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Nerf evade

Discussion in 'Clans' started by TheMostHandledMedal, Sep 22, 2020.

?

Nerf Evade's cooldown and limit the number of Evades?

  1. Y

    8 vote(s)
    32.0%
  2. N

    17 vote(s)
    68.0%
  1. Evade is a powerful ability that allows a user to teleport behind an opponent (or opponents) and consistantly deal damage. It's cooldown is rather short considering the ability and the time left open to hit the evade is rather long, which gives the assassin kit a large advantage over other kits, sheerly off of evade. It can be spammed, hit, generally used easily to defeat any kit, which for a set like itself is too broken. The assassin kit can already outrun and recover better than any other kit. To add to this, players can often use hacks in combination with this kit, which already gives it a lot of potential and is sometimes completely unnoticeable. A simple nerf to the evade can fix a part of this issue, as the rest of its abilities to my knowledge are balanced. A higher cooldown time and a limit on the amount of evades that can be made, I.E. 3, 4 or 5.
     
    Posted Sep 22, 2020
    GAM likes this.
  2. You can see all of the Champions GI Update Proposals here. And here is what they have planned for evade:

    I feel this is sufficient and your experiences come down to a player skill issue. Instead of hitting someone's evade, you should wait until the timer is up (the timer is shortened as you can see above). One of the benefits of Evade over Illusion is that you can use it as many times as you want if you do it successfully. I don't believe in punishing skilled players when the most direct solution is to not hit the evade.
     
    Posted Sep 22, 2020
    Susie likes this.
  3. In my opinion, evade takes a lot of skill to use because it requires the player to not only time his hits but also their evades. The community, in general, has learned to master the ability, therefore making it harder to fight, and eventually, people who weren't as good whilst using it started using unapproved modifications in their client in order to combat those who were.

    I'm not completely against nerfing evade but I also see it as one of the few abilities that require actual skill. Looking at the changes that Champions GI has in their documents, I would like to think they made sure the change they're proposing doesn't completely "kill" the ability and instead it's just a mild nerf.
     
    Posted Sep 22, 2020
  4. To add to this post, I agree that it is a skilled ability and also as said is very good, not to take away from skilled players, but it is also very broken. It can be spammed in an unlimited amount, and even if you don't hit the evade they often punish you and they are also capable of running away most fights. Granted IT IS skill to be able to do these things, but in my opinion it also isn't fair that a "skilled" set or ability has the potential to beat most other sets in a fight, or have a high potential to win. It's simply a thought I have, but I would say that it does need a nerf for what it is. Not to kill the Assassin set as a whole, but to nerf an OP ability that gives it more potential on top of what it already is.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 22, 2020
  5. I agree and to add to this there are some strategies you can use to better counter evade if you cannot wait for the update.

    It has been brought up that even if you do not hit an assassins evade, the assassin can simply run away and wait for their recharge to finish before pressuring you again. To stop this, try using abilities that inflict slowness to prevent assassin mobility skills or recall from working. Every class has access to skills that cause slowness, all of which are viable options. Some examples include Takedown, Bulls Charge, Fissure, Illusion, Barbed Arrows. If are able to read an assassins evade and stop yourself from activating it try immediately hitting them with slowness to prevent them from escaping. Assassins have the lowest max health in the game and it really shows once they're out of escape options.

    I've made a post that goes into more detail on the here.

    All of these strategies will be even more viable with a reduced evade frame as the GI document has planned.
     
    Posted Sep 23, 2020
    Paladise likes this.
  6. bro at this point everyone is just asking for no sin abilities for them to be happy, remove illusion, smoke bomb, and now evade whats next remove flash it lets you get away from fights 2 op
     
    Posted Sep 23, 2020
  7. Lot of people in this thread tryna say that they're trying to punish skilled players. I don't think you've ever fought an assassin using kill aura and evade.
     
    Posted Sep 24, 2020
    TheMostHandledMedal likes this.
  8. I like evade though
     
    Posted Sep 24, 2020
  9. if you think evade is too good you just are bad at the game.
     
    Posted Sep 25, 2020
    JacksonHD and Jarif like this.
  10. Cheaters/Rule breakers shouldn't be a reason to remove an ability. In my opinion, they shouldn't even be considered when balancing a skill because we can just assume that they will be punished for breaking the rules. However, if there's a glitch such as invisibility with Illusion then, in that case, it can be removed since it's something that happens randomly without a person trying to replicate said glitch.
     
    Posted Sep 25, 2020
  11. So like evading into bases or evading through blocks?
     
    Posted Sep 25, 2020
  12. GI made a change I believe about reducing the fail timer which I agree with. Other than that I don't know what else to change about evade because if you know how to counter evade, it's pretty easy to kill assassins. It takes skill to get better at evading, but you should probably practice countering evade by 1v1ing friends which is what I did.
     
