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Official Official Super Smash Mobs Tierlist/Match-up Thread

Discussion in 'Super Smash Mobs' started by Cabob, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. ccopy mains snowman, and we play in the same games all the time- he's never once had a problem with chickens or anything. since chicken's armour is so low, snowballs can cancel out chicken's regen and do actual damage. ccopy likes to spam them from afar, and it prevents the chicken from ever regenerating. snowman's mobility is pretty bad, especially compared to chicken's, but snowballs stop players from moving mid air, so it isn't to hard to catch up once they're out in the open. chicken missile is very easy to dodge, so despite snowman having a larger hitbox, all it has to do is double jump to evade the missile. i don't think chicken has much of an advantage over any experienced player, because even its most damaging move isn't too hard to dodge when you get used to it.

    the kit ccopy seems to have more problems with is blaze. even though you can stop blazes with snowballs, it's not very easy to do, since firefly is so fast. even if snowman does more melee damage, blaze's fire always gives it an advantage close up, since the burn damage takes a significant amount of health away. snowballs can be used to get combos, but they don't do as much damage as blaze's fire does, so i'd say its pretty equal.
    some snowmen don't rely on melee very much, rather they try to hit opponents off when they're jumping gaps. firefly is such a good recovery move that it becomes a little hard to do this. snowman definitely has some advantages, but there aren't enough to put one over the other. i think it just depends on who's better at close up melee.
    Posted Jan 31, 2019
  2. Hello, one of the 3 Chicken mains in existence here, Chicken vs Snowman is a HORRIBLE matchup for Snowman. Snowman HAS to get close to deal damage, and that's the one place where Chicken shines. Spamming snowballs from afar isn't going to kill a Chicken, and even if it did, the Chicken could just hide behind structures to force the Snowman to come to it.
    Once the Snowman decides to actually approach, it WILL get blasted by missile. A kit with essentially zero mobility does not dodge the missile at melee range, no matter how slow the projectile is.
    Snowman is just a juggling practice target for Chicken, even more so than Iron Golem, since that kit can actually defend itself with it's powerful moves.
    Ever since I got "good" at Chicken, I don't think I've ever lost a single match to a Snowman as Chicken, no matter how good the Snowman. The best it can hope to do is abuse triplejumps and pray the Chicken misses, which isn't that likely. And like Jam said, even if Chicken misses the missile, it can just flap away. Snowballs don't keep it in place well enough, especially considering that the Chicken has it's own spammy projectile to stop enemies in their tracks.

    If anything, I'd say that Snowman VS Chicken should be -3 or even -4 for the Snowman, rather than just -1.
    I'd also like to argue that Chicken VS IG isn't a -3, but rather a -2 or even a -1. Yes, a decent Golem can easily destroy a Chicken with it's abilities, but likewise a decent Chicken can keep a healthy distance from the Golem and pelt it with missiles it simply cannot avoid, while staying out of range of it's 2 more devastating moves. Hook into melee still murders Chicken, but I think it hardly counts for a -3.
    Posted Jan 31, 2019,
    Last edited Jan 31, 2019
  3. alrighty. personally, i never really see chickens destroy snowmen, especially when i'm playing with ccopy (though there aren't many good snowman mains in general). chicken's defense is just so low compared to snowman's that in a close combat situation, i figure it's anyone's game. they can just fly away, but triple jump makes it a lot easier to catch up to them (if they're going to a high place that is). maybe chicken does have an advantage, but i still don't agree with chicken missile being hard to dodge. two of the people i play ssm with main chicken and snowman, and from what i've seen it's not really all that difficult to evade. it's pretty slow, and becomes easy to predict after a while.
    but if that's your experience with it, i'll take your word for it.
    Posted Jan 31, 2019
  4. Really, almost any matchup in this game can go either way if the players don't abuse the weaknesses of kits. But again, there's just not that much Snowman can do vs Chicken. Even if Chicken completely whiffs missile, it can just fly away faster than Snowman can jump after it until it gets missile back.

    But yeah, as it is, almost nobody plays either kit so all I can talk about are my own experiences murdering Snowmen, both bad and good.
    Posted Feb 1, 2019
  5. What it uses a player hitbox and how does having good abilities rate you C??
    Posted Feb 1, 2019
  6. I'm meaning that it doesn't require skills like enderman. lol
    and i thought it uses the mob hitbox
    Posted Feb 2, 2019
  7. Actually it doesn't use a player hitbox. It would be too easy to hit. In 1.8, it uses a squid hitbox.
    --- Post updated ---
    Any kit can dodge Chicken missile from a healthy range, even golem. You can literally walk to dodge chicken missile . From a closer range, you can double jump to dodge it. Anything past 7 blocks of distance and chicken missile becomes one of the easiest projectiles to dodge due to its slow speed, and loud noise.
    Posted Feb 2, 2019
  8. On the whole chicken matchup thing, I don't think the chicken's projectiles are anything a snowman has to worry about. The missile can be destroyed by blizzard and even if it does hit, it only deals about 2 hearts and then the next can be blocked. If the chicken is close enough to hit the missile through the blizzard, then they are probably close enough to be hit by melee attacks as well making the fight favorable for the snowman. Whereas if the chicken keeps their range, blizzard deals a heart for every 2 snowballs hit preventing any regen. (also snowballs replenish hunger so you're never really required to be aggressive anyways)
    Posted Feb 2, 2019
    CCozy likes this.
  9. IMO, the Chicken could be a little higher because it is difficult to attack. Likewise, Iron Golem is probably C or lower. Also, another thing to note, Creeper's passive ability can hard-counter Wolf combos. Snowman's blizzard easily gimps Creeper.
    Posted Feb 3, 2019
    CCozy and Padba like this.
  10. Jam

