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Official Official Super Smash Mobs Tierlist/Match-up Thread

Discussion in 'Super Smash Mobs' started by Cabob, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Im a little surprised at how high Villager placed, I've generally found the kit struggles to maintain pressure against other kits and can get abused hard by some kits when its forced to drop speed
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
  2. How the heckdoodle did ig get into "A+"
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
    CCozy likes this.
  3. I'm guessing likely due to the limited mobility of the kit.
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
  4. Unfortunately, I don't think that would be a good idea. It's simply too late. Magma cube has been in here for a while now, and it wouldn't be fair to magma mains to make their fav different. I do think it should be buffed, but changing its moveset, as for any kit, would not be the best idea.
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
  5. Hi, cube main here (also villager but thats unimportant because I'll agree villager is bad). I never really understood why it was the second worst kit in the game, especially when put up against Witch and Pig and Wither and the such. It has a high skill ceiling with its mobility and potential damage if you can predict well (landing a long range flame dash or disrupting their movement with a midrange magma blast isn't much harder than a long range block toss), and with its small hitbox it can easily skirt around some powerful abilities (if you ain't Deidara, you ain't killing me as zombie). It has slightly below average fighting capabilities but with its insane speed that doesn't really matter as you can choose the engagements to get in small hit-n-run damage until they're low enough to brawl down, and all that. Honestly, I think it's B tier since it kind of does what wolf does but worse, the same way wolf does what spider does but worse. It's just another rung down the ladder of ultrafast kits, ya know?
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
  6. That does not really answer my question. It's just how each kit matches up against a different kit.
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
  7. Jam

    Cubes a kit that has a lot of design issues. One of its most prominent being that cube most of the time is forced to engage. Camping from a spot firing fireballs isn't really viable unless you are getting directs. And most kits easily shut down an attacking cube. Not to mention that its primary move is easily invalidated by simply reflecting it. As for flame dash it's good if you punish mid airs or landings but other than that it's quite lack luster. Most of the time I just walk left or right to avoid flame dash it's not as fast as you think.

    Magma struggles meta wise, move wise and even on its base form it sucks having not so great 5/5 primary stats and a lacking regeneration rate. Viable cube for me personally starts at form 2 with 6 attack because at least you can out trade some mobs then. Cubes playing style is usually 1 of 2 things. Run and gun, clean and then dip into fights or 2 the deidara style get an Auto clicker use the kick back of fireball and basically melee attack everything until you get 8 damage. But in the current meta, with kits like Enderman, spider, wolf and zombie just train wrecking everything cube doesn't really stand a chance, and that too is proved by its overall matchups.
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
    CCozy, Bonse and Cabob like this.
  8. True dat
    --- Post updated ---
    Sorry, just read this. I actually have to disagree with this. Flame dash is extremely fast, having one of the fastest speeds. If you are able to dodge it from moving left and right, its most likely the Magma itself missing. If flame dash is already in motion, you cannot dodge it by moving left to right. You may strafe to make it harder to predict pre-flamedash, but that then is just based on the magma, not flame dash itself. Not saying you can't dodge it tho.

    <3 u Jam
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
  9. Lmaooo
    (Guardian op pls change hitbox)

    Also saw u get ganked by MeeZoid on HCF yesterday oof ur in his vid
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
    ___TacoCat___ and Vocaloiid like this.
  10. well that was what I was trying to said sory if I was bad at English-ing xDD
    Posted Jan 22, 2019
    xOeuf likes this.
  11. I do think Guardian is a bit overrated and Blaze a bit underrated but that's just my opinion, and I can appreciate matchups. No doubt Spider is the best class tho.
    Posted Jan 23, 2019
    xOeuf likes this.
  12. Btw, the new “tier list” is purely based on matchups so it really isn’t that accurate. Like cow should not be that low lol.

    Posted Jan 23, 2019
  13. Actually it isn't purely matchups that inluence the list. The list is weighed based on tiers of the previous voted tier list. Winning against a top tier class gives you more points etc. (More info on the matchup doc).
    Anyone else who happens to read this i recommend looking at the main matchup document istead of just looking at the tier list made from it. The doc itself is a lot more useful trust me.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jan 23, 2019
    Johnny Welamton likes this.
  14. What do you mean Chicken's not the best kit in the game?! I can't hit it, it has many jumps, and it can use more abilities than any other kit!
    It should obviously be nerfed!!

    Yeah, I really don't have much to say aside from sarcastic, unfunny jokes. The tierlist has looked like this for a while (not helped by the slow rate of patches), so... eh.

    While Chicken has some unloseable matchups (Chicken VS Snowman is hilariously bad for Snowman), I take it it's garbage matchups VS the actual important kits are what land it at the bottom of the barrel in the matchup chart?

    Yes, I'm too lazy to read the doc, my excuse is that I'm on mobile lul.
    Posted Jan 23, 2019
    aaawesome likes this.
  15. True, cow is also a little low, but at the same time the format is a little weird for a matchup.

    Seems like it. I'll do that later

    The hitbox is pretty small, so if you are at a longer range yeah its pretty plausible to just sidestep it. Though at closer range... yeah, you shouldnt be dodging it if the maggie isnt garbage (which then again, most are).

