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In Discussion Mixed Arcade Balance Changes

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by zvvx, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. Hi there! These are some of my personal suggestions for how to improve mixed arcade. I will be giving feedback on each mode individually so first up is Bacon Brawl.

    Bacon Brawl: A simple sumo type mode is a nice addition to arcade. However, I feel like games may sometimes drag on for a few minutes too long. Once there is around 2 to 3 players left, most will avoid each other in order to survive longer. A quick fix for this would be to add in a closing world boarder, forcing players to compete for the center.

    Bomb Lobbers: This blow-up the other teams area is not as fun as it sounds. This is simply about who can throw TNT faster. A complete rework may need to be done. Having a free for all mode where the goal is to blow up as many other players as possible may be a good rework.

    Death Tag: This infected/Hide and go seek mode definitely has potential. Most of the time, the chaser team wins. The human/non-chaser team could use a simple weapon or armor buff to balance the teams.

    Micro Battle: Fun mode but has the same problem as Bacon Brawl. Increasing the rate at which the world boarder eats the world could help push players to the middle.

    Milk the cow: Boring but has potential. Instead of a multi teams, all players are the farmers. The cows then become AI which quickly move around the map making it a challenge to receive milk from them.

    Monster Maze: Currently way too random. The area in which the player has to go to spawns randomly in the map, making it difficult to know which way to go. Instead, Monster Maze could be a linear race going from one part to the next.

    Runner and Super Spleef are both similar in many ways. In both, you are removing blocks from under you to eliminate players. One game may leave but otherwise they function nicely.

    Snake: May last a bit too long. Quick fix would be to extend snakes (players) sheep, possibly by gaining more over time.

    Sneaky Assassins: Games can last really long and it can get boring spectating. Some players ignore power ups completely in order to stay alive. Instead of having the last person alive become winner, the player with the most kills could become winner. No elimination.

    Wither Assault: Some maps put survivors in a position of easy defeat. Other maps put the Withers in a position of easy defeat. Reworking maps could help. Maps that are not too flat to let Withers kill Survivors easily. But not too guarded that Withers can't affect Survivors.

    Mixed Arcade modes that were not mentioned are most likely balanced as much as they can be.
    Feel free to comment and let me know your thoughts and opinions.
     
    Posted Aug 19, 2019
    Animalll likes this.
  2. Personally, I actually agree with almost everything you said, a closing border for bacon brawl and Micro Battles would be a really good addition to speed games up.

    Bomb lobbers is like you said, a game about who can throw the TNT faster, so I would actually love to see a FFA version of it.

    Death tag is more balanced than the other games, but it wouldn't hurt to give the hiders a weapon to fight away from the infected players.

    Milk the cow is pretty boring, but with the cow AI and everyone being farmers, it would be a good change.

    Monster Maze is a longer game, so it is boring to watch when spectating, so your change could be a nice improvement for the game.

    Runner and spleef are pretty similar, but I think they should stay the same since they both have differences.

    Adding a longer snake line would be a pretty good addition to speed up games.

    And I also like the idea of having the most eliminations as the winner since someone can just camp until the other player is low on HP and just clean up the kill, so it would kind of defeat the purpose of being an "Assassin".

    And finally, I do agree with the wither assault idea you have. Some maps are biased for survivors, while others are for withers. So some map reworking would be a good benefit for the game in general.

    Great ideas, and good thinking! I love all of the ideas you came up with in this thread, so thanks for sharing it on the forums! :D
     
    Posted Aug 19, 2019
  3. Hey!
    I think it's really great of you to start brainstorming some possible solutions/additions to some Mixed Arcade games to overall improve the game play. I read through all of your ideas for each mini game, and I do agree with most of them, and think they'd be great additions. Here are my personal opinions on each of the points you made.

    Bacon Brawl, I agree can drag on for some time, players do tend to stand around and kind of stall the game for a while, and although I don't see it as such a big problem, now you have mentioned a closing border idea, I really think it would fit in well with BB.

    For Bomb Lobbers, I would like to see a FFA version like mentioned above, but I do enjoy how it currently is because when it's only a couple of players left on both teams, it is fun because there is suspense, and as the islands begin to become smaller from the spam of TNT, the game begins to come to an end. I do understand where you are coming from. I personally don't play Bomb Lobbers a lot because it causes my ping to rise significantly.

    I agree with your Death Tag suggestion. It is a pretty balanced game in my opinion, but I do sometimes see the games quickly end due to all of the Hiders dying. It would be interesting to see an alteration of the game mode, where Hiders have some more abilities/powers. Maybe giving them a jumping effect, or even a little bit of armor could work out well. It is very important though that the game mode stays generally balanced, so that neither teams are at a disadvantage.

    I like Micro Battles, and although it can drag on a bit, I believe that the game is more fun when it takes that bit longer. Different to Bacon Brawl, you can build up into the sky, hide in towers, or even hide under the ground level, and this creates a challenge for the other team to find them and try to kill them. I personally like this challenging aspect of the game, but I do also see how adding a closing border could work. Perhaps a map crumble coming from each corner of the map, but I would hope that it doesn't degrade the map too fast, because it could cause Micro Battles to loose that fun, challenging team aspect.