    Chicken gets shredded by mostly every mob and most mobs don't even have to get close to a chicken to do it. 15+ mobs can easily bully a chicken by spacing it. Iron Golem on the other hand is a different story, in pubs he's a punching bag for noobs but at a comp level he can not only put up a fight but has some of the most damaging combos in the game. Alone a sweetspot fissure > iron hook does more than 6+ hearts to almost any mob and that's not a hard combo to do. It's a very good kit just takes some practise.

    As for creeper, contrary to popular belief Lightning Shield isn't the almighty powerhouse counter pick block that people think. All Lightning Shield does is prevent that starting strike with melee wolf's always try to get. And it also stops them from doing there easy cub > melee > strike combos. But wolf doesn't need any of that. Straight Ravage + using wolf strike as a finisher can still decimate creeper it's just how you play the match. Creeper still has to work to win it's not free by any means.

    Blizzard doesn't shred the armour anymore, the matchup is basically Snowman getting in for that fat 14+ damage combo and then preventing the regeneration with blizzard. It's one of the moves in the game with the ability to not only negate the regeneration but also damage creeper more because of its EXP drain (besides outright damaging him for 6+). And the snowman creeper matchup is basically dependent on if the snowman can get creeper into the neutral running position. It's that or you lose.
    Posted Feb 3, 2019
    1dragoneye and Kenshin_William like this.
  11. I am a 3000 win snowman main and I can say that I previously had issues with chicken but not anymore. Chicken's play style is very predictable. I can simply block the missle or dodge it as it is slow, then dodge the egg blaster and get free hits. If the chicken tries to flap away I will just slow it down with blizzard and catch back up. I don't hold down blizzard but rather coordinate a series of clicks to conserve energy and use it more like a fishing rod than stuns a bit more. If I fail to catch up to the chicken I simply repeat until I can strike. Once I strike I can usually get 2-3 hits on it in a combo and it doesn't take too long to kill. If a chicken misses two sets of missle plus egg blaster it is dead. Even if it hits me it usually can't do much damage. Chicken has poor regen and armor so if we both get low I can usually keep blizzarding it and regen a lot quicker and simply repeat. On certain maps I can always catch up to it when it is running.

    I feel like the snowman is a bit underrated in some of its matchups especially against spider. This is understandable because high level snowman mains are rare and I am only aware of one snowman main with more wins than me. Snowman does well against wolf and spider if you are able to conserve blizzard and use it as a comboing tool you can keep them away through a spin web and cub tackle. I can actually combo wolves and spiders to death when I'm trapped in a cub tackle or spin web as I use blizzard to combo them and take no kb while trapped. Snowman's worst matchups are against enderman, skeleton, and zombie especially when there are more than one. Snowman lacks speed or a high damaging range attack. I have to rely on using my ice bridge as a shield and as a tool to get the high ground and jump down behind them or to their side or hide and wait for them to get closer. I might take a route towards their camping spot that involves a series of covered spots and triple jump dodge. I never let myself get out in the open and if I'm in the open I jump up and place a diagonal veritical bridge angeled properly which will block their arrows or block toss and allow me to get closer. The best mains of those three kits know how to hit a mid air shot consistently, know when to back up, and can melee themselves solidly so I usually have to be extremely patient to win against them.

    It is extremely important with snowman not to hold right click on blizzard but to time the blizzards to hit combos at the right time and conserve energy. This allows you to never run out of energy. Also to gimp a player in the void it makes it a lot less obvious what you are trying to do as the player doesn't take a clump of 4 snowballs as seriously as a whole spamming of them. Even very experienced players will make risky jumps with their recovery in cool down and I can get free kills on them.
    Posted Feb 18, 2019
    CCozy likes this.
  12. So wait, I'm confused.
    Is C the best or the worst?
    Posted Feb 28, 2019
  13. S+ is the best, C is the worst
    If you want more details for why some kits might be in different tiers please check the matchup document.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 28, 2019
    Johnny Welamton likes this.
  14. So for example...
    Spider will in theory beat a Zombie, Enderman, or Skeleton in a match?
    Posted Feb 28, 2019
  15. Being high on the list does not mean you beat every kit under. A low tier kit may still jave an advantage against a high tier sometimes.
    In the case of spider though it jas a positive matchup against everything but enderman.
    Enderman is neutral against it right now but it will probably be changed to slight advantage for enderman in the doc's next update.
    The doc i'm talking about is this one: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CbzODAU-vmw6P2J-rd71gA40fYuZOgdBz1bS3Kf--rQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 28, 2019
    Johnny Welamton likes this.

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