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Discussion in 'Survival Games' started by mab8400, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. SG needs three nerfs;

    1. Horse kit is way too fast, the horses need to be slowed. I have noticed a copious amount of people complaining that they have 0 chance of escaping whatsoever, and are left in the dust. I ask many people if they think it should be nerfed or not; most are very agreeing. Maybe weaken the horses so that players can kill the horse and potentially escape. I am not totally sure, but it may improve everyone's chance of having fun.

    2. Rods either need a cool-down, or need to be removed all together. While it might upset the people who practice it a lot, it is best for everyone. Why? Just look at the leaderboards of SG, the same players are on it, all of whom use the rod tactic(which is very skillful don't get me wrong). If you look at Presiident's recent stats, he has accumulated around 100 wins in just 3 days. Look at the bottom of the board, and it will note a player with only 20-30 wins. It is ridiculous. If someone (or a select few) gets nearly 30+ wins in a DAY, that is quite evident that change is needed. You might say "Just learn it yourself". Great point! That is something that a handful of people (like myself) think of doing. However, I believe in a fair fight, and would not want that type of advantage over the average player who doesn't even know what rodding is. Change is needed, just as minecraft has gotten new updates, Mineplex needs them as well.

    3. Axeman needs a cooldown. I have noticed a really clever and smart technique by multiple high-stat players who load their inventory with axes, and go beserk on a player by throwing around 3-5 axes in a row. Its a great concept and I have tried it many times, but it has gotten to the point that it just doesn't allow for a real battle. After hucking a few, the opponent is left with less than half their lives, and can be killed in a few (or even just 1) hit. That doesn't promote a very good ethic for players with other kits, considering that it is a default kit anyways.

    The reason I made this thread is to spread balance. Leveling out the playing styles makes it more enjoyable for everyone, not just a select few. Thanks for reading!

    Posted Jun 11, 2019
    JMPhase likes this.
  2. Howdy!

    I like what you are saying with number one and three, but I really disagree with number two. While rodding can seem overpowered, it doesn't win a fight. I took a year long break from Minecraft, and when I got on I decided to pvp. I played gladiators for a bit and even without using a rod against rod users, I won a majority of fights. I know gladiators isn't SG, but with all the abilities available I don't thing rods should be nerfed. I wouldn't say to add a cooldown or remove rods, but maybe make the chance to find them lower. Plus it isn't terribly hard to learn how to rod (for me at least) I learned how to rod just as good as any other guy in a matter of thirty minutes. In my opinion rods are like just quickly drawing a bow back and firing an arrow, but a rod can be used faster. If you take away the rods or add a cooldown, more people would find another replacement for a fishing rod that could possibly be better, you'd be suprised . Which in my opinion takes away from the experience. I respect your opinions and see where you are coming from but I do not agree with number two.

    Have a good day,
    Posted Jun 11, 2019
  3. As @WackityQuack said, 1 and 3 are reasonable changes that I agree with. However rods aren't overpowered. For one they do no damage, and two you could turn around with a bow and do damage and hit them away. Removing rods is uncalled for, but those two kits do need nerfs.
    Posted Jun 11, 2019
  4. Yo!

    (Each number is the response to your statement)

    1. I agree somewhat in that the Horse needs a slight nerf, but I don't agree with reducing the speed of the horse. Even if you reduce the speed of the horse, they'll still be able catch up to anyone regardless. Reducing the speed of the horse would essentially just make it slightly worse, for no reason. Instead, I think we should slightly tone down it's health. Reducing it's health would reduce the horseman's ability to cruise around and keep fighting, and can give other players a breather when their horse dies.

    2. I disagree completely. Rods add a lot of variation and flavor to battles, removing it because players "don't know it exists" is an invalid argument because players who have no experience with rods will encounter them in games and subsequently, learn how to use and play against them. Skilled players don't get wins only because they know how to use a rod, they get wins because they know all sorts of different tactics and methods and combine them to become excellent fighters. There are plenty of things new players don't know, but that doesn't mean we should remove those things, they just have to learn and practice how to use them.

    3. I completely completely agree! There's almost no counter play to them and they just do too much damage. I propose implementing a limit of how many you can throw consecutively. Perhaps 3 at a time, then having a 10 second cool down.

    Interested in other's feedback

    Have a nice day :D
    Posted Jun 11, 2019
  5. The Horseman kit is also an important Achievement kit which means that it isn't prevalently accessible. Additionally, excellent counters to the Horseman kit already exist in the game; you can use throwing axes, bow and arrow, or hop in a nearby building/body of water where the Horse can't travel. I don't agree with nerfing its speed because Horseman is positioned and appealing as a mobility kit, and I really don't believe its current state is detrimental to the state of the game.

