplex has lost players. Causing more players to quit by making it a game where you can't play with your team will not cause it to get more players.

    It does affect your gameplay. If your team is unable to successfully defend your cake because they're inexperienced in the game, you're going to perform worse in general. In a team game, your team is one of the main things that decide how you play.

    Extra datapoints can be added if needed. Camping outside of spawn is not a game issue, it's a skill issue. If a player is being camped by players outside, they should wait for their team to run in together rather than just running endlessly into a 5v1.

    It's not a valid solution at all, we should not be preventing parties from playing with each other.
     
    Posted Sep 13, 2020 at 11:34 AM
  12. As previously stated many times before, you can still play with your friends, even if it does go over 3 players. You are still in the same lobby, voice call, private msgs, etc. Now if the only things you are talking about in a voice call are strategy and what kit you are going, I don't believe you guys are qualified to call each other friends.

    Do you have any evidence backing that up? In fact you say it yourself "Yes, it may cause a few players that left because of pub stomping to come back to the game". And I would also like to add on, it will bring new players.

    That may be true, but if every team is in the same situation, in the end it doesn't really matter. The only reason why it's frustrating right now, is because the teams aren't balanced.

    Again, this would take some developer time, something which is quite limited. Of course even if they waited to do a 5 v 5, it wouldn't really be a 5 v 5 since one team is made up of much more skilled players. Additionally, they would be much more coordinated.

    As said previously, many times, friends will still be able to play together. That being said, this solution seems like a valid solution.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 13, 2020 at 12:11 PM
    Young_Inventor and Legend998 like this.
  13. Being in the same call does not count as playing with your friends. When you're actively playing against them in the game, you're not exactly having the fun that you joined the game to have. You're missing the point of parties, and doing this completely goes against the point of parties even existing in the first place.

    It won't bring new players unless Mineplex gets more players, which at the moment seems extremely unlikely. And the fact that most of the players that play the game actively seem to like playing with their friends, which is what the game is for, they will likely leave if they can't do that anymore.

    So you're suggesting we split up parties because other people aren't able to get as many friends on to play as them? That just sounds ridiculous.

    Player Skill issue, we shouldn't be splitting up parties because one team is more experienced than another team.

    Read point 1, this solution is not a valid solution and you continue to make the same points that I've proved wrong multiple times.
     
    Posted Sep 13, 2020 at 12:38 PM
  14. I feel as though I might be repeating some points people, and myself, have made previously on this post but I just want to acknowledge something. I definitely see how splitting up parties in Champions could have a positive effect on trying to make the teams as fair as possible for those newer players that join. But, you also have to consider that even if newer players decide to play Champions, that still leaves a player skill gap between the veterans and newer players. I think most newer players leave Champions, not solely because of 'pub-stomping' but, also because of the fact that Champions is a hardcore game-mode. It's very difficult to learn on your own and is something that takes a lot of time in order to fully comprehend the classes and their various skills. I believe this is what @Heliology was trying to explain on one of their earlier posts where they went over this reason being another big part as to why newer players don't stick in this game for very long.

    In relation to the player skill gap, this is where the idea of having some form of introduction/guide to help newer players ease into the game better would come in handy. Yes, this will definitely take a lot of time to create and to push out and to make sure it does its purpose of helping newer players become more accustom to the game. Though, I really do think something like this could be a solution to the issue of newer players getting frustrated with the current difficulty of the game and then leaving. Honestly, had I had something like that when I first originally tried to play back in 2015, I probably would've stayed and not waited an entire year to get the courage to try again. I do think, however, an idea like that needs to be developed way more in order for it to function properly.