    Posted Sep 26, 2020
  13. It's true. People will always complain about assassin because of the their incompetence, it's time they learn to counter it and develop skills to know when to hit assassins and when not to.
     
    Posted Sep 26, 2020
  14. Boi I've played clans for 3 years, and I will say my skill is on and off but I am not a noob. Evade has some issues with its abilities in combination with the set, period. Even a mod addressed it. THANK YOU btw, Pwess.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 26, 2020
  15. My bad, one more thing to dive into that I did not previous make note of was the slowness effect on assassins. One major thing to note is that yes, Assassin set does often have a counter and can be slowed to counter abilities such as Evade, but at the same time there are multiple routes this takes as well with their own issues. Outcome 1. for slowing is a water bottle, which clears all negative effects, making it easy for an Assassin to escape. When abilities such as Bulls Charge hit their target, or Intimidation is activated (as they are the most common abilities with slowing against Assassin), they are still easy to avoid using bottles. On Bulls Charge it is easy to avoid because even when slowed WITHOUT a bottle you can still use a secondary recall to avoid most damage and once all effects wear off they can simply run, chip away at other sets, or the most frustrating of all, evade. Evade can be used when slowed, which is rather frustrating considering most of the Assassin's abilities already give it an edge including but not limited to the given scenario I gave on slowing.

    To go into Pwess's response earlier, even if the frame of Evade is reduced (unless it is not minor), it has no effect on its utility which makes Assassin quite a grueling set to deal with. Also, in particular in the Clans space there are typically a few viable responses to Assassin's abilities, Intimidation and Bulls charge with an occasional Fissure. The response including the slowing abilities did not count for abilities nerfed or banned in clans, if I might add.

    To go into complaints from CERTAIN individuals-

    1. I agree that it is a hasty statement to say that an ability needs a nerf due to cheating, and I refrain from saying anything more on the matter, but it is rather frustrating that a set which initially requires skill is taken advantage of by individuals who ruin the game for others by using these cheats, and as I have said before I believe that if Mineplex wishes to be legalistic on laws for reports for/or hacking, they should be more strict and less hang-loose on those who have been caught purposefully hacking or cheating in Clans. However I think that should be done with caution in consideration with glitches, some can be done accidentally.

    2. Calling others incompetent for not knowing how to deal with a skill is both reasonable and unreasonable. If an individual does not know how to deal with said skill, they can be considered inexperienced or bad yes, but not incompetent. It is entirely different for a skill to be good than for it to be good and to be put on a set that gives it more advantages that compliment it than needed. It is incompetence and foolishness on your part for not thinking of these aspects of the issues beforehand, SaturnHD. However, I do see where you are coming from considering given methods to beat evade, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

    3. This one comes from Borderrr. I appreciate the helpful comment, but realistically even if you practice and run into someone good, the odds are that you will not win. I have practiced with several other good players beforehand with Assassin and briefly discussed these issues with them, and most agreed with me to a degree. Evade is a very good ability for what it is. As previous said (and from thinking it over), I think that evade needs a simple Evade limit, after a certain number of evades in a row there can be no more evades for a certain amount of time. This doesn't touch Assassin as roughly as killing it, but fixes other issues and leads to the set being extremely overpowered. Come to think of it, I haven't even brought up Assassins in groups yet, I'll discuss that another time.

    4. That isn't exactly what I mean MathFox, that is already something that is bannable and isn't a topic of discussion for this issue. However, thank you.

    5. Unertqker, if a set has a genuine issue it needs to be fixed. Smoke Bomb and Illusion had several issues with glitching and overall power, and many ask for a nerf on evade for reasonable issues as well. It is a completely different perspective for a player who uses Assassin to see these issues.

    6. Unrelease I like Evade to a degree as well, but not with what it is right now.

    7. As I have said, I agree. It is a skilled ability and skilled players have made it viable, but like I said it isn't exactly healthy for a game to have a skilled players shred many others using a set or ability that in theory is mild, but is OP. It's like wielding a sword to that degree, if you're skilled with one sword it is quite useful and can be to your advantage, until you see someone else with a much more effective one. I am open to being proven wrong, but I do think that Evade needs some kind of limit.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 26, 2020
  16. Why should a mobility based kit be able to take on a control based kit like knight with such ease?
     
    Posted Oct 1, 2020
  17. A mod addressing it doesn’t mean anything LOL, it’s as simple as “just don’t hit the blocking sword and he’s useless”. I don’t know what you’ve been doing for 3 years but you need some practice if you still think evade is op
     
    Posted Oct 10, 2020

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