    Maggie can potentially match the speed, but its approach is very limited. Spider and Wolf ALWAYS have directed double jumps, and they can come at you from a dozen different angles and easily fake out an approach or punish bad approached. Maggie is way more commital, is arguably lacking in damage if you dont consistently land flame dash (which is hard if you are forced to use it for mobility, rather than as an engage tool), and doesnt have crazy high base stats either.
    Posted Jan 23, 2019
  16. Hey, not entirely sure how I was supposed to go about it but I'll post a thread here. After playing Villager a fair bit (at least 2500 games over all my accounts, at least 1500 wins from the kit), I looked at the matchup chart and honestly I disagreed with a large amount of the stated matchups. I'll assume that the results were put as they were due to people guessing since villager isn't exactly a played kit (backed up by the fact that it has more matchups with a * than anyone save for blaze), so I'll offer my suggestions for some matchups.
    Vs snowman: 0 or -1, snowman just feels like a difficult yet somewhat fair fight at close range where I have to use all of the kits options to come out on top, while snowman can't afford to miss blizzard much either.
    Vs chicken: +3 or +4, there's virtually nothing a chicken can do to a villager who just hit and runs with hurr. It's far faster than the chicken, and due to the hurr's hitbox the chicken can't really dodge it.
    Vs squid: +1, the abilities can force you out of butcher and into a different form to stay alive, but that isn't too big of a detriment, if you get in with speedster a squid typically throws its shotgun away trying to hit you, then swap to butcher, wait for super squid, hurr, then as soon as the shotgun returns switch to blacksmith and disengage it makes for a lengthy fight that I find is a victory more often than not against same-level squids, but it's not easy enough to warrant a +2 in my opinion.
    Vs witch: +2, speaking of +2 if the witch falls off the map it's more of a guaranteed death vs villager than any kit since the hurr goes through solid objects and bats. Other than that, witch has little to no options to reliably keep speedster back, and with the other two arts, bat wave is an incredibly easy dodge with trade scatter. Daze potion spam can keep the villager at bay until speedster is back, but that's nothing more than stalling.
    Vs blaze: +2 or 3, I can't even recall all of the fireflies I cancelled with hurr, the blaze lacks options against fast kits that make it impossible to hit with inferno or run from and kits that can reliably handle its firefly, be it through cancellation or damaging while in propulsion or easily dodging completely. Unfortunately for blaze, villager fits all of the qualifications I just listed, Firefly is impossible to get off unless you've triple jumped before activating and villager doesn't have scatter (or use it below the map but that's resulted in some amazing troll kills on my part), and just in general I find that blaze isn't much of an issue. I managed to 1v1 diemolis who I will confidently say is better than me, to stress how the matchup goes
    Vs both guardian and zombie: 0. This is for similar reasons, villager counters both in certain arts and is countered by both in certain arts, leading to an overall neutral. Guardian is INCREDIBLY weak to butcher, but neutral vs speedster and beats blacksmith thanks to the axe, landing it neutral to me. Zombie is weak to speedster which rushes it down without fail gets hit by butcher once, but then forces the villager to activate blacksmith right after the first butcher hit or so, then generally hits a fully charged arrow or so before the villager can hide, which would put it at a -1 or so without its abilities; spew bile can give zombie an extra few seconds of wasting speedster, and if multiple grasps are landed the villager may have to switch to blacksmith without landing a butcher hit at all, which balances it out. Villager vs zombie is just a match of skill and ability management in my opinion.
    Vs skeleton and pig: -1, I don't think the kit is as poorly matched against either as you all assume, but it does have some downsides. Skeleton, like zombie can be rushed down by speedster, however with its higher speed and bone explosion it's nearly impossible to do anything with butcher except hope for a trade scatter before waiting it out with blacksmith, making it do better than zombie in my opinion, but still susceptible to large damage from speedster without being able to return much. Pig is good against blacksmith and in tight corridors, but in the open is a fairly even match where pig has to land a LOT of bacon to outdo villager's burst damage.

    Anyways I think that was long enough, if there's anything else you want to discuss about it I'm all ears. Oh, and I can't beat a good slime. Make it -3. That's all, thanks!
    Posted Jan 25, 2019
  17. Jam

    No one played villager enough or at a top level to make good enough educated decisions on its matchups. Plus the kits not even been out for a whole year yet to date I don't think so timeframe wise it's still not enough time for someone to "master it" or learn about it's matchups.

    It was basically just unanimous discussion and agreement on how to put the numbers. But villager is virtually a 2 trick it's only strong attributes are Hurr's busted damage and Speedsters combo potential. Everything else has issues and villagers neutral is so garbage it's basically sitting around waiting for cooldowns. Maybe rework soontm
    Posted Jan 28, 2019
  18. IG and wolf in the same tier tho?

    edit: why does snowman have a negative matchup against chicken?
    im c o n f u se d
    Posted Jan 30, 2019,
    Last edited Jan 30, 2019
    CCozy likes this.
  19. no matter how hard i look at this i can't figure out the reason why snowman is above blaze

    they both have quickly recharging projectiles except one can burn you to death i don't u n der s tan d
    Posted Jan 30, 2019
    Padba likes this.
  20. Jam

    @CCozy & @CCopy ,

    You need to remember that the first Tierlist has been created based on player votes and who thinks which kit goes where. Whereas the second "matchup" Tierlist is based on matchups and spesific statistical data that's been put into a list. They are 2 seperate entities.

    The general consensus seem to believe that Blaze beats snowman and at a lowish level it probably can, Blaze is easier to use and Snowman takes a bit of experience. But when you factor in stats and experience and start to look at the matchup chart, you'll find that Snowman has more options and can deal with Blaze. Snowman can stop it's Firefly with blizzard, it deals more up close melee damage, it can combo blaze better and is more hazardous to deal with.

    Whereas looking at Chicken v Snowman, the reason chicken can win is because snowman is a playstyle that requires you to get up close and personal to the opponent. You have no choice in whether or not to place the spacing game because snowman is a close combat class. Chicken has missile which is exactly what it needs to virtually shutdown any of snowman approaches. As long as the snowman is trying to attack chicken head on and chicken has missile, there is almost no way for snowman to do anything. (Unless he wastes missile then they just flap away).
    Posted Jan 30, 2019
    ReNegative, Cabob and _JPXFRD_ like this.

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