    Fishing Rods always have been a viable strategy in the Minecraft community, and the Mineplex community isn't an exception. Removing rods would serve very little purpose other than catering to the players who don't/can't/refuse to learn and use the strategy, and I can't think of a viable reason fishing rods would be removed.

    This is an interesting point that I never actually considered. On the one hand, I can see how lining your hotbar with axes and spamming them could be considered overpowered, but at the same time, it's simply maximizing an element of the kit and the kit has maintained these features in their current form for the majority (if not the entirety) of Survival Games's existence and I see no real reason to change it now.

    I'll be forwarding this thread to our Game Insights team responsible for Survival Games. Thanks for sharing your proposals and thoughts with us!
    Posted Jun 11, 2019
  6. Agree with 3 only. Horse.. really isn't that good, with pretty much the only purpose being to clean players. If you nerf it's ability to clean, it really is just a kit that makes it harder for you to strafe and not much else. For rods, I really do feel like the game would be more enjoyable if they were to be removed altogether and the game was made more casual, but it seems like I am a minority opinion on this, so I think the greatest amount of players would like to see them remain unchanged. A cool down on it would just make it weird and clunky for people used to rodding, I say either remove them totally, or leave them as they are.
    Posted Jun 11, 2019
  7. Heyo!

    Regarding your concerns about the horsemen kit, I have to disagree for the most part. There are quite a few downfalls to the kit, and I’ve experiences a lot of them after having the kit for years. The main downfall are rods themselves with the whole aspect of pulling the horse back. In addition, if the speed of the horse is what makes the kit special. Achievement kits are supposed to be unique and rather good. In my eyes, the kit is used to get away, and that’s it. However, I do believe the horse could you a health nerf, as it can be quite hard to hit the opponent with the horse in the way. Overall, I can definitely see arguments for both sides, but personally I would leave the kit to a health nerf before any larger measures are taken. Have a good day! :)
    Posted Jun 12, 2019
  8. I agree a lot with the comments that note the horses health rather than speed, that is actually a point I forgot to mention. I know that #2 is quite a big no-no for nearly all players, but I am very sure of its over-poweredness. I have fought a very high number of "pro" rodders, and have NEVER won a battle, not just that, but I have never gotten more than 1-2 hits on them. It's not a matter of "its always been here" which seems to be a really popular opinion. I started playing mc in 2011, and even back in 2015 I did not notice many rodders to be totally honest. Rodding is probably the most over-powered of all of these in my own view. I guess it will always be here, but I find it odd playing a game where a hook and line are the main weapons. If rodding is really not as bad as you all are saying, then I definitely believe it could be a possible cheating thing going on, I'm not totally sure. Thanks though
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jun 12, 2019
  9. I appreciate you looking out for the server. However I disagree with 1 and 2. I disagree with horses because you have to earn the kit and isn't easy, people who do get the kit worked hard for it. I also disagree with number 2, rods. Rods have always been apart of minecraft and would be unreasonable to take them away. I see your point how they can be abused, but overall you need more pvp skills then rod skills. Without pvp skills, rods would be useless. Not everyone is good with rods, just like how not everyone is good with bows, but we learn from it. Overall I don't think rods and Horse kit should be changed/remove from the game. But again this is just my opinion!

    Have a wonderful rest of your day! :)
    Posted Jun 12, 2019
  10. We definitely need to be on the lookout for cheating, because if rodding is what it you are all describing, I have no problem with it. However, I am noticing a high number of players that are using clients, or players that have unbelievably long reaches, usually they use rods too, which is probably why I am so upset over it. If rodding is to stay, then I think that the SG servers need to be monitored more often. It really needs to be one way or the other. Thanks for all your comments, they definitely have a good discussion and give me more insight!
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jun 12, 2019
  11. Heya!

    When someone rods it can seem like they are hacking because the main point of rodding is to get an extra/first hit, and very rarely would an obvious hacker need to use a rod to get a extra hit (especially with reach). You also need to think about the fact that not all hackers get banned every time. Mineplex is a very popular server and a lot of people like to hack for attention, so imagine how many hackers play at one time, as well as how many staff members are on at one time. Say Mineplex has 100 staff in total, since they have different timezones they are on at different times, so say only 20 are on at the same time. How many hackers do you think are on the entire server? Mineplex shouldn’t give SG special attention because that ruins the game for people playing Micro Battles or another pvp related game. I understand it can seem like SG doesn’t get any attention, it does, but from Mineplex’s perspective they have 15+ games to watch. Sorry if this post seems unnecessary but I hope I helped show my opinion a little better.