    I'm going to single out this quote in specific because Turf Wars is my main game and I've been able to watch the community for a really long time. In fact, pub-stomping is extremely prevalent in this game as well. Especially over the past few years and the scenarios in which people decide to queue against their own teammates are very rare occasions. Most of the time you can find a pretty decent sized party of 4-7 players that run an entire lobby for hours; this was not the case back in the earlier years. The TF community also runs pretty heavily on winning now, and people play with friends in order to achieve that quicker, similar to the Champions community. This leads me to my point, and a point that has been mentioned before as well, that a lot of pub-stomping issues are overly noticed today because of how low of a player count Mineplex has currently in comparison to lets say.. 2015-16? Because of that, there are very few lobbies and very rarely any higher than 30 players playing at a time (from what I see, I typically get on later in the day though so that could be a reason as to why). There were parties doing the exact same thing back in the earlier years and only since the dramatic lowered player count have people began to call out this behavior.

    Again, I do see your point and I would not mind the implementation of randomized parties in Champions, but I don't think it'll have the big outcome of attracting new players. This kind of relates to the point you stated in which the newer players that come from this update, the randomization of parties, could also just be a short term fuel for the game. I also feel like an issue with this idea is that splitting up 4-5 player parties would just result in excessive teaming which could result in these parties not bothering to play against one another. This in return would still make the game for newer players a 'bad experience' because a big chunk of their team is no longer trying to play the objective; this very well could be a stretch, but there is a possibility of this happening which is something else that needs to be considered in my opinion.
     
    Posted Sep 13, 2020 at 7:24 PM
    Heliology likes this.
  15. I'm not saying that it is going to be exactly the same before, but now it is going to incorporate some newer elements that can be found in other gamemodes. Take Death Tag for example. Many players are still in parties and yet they find themselves actively playing against them. Part of the point of parties is to be in the same lobby, the other part is to be on the same team. Of course the second part of the point will be removed if the party is greater than 3, but considering this will benefit the rest of the lobby, I believe it is worth it. Furthermore, you stress the point of parties is to play with friends. I have seen many parties that are made up of people who never met each other before, partying for the sole purpose of winning 95% of their games. Many friends often go against each other to see who is better, so this system could also benefit those players.

    I'm talking about new players from within Mineplex, not outside players (unless they were not fans of pub stomping).

    Now you can see in this video, what pub stomping looks like:



    I'm talking about Hent99, StandingThyme81 (It really seems like they could've become an avid champs player), and ingchilo982. Champions is relying on these players to join games, and the only reason it's surviving, is because they are cycling out.

    Additionally here you can see what I mean about friends. After further conversing, it seemed like Voltajirr nor Vit13 were friends with the other people in their party. And while Apollo and Hyperspace were friends, they stuck on the other team. I also like to add that this will most likely make the Champs community less toxic in which you won't have scenarios like at 18:35, where you have a 3 v 1 and 3 taunts occurring. Moreover, I find it odd that it is somehow fair for one of their friends to join and then immediately leave when the game starts to make the teams even more unbalanced.

    I'm just going to quote myself from earlier, since it seems like you aren't reading what I wrote:

    "This game has too small a playerbase that we shouldn't allow players in 4 or 5 players to be winning 95% (maybe 100%?) of their games, turning players to move to other games and servers, and overall putting Mineplex in a bad light to do any of those things."

    It is a player skill issue, and in that environment where the majority of the time you are getting 2 v 1ed or 3 v 1ed, you aren't going to gain any skill. Additionally, the partied team are obviously going to be more coordinated especially if they are in a voice call.

    Yes read point 1 also.

    Everybody who has ever played Champs was a new comer at one point. So why did we stay? Because back when we started, we were in an environment where we could actually learn and become more skillful. This simply isn't the current environment where each and every lobby there is a party full of pub stompers. I would like to have an in-game tutorial, but that would take a lot of Developer time, and due to that, it would probably take a couple of months to years to actually release.

    I'm not sure what your point is here? Pub stomping has always been an issue but has become more prevalent due to the decreased player counts. Bringing a balance update will make it more extensive as many of the more skillful players who left because of unfair skills and abilities, will now come back.

    I would like to see cross teaming in 2 team gamemodes a bannable offense to combat this.

