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New Legend: Paladin's Warhammer

Discussion in 'Clans' started by Baloo, Aug 6, 2020.

?

Would you like to see this added?

  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
    62.5%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. Maybe with changes

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. Paladins Warhammer
    Currently, clans has three main categories for legendaries, with each category having received a new member since the beginning of clans, Scepter, Lance, and Scythe. One thing I’d like to see is a crowd control legend. Currently, legends are generally used only after you get a full set because they pair well together. Each different category pairs with another and gives you massive advantages in PVP. The issue is that without constant balancing people find one specific meta and stick with it. The best legends currently are Hyper, Wind, and Scepter out of all three categories, as they provide the utility from each role. I think that adding new legends, as well as balancing out current ones would help shift the meta and allow people to adapt their own style for legend PVP.


    Current Legends:
    • Giants Broad (Melee, “Healing”)
    • Scythe of The Fallen Lord (Melee, “Healing”, “Ranged”)

    • Magnetic Maul (Melee, Ranged)

    • Hyper Axe (Melee, Movement)

    • Wind Blade (Movement)

    • Alligators Tooth (Movement)

    • Knights Great Lance (Movement)

    • Meridian Scepter (Ranged)
    Proposed Legends:
    • Ice Javelin (Melee, Ranged)
      • Provides an alternative to the Hyper + Scepter combo
    • Paladins War Hammer (Melee)
      • Adds in crowd control for players and mobs
    Concept Art:

    [​IMG]

    Note: Not my own work


    Abilities:
    Left Click: Normal Melee
    • Deals 8 Damage

    • Can be runed

    • Reasoning: As this is a crowd control legendary the base damage shouldn’t be overly high, as most of it is also going to other targets so even though you may not do as much damage to a single target you can do a lot more to a group of targets.

    Passive: Cleave
    • Deals 4 Damage (½ Normal Melee)
      • Applies full damage to mobs (Useful for raids & events)
    • Does not apply Flaming/Frosted/Jagged runes
      • These are already amazing for crowd control they should not be applied to a group of people at once.
    • Reasoning: I like the idea of having a crowd control legendary that can contest the hyper and scythe in value. Sure you may not be able to get as many hits in as the hyper, or heal up like you would with the scythe but it provides consistent damage to all nearby targets (Knight’s Cleave but with reduced range). I don’t believe it should apply Flaming/Frosted/Jagged runes as these already are great crowd control for assassins and other kits even without cleave, I believe that adding them into the cleave would be too OP. Sharp runes would add ½ damage to the cleave, so if you had a +1.0 damage rune it would apply that to the base damage (now 9) and then take half of it for cleave (now 4.5).
    Right Click #1: Holy Light
    • Gives the player one of three options:
      • Regen 4 for 3 seconds
      • Regen 3 for 6 seconds
      • Regen 2 for 13 seconds
      • All options heal for 5 hearts without passive regeneration included
        • Now either you will get one of these at random every time you use it, or similar to how the Hyper Axe functions (Random Speed + Time when created) it will have one of these options indefinitely when first created (every time you use it you get the same regen).
    • Note: Regen will not apply if you switch off of the Paladins Warhammer, it should not be used like the broad for healing only, if you want value you must actively be using it to gain regen.

    • Cleanses all clanmates of any negative effects and provides Regen 2 for 4 seconds within a 4 block radius
      • Same thing as drinking a bottle and eating a soup
    • 90-second cooldown on completion of ability
    Right Click #2: Divine Protection
    • Gives the user a 20% damage reduction from incoming attacks
      • Resistance 1
    • Gives the user a 4 outgoing damage reduction
      • Weakness 1
    • Both effects last for 8-15 seconds (Same range as hyper, not sure what it is)

    • 45-second cooldown on completion of ability
    Right Click #3: Crusader’s Might
    • Increases base damage to 10
      • Runes still apply
    • Increases cleave base damage to 5 (½ Normal Melee)
      • Flaming, Frosted, and Jagged still don’t apply (or maybe they could be activated for the duration of the ability? Not sure)
    • 10-second duration

    • 60-second cooldown on completion of ability
    Conclusion:
    I’m not sold on the abilities, I came up with a few options but haven’t settled on anything as of yet. The main thing I really like about this legend is the Cleave, being able to finally cleave mobs in a raid, UC, nether, or even SK would be really handy. The cleave doesn’t apply as much damage to players as it would mobs so I don’t think it would get out of hand (technically a normal knight does more cleave damage than this legend). I would hope people would opt for this legend in team fights when fighting another legend user or defending their base from invasions. I would love to see people use it on its own without aid from other Melee legends.

    Note: There are proposed balances to the values above + new aspects in the replies, give them a read if you've got the chance!