    Have a good day!
    Posted Jun 12, 2019
  12. Which is why I'd advocate for replacing the kit and having some maps where you can find Horses.

    The Biggest Factor in being good at rodding is Hot Keys, and while I don't want Rods removed, It is very hard for someone such as myself to consistently use my scroll wheel to plunge myself to victory and on often occasions gaffes w/ my scroll wheel skill end up costing me my chance of winning.

    All needed to be said.
    Posted Jun 12, 2019
  13. Not sure that you fully understand how rods work. When you are hit with a rod, you are essentially "stunned" because of the hit for a short period of time. This allows people to get the first hit on someone and go for the combo. After, they can be hit by you. Also, the rod itself is not over powered, the people you are talking about have a very high CPS, and so they can easily take you down faster be cause they are overall more experienced in PvP. Rods don't need to be removed, they just give someone an advantage over the other if you can use them correctly.

    As for the other opinions in this thread, I'll answer them here:

    Horseman Nerf:
    As some people above me have said, this isn't necessary. Many horseman counters exist, and as someone that has owned it for a long time, I don't think it needs to be nerfed again. It's already had enough at its current state that I have 0 motivation to use it as opposed to a stronger kit like barbarian, brawler, assassin, or knight.

    Axeman Cooldown:
    I could get on board with this. Even though I haven't seen many people spam axe thrower, I can see where your frustration comes from. No need for something like this to be possible, so adding a cooldown wouldn't be a bad idea.

    Overall I'm going to give this a -0.5 because I disagree with a majority of points made.
    Posted Jun 12, 2019
  14. Yeah you know, I just fought Horrible_Pain with full iron/chain-mail, iron axe, and multiple soups. He killed me with a stick, and a rod. although I hit him at least 13 times. This is not my own personal feeling. It is a FACT. We need to start having some sort of fairness to people without them. The battle I just fought was beyond ridiculous. That, or we NEED mods to be on frequent as heck to find people who are hacking. No joke, that battle was just disgusting. I don't feel that Horrible_Pain was cheating, but the rod technique was so unbelievably unfair that I might honestly quit this server, its just too ridiculous. Might as well just play survival/creative from now on. On another unrelated note, I noticed a high-level player; Calamity9, get a diamond chest-plate within the first minute of an SG match. Please clarify to me that it is possible, because I was pretty bummed and went full on hackusating, which I hate to do. I probably just need to suck it up or something but I have been playing a long time and I am quite shocked at these instances. Thanks
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jun 12, 2019
  15. I know you're against rods but you may as well just learn how to use one, I never liked them either yet I still use them simply because you have to if you wanna do well in pvp.

    Also getting a diamond chestplate in the first minute is possible, on the map Fallout there are 2 separate secret Diamond chestplates you can obtain.
    Posted Jun 12, 2019
  16. First of all, 13 hits with a decent sword should kill someone. Enchanted stone, even a regular stone is a good amount of damage, and I feel you would have killed them with that amount of damage. As for the rod part, just learn how to use one man. It's not super hard to get the basics of it, and while it is very hard to master like some have done, it's possible for every player to learn it relatively quickly at least to a basic level. This evens the playing field a good bit. Not trying to be rude, I'm just saying that I don't see your point as super valid because of that.

    This is indeed possible on fallout, and seeing as that's Calamity's favorite map, I suspect you fought him there. Not a hack, just a secret you can get to.
    Posted Jun 12, 2019
  17. *annoyed chuckle* ye, that guy hates me. But, yes I have seen a lot of people w/ dia chest early on w/ that map. Just like theres 2 diamonds and 4 swift potions on Plexworld.
    Posted Jun 12, 2019
  18. Yeah I know the plexworld one but I think maybe they need to change that because it could be considered as exploiting map or something which is a rule I guess, but idk it seems cool now that you guys told me. Thanks!
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jun 13, 2019 at 12:23 AM
  19. The horse has a massive hitbox and virtually 0 combat advantages. Just fight the horseman. If you are so severely undergeared that isn't an option, you probably arent winning either way.

    There is almost no correlation between a rod being available in SG and how many wins people can get in a day.

    You mention a 'fair fight', but this is SG... the game is inherently unfair. Looting is a thing and fights rarely occur where both players have equal gear. If you want ""fair fights"" go do 1v1s or Kit PvP, not SG...

    Axeman would still be incredibly strong with a cooldown. The limiting factor on its strength isn't how fast it can throw axes, but how many it can get and use.
    Posted Jun 14, 2019 at 1:34 PM
    WackityQuack likes this.

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