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Quit Culture in Cake Wars

Discussion in 'Server Discussion' started by CodingJS, May 18, 2021.

  1. Hello everyone,
    I am making this post today to bring awareness to the quit culture that is plaguing Cake Wars.

    What is quit culture?

    Quit culture is when a party of 4 joins a Cake Wars lobby, notices the presence of another party of 4, and then leaves the game after it starts.

    For example: Party A is in a cake wars lobby. Party B joins the lobby before the game starts. The game begins. Party B leaves the game because they don't want to play against party A.
    This effectively leads to party A having no competition and getting an easy win.

    For solo players, this makes the game very frustrating and difficult to win because they have to play against one skilled team that is likely communicating on discord. Meanwhile, the solo player has to play with 3 random players who have no idea what they're doing. It is almost impossible for the solo player to win because their teammates can't pvp and spend the entire game camping the item generator.

    As someone who plays solo most of the time, it is very frustrating going up against these parties every single game! It is almost impossible to win 1v2, 1v3, and 1v4 situations.
    Every other game, the party will rush your cake and make it impossible for you to cover your cake in time.
    It is easier for a solo player to win the game when there are 2 good parties in a lobby, mainly focusing on fighting each other.

    Parties quitting games is not an isolated occurrence either: it happens nearly every game.
    Why are 2 good teams always afraid to play each other? It's like they just want the easy win every time.
    Isn't competition what makes the game enjoyable? It can't be fun to win every single Cake Wars game with no difficulty.

    I love Cake Wars, but I've had enough going up against these parties that just end the game in under 5 minutes because they have no other competition.
    It simply isn't enough to be a "good player" in Cake Wars. The only way to win Cake Wars games now are to have 3 friends to play with who know what they're doing.

    What do you guys think about quit culture?
    What do you think about the so called "sweaty teams?"
    Should there be a solo mode added to Cake Wars where there are still 4 teams a 4, but parties are prohibited?
     
    Posted May 18, 2021,
    Last edited May 18, 2021
  2. I don't play a lot of CW but I think I know what you're talking about. What you are referring to as Quit Culture I think can also be called dodging and it doesn't just occur in CW. Since dodging occurs in games other than just CW, I don't think there is a lot that can be done about it, if you are seeking a change. I really don't feel that sweaty teams ruin the game, they're simply playing the game like everyone else, and if one team wants to dodge thats their choice. Seeing that duos is already an option, I don't see any need for a new CW option. I understand that playing Cake wars by yourself is going to be a lot harder, but I also prefer to playing cake wars with friends if I am going for a win. If you are really frustrated that your team doesn't know what they're doing I would really suggest finding a party to play in. Cake wars is also a team game, so I find it better if you know your teammates rather than being randomly assigned.
     
    Posted May 18, 2021
    Paladise likes this.
  3. Duos is fun but I normally don't like to play it because the map layout is very spread out and different.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted May 18, 2021
  4. It can be frustrating for sure, currently though, that can be a common occurrence at times and that's just the way it is. We just have to accept the reality of it I guess. I honestly wish it didn't exist, but there's nothing we can do about it.

    Players practice and skill comes from time and dedication. I don't want to label them as "sweaty teams" but rather people who have practiced and are utilizing a method of gameplay they're entitled to. When players party up and form up teams, they're simply using a good strategy that might lead to more wins.

    I'm going to have to say no to this right now as I don't think it would make much sense when thinking of the current overall culture of the server and the player count. I don't think it would be justified in adding a mode that prohibits parties as you can easily avoid being stuck against a party yourself and essentially counterattack.

    Pull the ultimate Uno-reverse card if you can; find players who enjoy playing the game and see if you can form up a team yourself. At times, the lobby dodging or "quit culture" is just something that may be inevitable and it's something that would be very difficult to control. I'm sure you could find players around the server who would want to team up for Cake Wars and you could always connect with others and add them as a friend in-game, from there, who knows? Maybe you'll form up a solid group to party with for Cake Wars. I think this can be a way to ease off the level of frustration to the very least.
     
    Posted May 19, 2021
  5. Quit Culture is the fact that either 1) A party is too weak to take on another party and doesn't want to embrace a loss by staying the game or 2) A party has cheaters on it that haven't been dealt with and will result in an immediate loss. In any case, it's strange that if the leaving party consisted of alts, this situation would be considered boosting. Parties can do this knowingly to clear out lobbies for their friends in a party.

    I think the best course of action would be if the game didn't start at all if people quit, and the people who quit receive a warning which will lead to a penalty timer for their next queues. Perhaps the game could start, but the dodging players simply receive a penalty timer. This would allow the actual players not to get punished for the actions of third-party-contenders.