    Thanks for reading, I appreciate it! If you have any feedback, potential issues you might see, or suggestions for possible changes / new abilities feel free to leave a comment below, I respond to almost all of the comments in my threads.
     
    Posted Aug 6, 2020,
    Last edited Aug 13, 2020
    GAM, focus a, kznny and 2 others like this.
  2. You said it only did 4 damage to a group of people and 8 to who you hit that seems a little low
     
    Posted Aug 7, 2020
    kznny likes this.
  3. I really don't think the damage is as low as it seems. Other legends such as the Lance, Tooth, Scythe, and Maul all have a base damage of 8. This legend does as well but has the potential to do a lot more with cleave. Sure you may only do 8 to your main target but you're doing an extra 4 to literally anyone within 3 blocks of your original target. There is no limit on how many people you can cleave really, so the potential damage is extremely high. Now cleave is generally used with a diamond axe which has a base damage of 7, now Cleave 1 adds 50% of your base damage to all nearby targets, Cleave 2 is 75%, and Cleave 3 is 100%. I don't believe a legend should ever be given 100% cleave without cooldown as it would put it as #1 for almost all group fight situations. Paired with a scythe there is little chance you would ever die. Now, back to normal cleave. It does 7 (Diamond axe) to your main target and 7 (with cleave 3) to anyone around. So if you are fighting 2 people you are generally going to get 14 damage per attack. This legend would provide 8 base damage but only 4 damage to everyone surrounding, so you would generally do 12 damage per attack. Now, 8 damage may not seem like a lot but you can still 4 hit assassins with it, and you would be able to get extra damage on anyone around them for when you kill your first target and finally swap to someone else. You may not kill a single target as quickly as you would with the hyper (4 hits to kill a sin) or broad (3 hits to kill a sin) but you inflict damage to everyone right away unlike the hyper and broad. Meaning that overall, you would still kill a group of 3-4 sins just as quickly as you would with any other legend.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 7, 2020
    kznny likes this.
  4. I'm not sure why I'd want to cleave people with a wooden sword, but otherwise I don't have any problems with this legendary. If I was using legendaries and trying to crowd control, I'd try and decrease the numbers against me one at a time, not all at once extremely slowly. Maybe instead of cleaving and doing 4 damage a hit, it could be 8-12 damage in a certain radius around the player every 30 seconds or so. That way it'd be more of an assist to the legend user, instead of the whole thing just ultimately being useless. Not sure why I'd even need a cleaving legendary unless I was facing 6+ assasins, but doing 4 damage a hit and trading with all of them would without a doubt have me killed. Without a doubt, I would not choose the warhammer over the hyper axe.

    The right click abilities would really just make a legend user more powerful then they already are, a 20 percent damage reduction could easily add a couple more backstabs required to kill on TOP of a -3.2 - 3.6 reinforced set AND hold position, and obviously you wouldn't swing with it. The third one just is still almost just as useless, 10 base and 5 cleave would still get you dropped.

    I think it'd be better if it just had a mediocre base damage and a more appetizing cleave ability, such as a widespread lightning strike ability or something of the sort.
     
    Posted Aug 7, 2020
    Baloo and Daskyrules1 like this.
  5. Personally, I feel like this legendary would be a good addition if it were revamped. I just think having cleave on a legend would be overpowered and I can already see the strategies that would be created. Also, having cleave work on mobs is broken. This would make raids way easier than it already is and makes other things easier. If this legend was used with a decent reinforced set, windblade, hold position, and a scythe, they would basically be unkillable. In my opinion, Holy Light and Divine Protection should not be a thing. Holy Light seems like a good idea, but I feel like it should heal 3 or 4 hearts instead of 5. If this legend had cleave (wouldn't work on mobs), Crusaders Might, and nerf Holy Light it would be really cool to have. I feel like it would change the meta of legendaries and make the gameplay much more interesting. I still think this would be overpowered, so similar to a scythe, this legendary should only be dropped from a difficult new raid or event. This would make it more valuable to have as well and make sense of how powerful it is.
     
    Posted Aug 8, 2020
    GAM, Baloo and kznny like this.
  6. Hey,

    I really like the idea of adding a new legendary to clans. Clans in my opinion needs more options in legendary choices than the usual set that people use. Maybe if the cleave damage would scale down when their is more enemy's nearby would be good. Making the cleave do more damage when there is less people would make it less overpowered. If 10 knights or sins hop on you and your doing this damage to all of them at once, It would be a little broken. For your right click #1 I like that the best! I feel that another legendary with random values that you can get is very cool. It would be the second legendary with this certain aspect. There is only two other legends that heal you and in my opinion the broad barley gets used. The broad slows you down so I just use it if I get ice prisoned, For the scythe, I don't really use it unless its runed so I really like this extra healing legendary. All in all I really like your idea and I really hope this gets added to clans.
     