    One last thing. I wrote this thread so I wouldn't have to witness moments like these:





    It seems horrible that people actually glean pleasure from this, and I ask you, are you really playing with friends since it is fun to be on the same team as them, or are you doing it so you can boost your stats and gain enjoyment from moments like these?
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 14, 2020 at 8:27 AM,
    Last edited Sep 14, 2020 at 8:35 AM
    GAM, Young_Inventor and Legend998 like this.
  16. Hey, bob maybe if you were to use your eyes, you'd see that Champions is under Hardcore. Meaning, the game isn't supposed to appeal to new players. The game is made for players with a decent background in pvp and combat. Meaning they should play intermediate combat games and not jump into a game as difficult as Champions.
    Tying back to the video that you linked, getting out've that situation is easy. However, instead of using game sense and choosing to use hold position level field cleave, you tried rushing into a 4v1 as a default assassin. And as you previously stated before, there's an option of leaving the lobby while a party is doing that. Seeing as you constantly do it in DOM and put your teammates at a disadvantage at the start of the game by leaving, this shouldn't be an issue.

    Now to address your post. Randomizing parties will do nothing for the champions community, but make it harder for players to win. For example, since cross teaming is and will never be bannable in champions, people will be able to truce while being in the same party. Secondly, by the addition of your "fix," players will be able to get spawn killed more easily since their teammates will be truced with them due to them being in a party. Just because you're unable to play smart against a party, doesn't mean that you have to elongate this thread any longer. Finally, I find it pretty strange that you said, and I quote "I will no longer be kicking people from the com for pub stomping [and stopping people from joining the com]," but yet you treat the com as if it's staffrequest, and kick players for playing in their respective parties, as well as voicing their opinions in your com. You claim that the com is for the revival of CTF, but yet penalize people for playing the actual game. This you? Additionally, you give Co-Leader to people who suck up to you as well as staff who don't even know how to use a single kit properly, rather than players with extensive backgrounds in champions. What logic is that? If partying is an aspect of the game that makes it fun, who are you to tell others they're not allowed to?

    K1TEGOD has spoken.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2020 at 1:57 PM
  17. This time people don't want to see who's better or not, and discord calls are used to party specifically to them, and in MCS calls I only recall people talking because typing takes longer, or were just talking in a party. Champs will get popular once staff stop being cynical about reports, and Devs stop being lazy (except gyro) (Don't say they have lives, I know that, but even so, they work at the pace of a snail), and get to work. If you look at updates, last one was a year or something. Also if you can't handle people using the emoji taunt, you should really think about that. Pub stomping can be fixed if again, devs get to work, and staff stop being cynical (They never listen to Champs reports at all but CW or chat offenses they're like "OMG OMW"). If you're getting 2v1ed or 3v1ed, bring a teammate lol, and stick with them. Besides, you can bring friends as well, or party some sweats to fight back, but with someone like you who considers emoji taunt "toxic", champs sweat probably wouldn't be people who'd party you. If parties are randomized and cross teaming is randomized, you may as well just kill champs as old players will quit, and apparently since it makes a decent playbase of champs it'll be even harder to start lobbies, which probably won't attract new players, once mp gets more popular in general and champs is updated in general for game balancing and fresh content, MP champs will have the problem of pub stomping mitigated.
     
    Posted Sep 16, 2020 at 1:53 PM
    ✨Aƚʅαɳɳαƈ✨ likes this.
  18. When I say new players, I'm talking about players that have decent backgrounds in pvp and combat, but are new to Champions, having never tried it before.

    Maybe if I could reach the kit NPC I would :shrug:

    And I'm not sure what you mean by me leaving at the beginning of a game. That itself is almost as bad as pub stomping.

    It will make it harder for pub stompers to get 95% win loss ratios, that I agree with, but for the rest of the players, winning will become significantly easier.

    Rules committee is always looking for community feedback on which rules could and should be changed, and given all the positive feedback on my thread, there's a possibility it could becoming bannable.

    I'm unsure on why you are talking about me on this thread when the topic is randomizing parties in champions. I only kick players from the community if they are excessively toxic. For example, your ban from the community was due to excessive toxicity that simply isn't needed in CTF lobbies. For more information, feel free to do /ph in-game. I don't penalize anybody for playing the actual game. I give co-leader to people that are trustworthy, and obviously being friends will make me trust a person.

