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Implemented No More Cross-Teaming in 2 TEAM Games

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by Paladise, Aug 3, 2020.

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  1. UPDATE: I go further in depth within this thread.

    Hello <o/

    Currently, the rules for teaming / cross teaming are as follows:

    This means that none of the rules above apply for gamemodes that have 2 teams. I propose making cross-teaming in 2-team games punishable.

    For example, Death Tag has 2 teams, and cross-teaming is a very prevalent issue. Since most chasers team with runners, there is no fun in being a chaser when you are the only one actually chasing. This is even worse in gamemodes, where the two teams are trying to aim toward the same goal like Champions, Castle Siege, etc.

    Thanks to @mab8400 for expanding onto my ideas.

    Feel free to write any feedback down below!

    In response to some feedback I received, even though RC (Rules Committee) decides the rules, "The RC team always has their doors open for questions and feedback from the community, and encourages players to approach them." You can find more information within the August Newsletter. This means that they are willing to hear rules that might need to be changed. Furthermore, while it might be difficult to determine, whether a player is intentionally doing something, staff members and other players already have to determine what is cross-teaming or teaming in gamemodes where this rule is already implemented. Furthermore, most teamers will intentionally team, using taunts and shifting with each other during the game letting the rest of their teams fight. While I agree there is some gray-space, perhaps this should be another offense that is only punishable by RC, and requires a decent amount of evidence in order to get a player(s) punished. The rules may be confusing at times, but I'm sure staff can help players with any questions about the rules that they might have. In addition, implementing this will make the rules a little bit easier to understand, since now cross-teaming / teaming will be punishable in all gamemodes.
    Posted Aug 3, 2020,
    Last edited Sep 14, 2020
    SATURN, Susie, Arshaad_73 and 2 others like this.
  2. Hey!

    I definitely see where you are coming from, but I do have my concerns about this idea...

    Changing the rules in this way seems like a huge hassle - crossteaming rules are already confusing for the majority of players and having some sort of alteration to how they work would only make things worse. Given this, I think that this current rule is better left unchanged, especially when any alteration is mostly unnecessary. I don't deny that its incredibly annoying when your teammates don't do anything and instead help the opponent, but RC has their justifications regarding rules for each game, and leaving it at that makes the most sense to me.

    Another thing that worries me is your emphasis on "intention". How might someone determine a player's intent on not killing the flag carrier or whatever? This puts a lot of pressure on staff members to judge each player's intentions, and frankly, they shouldn't have to deal with such dilemmas, given that similar situations happen quite often.

    Overall, as evidenced by my concerns expressed above, I'm not really sure about this idea. For that, I'll be giving this a -1.
    Let me know if you have any questions/concerns.
    Thank you for sharing!
    ~ Bobert / Erik
    Posted Aug 4, 2020
  3. Intention is pretty obvious a lot of the time. This is a huge thing that people like to go into denial for because they want to defend and hold onto this rule so they can get easy wins or loophole the game-play trolling rule. In one game which I don't know anything about, called Block Hunt, a lot of hunters will purposely help the hider team by defending, blowing up TNT paths (ladders, parkour, trees, etc) and without being afk, will INTENTIONALLY let the time run out so that their friends/the other team wins. How do I know they are doing that intentionally? Maybe because they are blowing kisses next to a chicken in a tree and shifting in place. But I guess the rules think that "oh I didn't see that player! I thought that was a normal NPC in a spot impossible for any normal mob to get to!" No. Logic=False. In Champions, I played for about 2 weeks straight and I saw what seemed to be a corrupt gamemode full of people who literally do not fight at all and just shift next to their friends while they watch you get 2v1ed. If intention is questionable in a 2 team game, why would it be any different in a solo gamemode? With the logic based on the rules, 2 people fighting one person in a game of SG is considered teaming. Where is the intent there though? What if they "just happen" to not see eachother and also attack the same person, while simultaneously not hitting eachother the entirety of the time? There is no intent there right? No. It's clear what is happening based on this thing called logic. Very very important variable in any situation. The same exact reasoning should be used in any single gamemode. However, this doesn't mean that a player who is afk or coincidentally attacks the same player should just be banned instantly. Extensive footage or recording of gameplay should be collected in order to actually observe what's happening. The main reason why I see that this rule hasn't changed is because of the fact that it takes more effort to observe situations and judge them based on exactly what you mention; intent. Yet there are many times where it is just so blatantly obvious that even a 4 year old could distinguish the difference.
    Posted Aug 4, 2020
  4. Finally something we can agree on Bob! The only thing I have a problem with is your middle section; those two games have some of the worst of it. However I understand your idea and it is great. I've made several threads in the past about this issue (all ignored/denied by staff or people with any type of status/power in the community) which highlighted mostly this problem in Block Hunt. Thanks for making the thread, hopefully it won't be ignored like mine were
    Posted Aug 4, 2020
    SATURN, Arshaad_73 and Paladise like this.
  5. Yes the teaming in Block Hunt where players grind XP, like look at afterfive's video of getting level 100, teaming with hunters
    Posted Aug 4, 2020
    Paladise likes this.
  6. Playing champs without a party is bad enough getting clapped in a 3v5 fighting 5 skilled players, but its worse when people on your team don't help you fight. Many times I see players on opposite teams just chilling out or fist 1v1ing.
    Posted Aug 4, 2020
    Arshaad_73 and Paladise like this.
  7. I completely agree this should be punishable. But what about general targetting? In cake wars duos, a lot of the time, I have to deal with an already useless teammate who hurts more than helps. Then, a 6v1 usually makes me lose the game. It's pretty obvious when it's intentional teaming though. They just happen to all be targetting me, not really teaming with each other.
    Posted Aug 4, 2020
  8. Hey!