    Posted Aug 8, 2020
    Baloo and kznny like this.
  7. Another really cool legend concept. Seems pretty balanced and the ability concepts are cool. There is one thing I would change myself, which is the weakness that comes with the damage reduction of Divine Protection. If the weakness effect is greater than the resistance effect, isn't it essentially a debuff? Apart from that, I'm also wondering how it would pair with actual cleave, because most people use knight with legends, and I feel like there's lots of room for exploits. I guess if it's properly coded it shouldn't have these issues.

    +1 from me.

    Edit: Forgot that knight cleave wouldn't effect legendaries, so ignore the second part of my post >_>
     
    Posted Aug 8, 2020,
    Last edited Aug 8, 2020
    GAM, Baloo, kznny and 1 other person like this.
  8. Cleave only works with axes. Level field is a better skill.
     
    Posted Aug 8, 2020
    Baloo and kznny like this.
  9. I like the idea of this but
    1. Would Flaym/Devs approve if it? Would they even ever look at it? Flaym probably devs would be like meh
    2. That Melee damage is going to be needed to be buffed to something
    I see where this is coming from
     
    Posted Aug 8, 2020
    GAM, Baloo and kznny like this.
  10. I like the idea of adding new legendaries, however, I feel that other aspects of clans should be prioritized before adding full-blown new content. However in a perfect world, yes, I like the idea of mixing things up a little and switching up the meta. You did very well on elaborating your points and thoroughly explaining each skill. Keep up the great work :)
     
    Posted Aug 8, 2020
    GAM, Baloo and kznny like this.
  11. New aspects like what? LMAO Getting some of the devs up off their A$$'s?
     
    Posted Aug 9, 2020
  12. 1. No, they literally don't look at ideas like this. Flaym has no say over what the developers code.
    2. Facts
     
    Posted Aug 9, 2020
    GAM likes this.
  13. I can see your point about the damage being a little on the low side. Maybe an increase to 6 dmg for cleave would make it more appealing, it would be the same as an iron sword. So an 8 base dmg with a 6 dmg cleave to anyone within 3 blocks of the affected target.

    Now as for Divine Protection it would only give you Resistance 1 (which on its own isn't that much of an aide, but paired with decent reinforced helps out quite a bit). But I can see what you mean about it becoming OP. So I think that it should not combo with defensive abilities like Void/Hold Position. Like if you activate it and receive Resistance 1 and then activate Hold Position and get Resistance 2 it would cancel out the Resistance 1, meaning that the damage reduction does not stack with abilities. If popping Divine Protection and using it to run away becomes an issue it could be coded that you lose the buff when switching off of the Warhammer (Same for Holy Light).

    I really love the "Lightning Strike" ability as that combos well with the cleave nature of the legend. Maybe revamping "Crusaders Might" into "Crusaders Judgement" could be cool. Where-in the base damage is increased to 10, the cleave is increased to 8. Flaming/Frosted/Jagged runes now apply to cleaved targets, and you "judge" your opponents by smiting them with a lightning strike (Lightning Orb) which would do 4 damage to anyone in a 6 block radius of you.


    So I would be fine with Holy Light only healing 3-4 hearts but you have to consider that using it doesn't always mean you will get Regeneration 4. If you're banking on the fact that when you activate it you will get Regen 4 and gain an extra 5 hearts to win the fight but you get Regen 2 instead it could end badly for you. But maybe having it be a gamble where either you get a predetermined amount of health (4 hearts) but at a different rate (Regen 2-4). Or you get a predetermined Regen level (2-4) and a random amount of hp (3-5) hearts when activated. That way it isn't a consistent advantage you can depend upon, I think that role should be left to the Broad (as you can always control how much HP you gain). Also, I think the broad should be buffed in terms of being able to hit and heal but that is for a different thread. Holy Light would only apply when you are holding the Warhammer, so you can't just pop it and then wind away or switch the scythe. If you want the Regen you have to be using the War hammer. As for Divine Protection, I've discussed it above about potential nerfs but know that it wouldn't stack with Hold Position or Void.

    As for the cleaving mobs, I honestly really like it. Know, I can see your point about making raids easier but isn't that what legends are for? By taking in a legend to the raid you are not only risking losing it to another clan before you get there but to raid-wipes like Gatekeeper Magmus or even Charles Witherton. In a perfect world, I'd like to see raids be buffed (in terms of difficulty) before this would be added anyways.

    I love the idea of this being an "event-specific" drop like the Scythe is, I've got another post on the back burner for potential events with their own drops. So I'm definitely a fan of this idea, and I'd love to see it implemented for current legends as well.