    Nice change suggestion for Milk the Cow. I honestly am not a fan of the game and find it quite boring. I do like your thought into this alteration though.

    Monster Maze does go on for a while, and making it a race could be a nice game alteration, and I support this addition, as long as the path of the race is not the same every game, otherwise players with more experience in the game will know where to go straight away, giving them no real challenge. I am not sure if that makes sense writing it out. Nice alteration idea though, I would consider playing it if implemented.

    As for Spleef and Runner, I am a big fan of both of these game modes. Although they share one similarity of breaking blocks underneath players, the method of how the blocks are broken are different. Therefor, I would not want to see the removal of one of these games. They are both super fun and challenging, and I enjoy playing them.

    I can not at all play Snake as I lag out of the game, but when I have watched it on other peoples videos, I think the games can drag on for a bit. This is a nice suggestion, I don't know too much about the game mode so I couldn't be sure if it would remain balanced and fair, but I would assume this addition to the game would be handy for many players.

    Nice Sneaky Assassin alteration. Like mentioned above, it would be nice to see this. It would add a different aspect to the game. Players would now try very hard to get kills and find out who isn't an ordinary villager. I think this could work out pretty well, and could help ensure the games are moving along smoothly and not being stalled by players.

    Some minor map reworking of Wither Assault maps sounds fine to me. I played it the other day in the big maze map, and can see how some reworking could definitely benefit the game.

    Once again, I really like and appreciate how you've suggested these modifications. They are minor improvements (mostly related to the time a game lasts for), but overall improves game play! Perhaps more players will want to play Mixed Arcade, and they won't leave after they have died. Thanks for posting these suggestions! :)
     
    Posted Aug 19, 2019
  4. I don't really agree with most of the suggestions you have.

    There is already a mechanic that speeds up the game. At set intervals, everyone starts taking more knockback from hits. This makes it more difficult to survive for long when there aren't many players left as it's easier to get hit off. I think this is good enough to make sure that the games don't drag on forever. A closing world border would just force a 1 v 1 to be over almost instantly, as it's based on whoever manages to get the first hit. That's not really fun and that becomes more luck-based than skill.

    This seems like a subjective point, where you don't find the game that fun. That's fine, but it's not a strong point in favour of a rework. The game is also a lot more than "who can throw TNT faster". It's about throwing TNT at the right angle and being good at dodging. As for a free for all mode, it already sort of exists as Nano Wizards.

    I do agree with this one. I think the game is a little unbalanced in the chaser's favour. There seem to only be a few spots on each map that don't result in you dying instantly, which are places you can camp and easily stop any chaser from ever reaching you if you're good enough with a bow. I don't really know of a way to balance this. Regarding chasers always winning, I think a good change would also be to remove the alpha chaser roulette that happens as it just sucks the fun out of the game. Once it gets down to maybe 5 humans left, alpha chaser should be removed. It's useful at the beginning if the alpha chaser doesn't do anything or can't get anyone so that the game doesn't last forever, but as it stays for the entire game, it almost always comes down to who is luckiest and doesn't get made into an alpha chaser.

    I don't think any change is necessary. I think corruption moves at a good pace already. Any quicker and it would eliminate any strategies other than rushing other teams. I'm not sure if it does this already, but the speed of corruption could be proportional to the number of players left, similarly to the SG border. This would help end 1 v 1s where each team is stalling or someone is hiding underground or in a skybase, but would still keep the game fun and interesting by allowing slower strategies when more players are still alive.

    I agree with you here - Milk the Cow is very boring. Instead of your suggestion, I think a better balance change would be to decrease the number of normal cows that spawn, as this makes it so easy for the farmers to drink milk without being in danger from the player cows. This would make it easier for the cows to win as right now, it's almost impossible for them to do so. The player cows could also receive an AOE ability as there aren't many cows compared to humans and so it's almost impossible to stop every farmer.

    The safe pads are not random. There's one in each corner of the map. There is a compass in your hotbar which points to the direction of the next safe pad, as well as the beacon to show where it is. Granted, the beacon sometimes doesn't render very quickly so there might be a second or two of uncertainty at the beginning of the next round, but it is definitely not random. Another tip would be to look at each corner because at about 3 seconds before the next round starts, the green clay spawns for the next safe pad. This can give you an indication of where to go in advance. I'm not sure how a linear race would work, but it doesn't exactly fit with the game Monster Maze. Perhaps an alternate gamemode where it's a linear race, but that would most likely require Monster Maze to have an NPC which I don't think it ever has. Regardless, Monster Maze doesn't get enough players (sadly) to warrant an extra gamemode.

    They are quite similar but they're vastly different games in terms of strategy. I don't think it would be fair to remove one of them.

    An issue with having longer snakes is that it would become unplayable for many people due to the number of entities. The games don't last too long anyway, and wouldn't you agree that having the games go on for a longer amount of time is better than having them be shorter, but unplayable for a lot of people?