    Thank you for the comment ^-^
    To clarify, I do not deny that intention is pretty obvious a lot of the time, because frankly, it really is. But the point that I was trying to convey is that staff members shouldn't have to deal with the scenarios in which it isn't clear. I understand your point about the subjectivity of cross teaming bans in single-player games, but adding this would not only cause confusion among the general player base (again, with rule changing), it would also add to the strain of staff on making decisions (even if extensive evidence is required).
    To reiterate, I agree with what you are saying overall, but I just don't see the point in making such a rule change as there's no easy way to determine intent in every single scenario.

    Please let me know if you have any other questions or comments!
    Thanks again
    ~ Bobert / Erik
    Posted Aug 4, 2020
    Paladise likes this.
  9. Some valid points right there bob and mab! +1
    Posted Aug 6, 2020
    SATURN and Paladise like this.
  10. Agreed, I tend to get really aggravated when your team isn't helping you and teaming with the other team. The whole point is that your team works together to go against the other team. This rule would make it helpful for others that have no help from there teammate and actually put up a challenge.
    Posted Aug 6, 2020
    SATURN and Paladise like this.
  11. Hey, to some extent I agree with this change. Not being able to cross team in 2-team games makes more sense than the current cross-teaming rules in my opinion.

    You make good points, I can see where you're coming from but part of RC's role is to take rule changes into consideration, so it shouldn't be seen as a "huge hassle" for them to do this here. From what I've noticed, like you said, there is already a lot of confusion about cross teaming, and many players seem to already think that cross teaming in 2 team games is punishable. It just seems more logical that this would be updated in the rules, as all that cross teaming achieves in a 2 team game is game stalling - which is already a punishable offence.

    However, that being said, cross teaming with 2 remaining teams alive, while not specifically stated in the rules, can fall under Gameplay Trolling - under the offence "Stalling games by intentionally not attacking players on opposite teams in order to prolong the game, etc."

    I agree that it could be more clear in the rules - however there are already rules in place to protect players from these sorts of situations - so whilst I'm fairly neutral on the idea - I can only see it doing more good than harm.
    Posted Aug 6, 2020
  12. Hey!
    Just wanted to take some time to clarify my thoughts a little more...
    For one, I agree with what you and what @Bobtroopo has in his now edited post in that RC is willing to accept feedback and also has the duty to alter and change rules based on what the community thinks. What I'm trying to convey is that the rule being changed will cause a lot of confusion among players (as cross teaming rules are already really discombobulating), and overall could be a "huge hassle" on that front.

    In addressing your second point, I do agree that with 2 remaining teams alive, it would be possible to deem it as gameplay trolling. The one thing here is that a gameplay trolling offense where game stalling happens is fairly obvious to spot. What I'm trying to claim here is the ambiguity in what "cross teaming" would look like, as opposed to the easier gameplay trolling scenarios. As from such a point, I personally feel as though this rule would be causing a lot more stress on staff members trying to make the best decisions in such a pressuring situation, which I don't think is necessary or fair.

    Let me know if you have any other comments or concerns!
    Thanks again,
    ~ Bobert / Erik
    Posted Aug 6, 2020
    Paladise likes this.
  13. Hey again!

    There's been an update to this proposed idea. RC rediscussed over this idea recently and has decided to now make hindering your team in 2 team games in anyway punishable.

    With this in mined, I will be remarking this thread with the "Implemented" tag as well as lock this thread.

    Thanks again.

    Thread Locked >> Idea Implemented
    Posted Oct 22, 2020
    anna dot and nolawn like this.
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