    Yes, I 100% agree that new legends need to be added into the game, hence the two suggestions I've developed. I believe that legends are similar to Overwatch in the form of metas and balancing. When a new Overwatch hero is added it drastically changes the meta of the game, as people develop new strategies and tactics to beat out their opponents. Without changes, people find one meta and stick with it, as it works the best with minimal effort. For instance, Overwatch has had "Dive", "Goats", and many others reign supreme when new changes were introduced. Now, just because these metas exist doesn't always mean you need to run them, they just provide an easier way to win. Currently, I would argue the clans' meta consists of "Wind, Hyper, Scepter" as they provide the best advantage in all three categories. Wind gives you the best of vertical and horizontal movement, although it still has weaknesses (Maul & Water). Hyper provides one of the highest DPS's for a melee legend, and Scepter deals massive damage that generally wins you fights against another legend user. Now back to Overwatch, just because one meta exists doesn't mean that you have to run it. Running a different team composition and winning just takes a bit more skill. You can still beat someone with a hyper if you have a scythe, you just need to use your cards right. But adding in new legends and balancing old ones would shift the meta and give people more options when it comes to what they want to use.

    Cleave scaling with the number of enemies nearby could be cool (Maybe as the players around you increase the base damage of your legend will decrease and the cleave damage will increase). I don't think that with more people you should do less damage, as normal cleave doesn't change or decrease when the number of players around fluctuates and decreasing the damage would remove the purpose for this legend to be useful. Why use the cleave legend if when more people attack you your damage output decreases, this would make people opt for the hyper or scythe instead.

    For you other points I agree 100%. I really think the broad needs a buff as it basically got shoved to the side when it was first nerfed. Now the main use for it is to just heal, I rarely ever see people use it as a melee weapon which was its intention in the first place (with such high damage). As for non runed scythes, I agree they can sometimes be lackluster when compared to S3-4 scythes, but they still hold up quite nicely. I don't think you should be able to rune them still, as a Frosted Sharp Scythe of the Fallen Lord of Haste really scares me and nerfs assassin back into the ground. Maybe just upping the chance for a runed scythe and maybe mixing up the runes a bit could be cool.

    Well, the ability was inspired by a BetterPvP brute ability called "Resistance" (iirc), where you take less damage but also inflict less damage. When activating Divine Protection it might take you longer to kill another player but they also do less damage, this gives you more time to react and realize if you are getting low and need to leave or heal up with a broad or soup. Now I could see it becoming an issue with nerfing cleave damage which is already 6 and Weakness 1 would take it down to (2) so maybe a custom effect that only reduces damage by 2 would be better.

    As for abilities pairing with legends, I still would love to see Swordsmanship apply to legendaries, if other classes get the same treatment (combo, backstab, overwhelm, etc) I don't see why knight can't as well. I remember SamitoD saying he would get it patched in an alpha video but I still don't think it ever has been. I haven't tested it but I'm pretty sure it still doesn't work with legends. Using Swordsmanship with the Broad would provide massive damage (I think it's +1 per charge? Can't get on to check atm.) but still give you the defense you need to fight other legend users.

    Flaym, the CM, and CI (If Flaym includes them) team are responsible for designing updates for the gamemode. I was lucky enough to get to provide my own feedback and ideas for the upcoming map reset (Which I'm very happy with and hope people are pleased with it, it may not be new content but I think it addresses some very important issues within the game) so hopefully, Flaym will include the CI team for when Season 7 content is being drafted. Developers do not choose what goes into content updates, the GI (Game Insights team) does. The GI team designs a document for potential changes and new content and a developer implements them.

    Yeah, of course, I 100% agree with you. If this were to be implemented I feel that it should be saved for a full-blown season with other new content to go along with it. Now, players currently aren't happy with the planned map reset as no one really knows when we will be selected for DEV time. But when we do I think that what we have planned addressed a lot of concerns and would help fix up the other aspects of clans. This is why I'm all for having a map reset currently rather than a new season as I think there are quite a few things that need to be addressed.

    This is just untrue, Flaym is the clans admin so he is the one who gets to have the final say with proposed updates. As I've said above the CM and CI (if included) team help him with designing and conceptualizing new content that gets pushed to the DEVs. He gets to choose what he wants to see changed within the game and what new content he would like to see be added. For normal gamemodes, the Game Insights team drafts documents for proposed balancing changes and new additions and then submits it to the DEV/LT teams for implementation, so Flaym has the final say on what he would like to see be added into the game but the Developer and Leadership team get to decide when it will be implemented (or if something just isn't possible to add in the code) as another game might be up for developer time before us.

    Thanks for the feedback everyone! I very much appreciate it and I hope this extremely long reply has helped out with balancing the Warhammer. Let me know if you have any other suggestions or concerns.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 13, 2020
    Daskyrules1 likes this.

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