    In all the games I've played in the past month the most frequent dodgers are solo queuers who do not want to stay a game against a party. That being said, I'm confident that if all the solo queuers had stayed in the game, the game would've been entertaining/exciting for all players.

    On top of that, parties refuse to gain experience by staying against better parties and only want to farm 1-2 minute wins. The newer generation of players does just this. That's how a lot of players have 'farmed' over 5k wins this year alone. These win farmers in turn chase away a bigger portion of the playerbase, because why would new players stay if the current playerbase simply leaves games against better people, for them to get cleaned up within 2 minutes.
    It makes the game boring, repetitive, and simply not worth playing. There is nothing to learn, all you can do is hope to buy endstone before the red team shows up. I am confident that if everybody just accepted the fact their lobby is going to be a tough one but would stay nonetheless, the game experience would be much more enjoyable.
     
    Posted May 19, 2021
    gpsqueixo, ItsFree, WowCaleb and 4 others like this.
  6. I'm a pretty regular Cake Wars player myself and being not-so-good, I can see where you're coming from. This "quit culture" is a thing in almost every game but since Cake Wars Standard is a 4v4v4v4, it's easier to notice when a team dodges the lobby. This normally happens when another team knows they won't win so they leave. Honestly, playing against parties significantly better than you is really frustrating and leaving is just the better option sometimes. The Cake Wars community is small so you'll often see the same players. This makes it easy to know if you're up against people way better than you, similar, or worse. I know I don't stay when I know the opposing team is gonna wipe the floor with me. I don't think it's fair to be mad at how people play the game though, communicating through discord and playing in a party is normal and the majority of players do it.

    I can totally see where you come from and I'd advise you to find a team to play with. Playing a game solo and getting put on a team with random people is always going to be difficult, especially when you're up against a full party. You can stop by the Mineplex discord (discord.mineplex.com) and go to the channel labelled "looking-for-party" or you can always ask people in-game.

    As for solo mode, a lot of players want to see that come to Java and I'm not against it either. The thing is, we can't implement a 3rd mode for Cake Wars due to the low player count. Dividing the Cake Wars player base into 3 wouldn't be beneficial at all and would only make the queueing time for games longer. Cake Wars Standard is pretty popular and always has lobbies to join but duos doesn't have as many players so finding a lobby takes a while sometimes. To add a solo mode we would either have to, A: remove Cake Wars duos or B: get more players on Cake Wars. I'm not entirely against removing duos since it already isn't as popular as standard but I wonder if it'll cause conflict for people who main duos (if anyone).

    I'm sorry you feel this way and I hope you take my advice and find a party. Thank you for taking the time to make this thread :)
     
    Posted May 19, 2021
  7. Hey,

    As mentioned previously, Quit Culture is definitely present in many gamemodes across mineplex, I've noticed it in Skywars, SSM, Champions, and even Mixed Arcade to a smaller degree. While its present in other modes, it's definitely the most significant in Cakewars because of the competitive 4v4v4v4 format.
    That aside, I completely understand how this can come across as frustrating, and I completely understand how Cakewars is an extremely frustrating and borderline unplayable gamemode solo. Quit Culture is frustrating, but something that, in my eyes, really can't be changed. Cakewars Standard is, while not intentionally, built for parties rather than solo play. It is extremely challenging to join in solo and have an enjoyable time, even if you have an easy lobby. Because of this, it really demotivates new players from joining the game which is an obvious problem.

    As Siee mentioned, it's unfair to be mad at players for playing the game in this particular style, when being successful usually calls for it. I also quit when i'm in a game against a team I recognize because I just can't be bothered to play a full game against an extremely skilled competitive team, while I myself am more casual.

    The Solo Gamemode is something i've been intrigued with for awhile. Cakewars is entirely driven towards parties and teams, having a solo gamemode would have the potential to grow the community and appeal to a more casual community, knowing that it's solo would eliminate the possibility of being outnumbered for solo players attempting to play Standard or Duos. The most common argument against adding a gamemode within a gamemode is splitting the community. Numbers are low network wide, that's no secret, and splitting up numbers further will always be a risk. For me personally, i'd rather focus on new games, new implementations that would give users outside of Mineplex a new and unique reason to join the server. With all of that said, I'm not necessarily against the idea, however, I don't see it being absolutely necessary at this time.

    To tie it all back together, Quit Culture will always be a factor. Mineplex being a somewhat smaller network allows for the same group of players to be seen in game frequently, and with Cakewars that's no different. Adding a Solo Mode would most likely help with the issue of solo players having a tough time playing Cakewars, but in my opinion it wouldn't have any effect on the current Quit Culture the server has.