    It's okay for some games to last a bit longer! Having the winner be the person with the most eliminations just goes against the point of the game. It's called Sneaky Assassins. You have to be sneaky and pick off players when it's safe to do so. There are other arcade games for killing as many people as you can e.g. OITQ, Turf Wars, Paintball. If every PVP game was a free for all bloodbath, it wouldn't be very fun. By making the aim of the game to get as many kills as possible, it removes all other strategies from the game except for being aggressive. That makes the game stale. Right now, there are probably 3 main strategies in this game - being sneaky and not interacting with anyone until there's only one person left, getting as many powerups as you can but not fighting anyone, and being aggressive. If the game was purely elimination based, you'd remove the first two strategies. There's nothing worse than making an update to a game that removes viable ways to play.

    I agree with you here, although I believe Wither Assault is technically still in alpha, so it's understandable that work needs to be done on the game. The slowness the withers get when they either go too high on Labyrinth or too low on the other two maps is so huge it becomes so difficult to return to where you're supposed to be. This is made worse on the industrial map (I've forgotten the name) where you get slowed when you're close to the ground but there are places for the humans to hide in tunnels underneath the map. This means you have to chase and kill them while having slowness 4 which is infuriating. A good balance change would be to do something with the player tracker then wither team gets. Either increase the cooldown or make it only show the way to the person closest to you, like in SG. It's a bit overpowered to be able to see the direction of every human every 35 seconds.

    Just a final thought. A reoccurring complaint of yours about the games is that they take too long. I don't think this is an issue. Obviously, they shouldn't go on for too long, but there's no need to make every game be over super quickly. That's what Nano Games are for. If you want really quick mini-games, play Nano, as that's what it's designed for. As I've mentioned already, by adding mechanics that shorten games, you can eliminate certain strategies and make games such as Micro Battles very black and white. Let's use the example of Micro Battles. If you were to increase the corruption spread, the Worker kit would become almost pointless, as there's no need to be able to gather more blocks if the only good strategy is to rush other teams. This would make the only viable kits Archer and Fighter. No one likes being forced to choose certain kits. I think the games should be allowed to last (relatively) long in order to preserve the diversity and replayability of the games.
     
    Posted Aug 19, 2019
    Airolt likes this.
  5. Players already take more knock back per hit after a certain amount of time has passed. A closing border would just be about who gets the first hit.

    It is more than just about who can throw TNT faster. Since it is a team game, coordinating shots with your team will also help as you can trap opponents by surrounding them with TNT.

    The second part of this suggestion needs clarity. How will the map look like?

    I have never seen the runners "win." Only one individual wins and it is whoever survives the longest.

    Increasing the rate of land corruption will make archer and the towers less useful. Archers' bows are not effective in melee combat and the being several blocks away from the middle will be corrupted within a minute or two.

    I do not play these two game modes so I cannot comment anything useful.

    What do you mean that they can "leave?"

    Snake is already a fast-paced game that can usually ends in about one minute.

    I do not play these either.

    -1

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    Posted Aug 19, 2019
    Xukuri likes this.
  6. I agree with some changes like Bacon Brawl, Microbatlle, and Snake.
    I do not agree with some of the others.
    Bomb lobber is an amazing game mode, I don't see a change needed.
    For the Sneaky Assassin changes, what you suggested is already a game, One in the quiver.
    For death tag, humans are supposed to have a hard time. That's why you become a chaser when you die.
    Spleef and Runner are similar, but different game modes maybe alternation of them in the rotation would work?
    Monster Maze is supposed to be random to prevent players from memorizing the map.

    Thanks for reading,
     
    Posted Aug 19, 2019
  7. After some retesting and review, I have modified some of my statements.

    Bacon Brawl: There will most likely be an aggressive player in the final 2 to 4 players to speed the game up. Plus as mentioned above, knockback is increased enough.

    Bomb Lobbers: I take back what I said about who can throw the most TNT. There is a skill in aiming the TNT and surviving. Which means that if you are decent enough, the game is fun.

    Death Tag: I still feel like the chaser team has a bit of an upper hand but not be enough to rebalance.

    Micro Battle: Micro Battle has enough of a fan base that it could be moved out of Mixed Arcade and still see play.

    Milk the Cow: Most seem to agree that this mode becomes boring. My change or maybe removing AI cows can help out with the more Farmer vs Cow idea.

    Monster Maze: This mode is still in need of some work but is not a priority.

    Snake: I agree that adding more may cause more lag. The game is fine as is.

    Sneaky Assassins: Players are not encouraged enough to fight other players. I stand by my original statement.

    Wither Assault: Map changes will still help this mode out. Most agree.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 19, 2019
  8. A Deathmatch for Sneaky Assassins might work.
     
    Posted Aug 19, 2019
  9. I'm struggling to accept your Monster Maze idea:

    As a monster maze lover, the randomness of the safe pads is what I like, you can't predict where it's going to be and memorize. You also have a compass which shows you where safe pads are, in case you are having trouble finding them. (there is also a beacon which comes from the safe pad).

    Monster Maze's concept was to have the player weave their way to a safe pad through monsters, and was not meant to be a race.

    Good ideas though!
     
    Posted Aug 19, 2019

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