    I'm fine with people playing in a party, this idea isn't meant to penalize them, and more so people who pub stomp. People in parties of 3 or less will still stick together on the same team, and you can read my previous posts for more elaboration on why it's justified.

    Staff aren't cynical, and staffrequest is completely optional. What staffrequest is, is a community with a lot of staff in it, with a fancy color scheme, and an admin as the leader. You are more than welcome to submit a forum report and it will be guaranteed to be looked at. Developers aren't lazy either, as most of their work are behind the scenes, especially since Moppletop is only part-time. In the past year, there have been 7 updates not 1.

    The portion of the video was not meant to show that "I can't handle the emoji taunt", but how toxic the Champs community has become over the years due to pub stomping. Shunorim, someone who much of the champs community respects (including you I believe), details more in this thread. Fighting fire with fire with not the right solution. It just expands the fire.

    The old players who are unable to bear seeing their 95% win loss ratios being taken from them will leave, no doubt about that. But it will allow for players that are new to Champions to join, as well as bringing players who have left due to pub stomping. If Champs gets an update, something that will take a long time, I replacing this solution with another like a party only and solo only gamemodes. Up until then, this is the best solution.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 16, 2020 at 2:51 PM
    Young_Inventor likes this.
  19. From my experience, staff seem to be a bit cynical on the inside or i must be really unlucky for champs reports to have like a 1/30 acceptance rate and other reports for other stuff like an 8/10 acceptance rate for reports to be listened to. I don't see too many toxicity in the game according to chat, cross teaming/spawn killing can be resolved by simple fixes/rule changing, pub stomping can be fixed with the proper game balancing. Yes, there's a lack of devs, but I don't know how the server manages with 1 forum dev, 1 part time and 1 full time (Sobki's full time iicr), and bedrock does (actually tbh you can say its gyro working hard for the server and listening to the community). Old players (veterans) on the server make up around 50% of the champs playerbase, so it'll be a lot harder to start games, we can't really risk having many people quit and it becoming super hard to make games, as people will be like "I'm not willing to play it if it takes this ******* long." I'm not trying to defend veterans, I'm also trying to defend to not kill champs, as this update can kill off champs as a whole. Pub stomping pub stompers wouldn't spread the fire, as you can't party with more then 8 people, if MP listens to the community, they can make partying in 2 teams bannable and you can fight back pub stomping by pub stomping. If dev work is behind the scenes, how did MP die so much over the past years. And why do I have to take like 30 minutes of my time just to get 1 person banned, it's annoying staff make us have to do this rather then save time by a lot. And even if it never comes, I'd rather have that then have this update where you can't work together with your friends. And if MP devs work behind the scenes, how is MP been at a relatively low players for years? And there's like 3-4 update you can expect a year in total in updates, and most of the updates were from gyroninja, an active full time dev. So yeah this will kill champs as parties is part of the reason why MP champs is alive, as they make like 2/5 of the requirement for the game.

    Also you can maybe try a bit harder to get ctf to gain players so the issue of pub stomping mitigates? Ik if more people who are non pub-stompers join theres more lobbies without pub stomps which means less chance to find a pub stomping lobby.

    Edit: I probably said cynical wrong, I could've said favoritism, staff have favoritism in certain games. I have like a ~15% chance for my champs reports to be listened to and I've probably made 15-20 reports on champs bc of those people who proxy the flag, when on anything else I can say like an ~80% chance? And I've made a bunch of reports on other stuff back when I used to Staffrequest for every little thing. Basically some reason it's a lot more likely to get your report listened to when you're not reporting for champs some reason, maybe it could be a coincidence but I doubt it could be when I usually play/report at the peak of MP.
     
    Posted Sep 16, 2020 at 9:16 PM,
    Last edited Sep 17, 2020 at 8:05 AM
    Arshaad_73 likes this.

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