    I totally get where you're coming from and I'm sorry you're dealing with this issue, I recommend trying to ask around and join some parties as it really does make the game more enjoyable.
     
    Posted May 19, 2021
    ItsMqrk, ItsFree and siee like this.
  8. I don't think lobby dodging is necessarily bad, but I don't really think it's healthy for the game either. I don't think it should be punishable. So many people do this. It isn't just in cw. There's also many reasons for why someone would dodge. Yes, it's undoubtably true that people do it just because they care about wins too much, but aren't looking for a challenge. But there are other reasons for why people would dodge- inconfidence of their own skills, playing against a cheater or someone they find generally annoying.

    This is something I go through. I play SSM and I dodge. And no, I don't do it every time I think I'm gonna lose. I like playing against good players. It's more fulfilling than killing 3 noobs 4 times in 2 minutes. But what I don't like is playing against people that can't help but use cheap strats to win. (It's SSM. There's a ton of scummy things to do in that game.) I'm not gonna play with someone who I know is just gonna run for the whole game. Games like that are absolute hell. I'm not gonna play with someone who I know cheats, and I'm not gonna play with someone who I know to be toxic. And I'm not usually fond of leaderboard sweats either, but I don't leave every time I run into one.

    With all that being said, I think dodging is just a normal part of the game. If you don't like who you're playing with, then there's nothing to stop you from leaving. However, I think that leaving just for the sake of stat boosting is cheap, and I know that there's a lot of that going on in cw. I do agree that they should add a solo game mode. It's something that has been debated over a lot, and I think the excuse for not adding it is that the playerbase is not high enough. However, I think it should be added anyways, since lots of people are in favor of it. But other than that, there is probably no real way of getting rid of lobby dodgers. I don't think it should be punishable.
     
    Posted May 19, 2021
  9. I'd love to see queue dodge penalties for players who leave more than a game or two while it's in progress within some set amount of time. Would solve a couple of issues serverwide.
     
    Posted May 19, 2021
    Fusafez likes this.
  10. If you know you will lose you fold.
    Solo Cake Wars would be good, but there is not a big enough player base.
     
    Posted May 20, 2021
    Paladise likes this.
  11. -1
    I personally think that it'll just complicate things, I understand your frustration tho!
    Good luck!
    FlamezMC
     
    Posted May 20, 2021
  12. You never know if you will lose until you play it - carelessness is the downfall of the bigger parties
     
    Posted May 20, 2021
  13. This lol, my parties lose more to randoms taking the cake than we do to actual teams
     
    Posted May 20, 2021
  14. Just have to put my 2 cents here because I play PC & Console games, this is always gonna happen. No matter what, yeah it sucks and annoying, but the only way I would find a way to fix this is kinda like a player commendation/reputation system. (Which won’t be developed or implemented into Mineplex anytime soon)

    Xbox for example, you can report someone for leaving early. Not necessarily negative outcome whereas you’ll get communication banned or get an Xbox live ban, but it’s harder for that individual to matchmake when searching for online games in any game. They get paired up with other players that also have a bad reputation. The only way for it to go back up & be considered a “good sport” is to not leave or get reported.

    Overwatch is another good example, they have the built-in commendation got good sport, shot caller or whatever (I haven’t played in a long time so Idk if they added any new ones). But this also helps the system just matchmake better commended & better reputated (not a word) individuals/groups with others.
     
    Posted May 20, 2021
    mab8400 and Fusafez like this.
  15. Hello there, I would like to comment on a few things that you pointed out in your thread!
    Cake Wars is a game that is formed of teams of 4 players. You can choose the players that you team with, and you are not required to play the game alone. If you are not in a party, you will be teamed with players randomly and it is not fair to call them bad and say that they are ruining your game. By playing the game alone you agree to be teamed randomly with players that might not be experienced, and it is not fair from you to expect them to be so. If you do not like having random teammates, I suggest playing in a party, otherwise, working and communicating with your random teammates might actually work out better than you think! Also, if you do not like facing parties of 4, I suggest that you try playing Cake Wars Duos as it is quite easier to win these games alone.
    Competition is enjoyable for some players, for others though, it is enjoyable to team up with other experienced teammates and try to get as many wins as possible in a short period of time. There is nothing wrong with this, and they are not playing the game to ruin the other people's experience, they just like gaining those wins and experience as fast as possible. If you see a party of 4 experienced players that you might not want to play against, I suggest leaving the lobby and queueing for Cake Wars again, which will most likely place you in a lobby that is easier to win in.
    I would personally like to see a Solo Cake Wars mode, and that is something I would definitely be interested in playing.
     
    Posted May 21, 2021
  16. I completely agree with your comment because it is definitely frusturating when you enter a game and your teamate will leave, it puts you at a disadvantage and also makes you want to leave. I hope there could be a small penalty for leaving right when the game starts.
     
    Posted May 21, 2021
    Paladise likes this.
  17. Hi, I believe I can offer some insight into this situation. My (regular) parties have never folded anyone before, because everyone else folds us - due to presence of highly skilled players or blatant cheaters. People don't want to play against a party because then games take 20-30 minutes long and no one has fun because someone ends up doming up the mid and box camping for 10 minutes. Usually when I am with pretty good players, I tend to stay. When I play with some egirls and dogwater randoms I usually fold to avoid getting pubstomped.

    Again, this would be avoided by adding a solo gamemode, but Mineplex's playerbase is way to small to be able to launch such a gamemode. As Josh says above, bigger parties tend to overestimate their capabilities, and I find myself in games cleaning the other party in the lobby, but then my cake gets eaten by a random.

    Please try your best to do so, and perhaps find a party - so you don't get stomped. I hope to see you in game and crush your dreams!
     
    Posted May 22, 2021
  18. Hello there!
    I have played Cake Wars quite a bit so I feel comfortable expressing my opinion on this matter!
    I too, usually play Cake Wars by myself and I completely understand how you feel, however, it is important to understand why this happens and that nobody is trying to ruin anybody's experience on the network.
    I assume that the parties who leave lobbies with other parties play mostly to gain wins quickly and efficiently, which is more difficult when there is another experienced party in the game, so they leave the game in order to prevent long games and save up time.
    This is completely understandable, and it is fair enough that some players would rather play quick games and gain more wins in a shorter time period than play a more difficult, competitive game.
    It might not favor people who do not have a party, however, working with your teammates actually works most of the time if you try your best. I suggest communicating with your random teammates more in order to win more games!
    Cake Wars is also a game that is more suitable to play in a party, as teams of four are present, so naturally playing alone is more difficult and it is harder to win this way. I also suggest playing in a party whenever possible in order to win more games.
    Keep in my that this is just my opinion and that you are free to disagree, as long as you provide constructive and reasonable arguments as to why my opinion might be inaccurate.
    Have a great day!
     
    Posted May 23, 2021
  19. hello, I understand most of your concerns but I wanted to elaborate a bit.
    What you refer to as 'quit culture' is more commonly known as dodging in the gaming community. In my opinion, this is perfectly okay to do. Everyone dodges, but this isn't necessarily because of 'sweaty teams' alone but I'll get into that later.

    Unfortunately, all these issues lead back to the idea that Mineplex is a tight-knit community due to it's low player count. Everyone knows each other, and so chances of a party dodging another party is very high. This could be due to a) like you said, 'sweaty team,' b) friends that don't want to play against each other, and c) the most important one, the abundance of hackers and closeters that have not yet been dealt with. 99% of the time, my cw party dodges well-known closeters because we know it's not worth our time and none of us want to stress about gathering enough evidence to submit a report to QA, because this process is extremely tedious and time consuming. Sadly, there are not enough QA members to deal with closeters because it can be very difficult to determine if someone is legitimately hacking due to many factors, one being a person's ping. Some hacks are barely noticable and can give people a very slight advantage, and it is difficult to get evidence that would be considered sufficient enough for these players to receive the appropriate punishment.

    Whether you like it or not, cw duos and standards technically aren't meant for solo players, unless you WANT a challenge. I understand why it's frustrating, but this again ties back to Mineplex's low player count. There so few players that the chances of you joining back a game with someone you've seen in the past are high. This would be a whole other discussion if it were a more popular server.

    In general, you shouldn't be playing cw solo unless you're up for the challenge, and the 'sweaty team'/'quit culture' issue you discussed is more so a hacking problem. These are just my thoughts about this.
     
    Posted May 24, 2021
    Pelagic likes this.
  20. I agree with most of what siee has said here. "Quit culture" is a big deal now due to all of the professional players playing which casual players do not like. Everytime I play, I do the same thing by dodging the sweats in the lobby. Sometimes it gets to the point to where we just go to Nano because there are too many sweats playing, and we aren't good ourselves so this is what we move to. As a fellow member of the quit culture, I do see how it's annoying, not just in Cake Wars, but in other main games such as Speed Builders and such. Besides that, I'm hoping a solo mode for CW does eventually come out as that is highly liked by the community and by me, but we'll see what happens.

    What do you mean by this will complicate things? Just trying to get a better view of what you're stating
     
    Posted May 24, 2021
    ItsMqrk, siee and Eqsa like this.

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