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Miss minecraft speech freedom?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by CubicalMayhem, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. Since 1.19.1 players can report chat messages of a specific player, and if the reported player will be found "guilty" he will be banned forever in every minecraft server. As expected, it is already used against players in a wrong way leading false bans and huge community protests. Any popular post about this is getting removed constantly. After a month of #saveminecraft protest Mojang did not change anything and only said that they had fixed a couple of exploits related to report system. About 7 days ago mojang community manager MojangMeesh posted a comment:

    Hi there, everyone. With this RC release, we wanted to reach out and address two things.

    First, we know that there has been pushback to the player reporting system that is being introduced in this next update. We appreciate and value your feedback, but it does not mean that feedback will always change the design principles Mojang Studios adheres to -- this includes the upcoming reporting system.

    Second, while we understand this may not be the answer some of you were hoping for, we are not planning on changing it. There have been some folks following Mojang employees around here on Reddit, responding to unrelated posts from them and commenting about this system. Please understand that this behavior does not encourage employees to reach out to the community, nor will it bring about the changes you're wanting. If you feel strongly about something in Minecraft, please tell us in the appropriate locations (such as these threads) because we want to hear what you have to say! However, harassment does not help anyone: not the devs who receive it, nor the players who are passionate about an upcoming change. We want to maintain a constructive and open dialogue with you, and this kind of behavior inhibits that."

    This is beginning of the end. It is clearly that all those changes such as report system and forced account migration are forwarded by Microsoft and there is no clue that it will get better any time soon. We have already witnessed Mojang making huge delays, splitting updates into two and removing many content in latest updates which is already worrying. Seems like Microsoft cares about money only and that being sad, it began to touch our legendary game.

    We love minecraft for its freedom, not for its censorship. #saveminecraft
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
  2. I think that while it could be used for Good it’s been implemented really poorly. Also a lot of servers have figured out how to effectively disable chat reporting and you’re right that the exploits need to be patched ASAP although to be honest I don’t know how they can expect every chat message to be legitimate considering how open source everything else
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    tori likes this.
  3. You guys aren't being censored at all. The reporting feature was added so the bad cookies can get banned, while the good cookies get to remain in the player base. You guys act like this is the end of the world. It's not. Microsoft doesn't get a say in what is put into Minecraft at all.

    Helen Angel (A Ex-Mojang worker) stated on Twitter
    You are all overreacting and not even giving the reporting feature a chance. I see this as a very good and welcome the change. Bedrock has an in-game reporting feature and I'm very happy to see it come to Java in some way.

    FYI not all bans will be permanent. They can range in time.

    Please. Do your research before adding to the misinformation that is going on about the reporting feature.

    You can learn more here and here!
    Posted Aug 3, 2022,
    Last edited Aug 3, 2022
  4. If someone really bothers you, you can turn off the chat. Imagine paying for a game and then getting banned on anarchy server for saying "I destroyed your house with tnt haha". You are too naive to believe it will be fine with reports. Most of reports will just be as a tool to revenge at smbdy who made him/her angry.
    As it showed up, it's easy to cut phrase out of context and make it look like it was a hard insult. If you did not notice my friend, since 2015 minecraft had become way more censored when microsoft bought it. It is not bad until they touched speech freedom. Again! Nobody cares that you do not like something in your mc chat. If you do not want to see it just press P and mute this guy who says something bad.
    The thing you said about "good" and "bad" cookies is really stupid. Resentful people always will be no mater what will you do. For an instance instead of targeting/insulting, they can report you for a hate speech and how insulted they are (especially when we talk about LGBT when any word could be easily taken as an insult). The thing you need is to make it look like your words are an insult. And congratulations! You are banned! If you really interested you can google more about it. This politics is fine for free games, but not for minecraft. Many players are spiteful and toxic no matter what you do. They can just make it in another way. Ruining, cheating, reporting and many other ways. You can see the same thing in Dota, LoL, CS GO where reports are mostly used as a threatening tool rather then for justice. Some mods already have auto report which isn't that great.
    The thing is many servers are built on toxicity. Especially anarchy and competitive ones. Cmon have you seen a guy that wins you and says something like "ez" or "ez noob". This is the way he gets interested in gamemode and actively playing in a server. It is why he keeps playing it because he feels great when he is better then someone. Almost every game is built on such a thing. Now imagine him getting banned for those words. Will he keep playing it if saying something in a chat and speaking with someone is really risky? Nah he might just go into other game and do the same. Minecraft have enough functions to make your gaming experience without toxic messages.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 3, 2022
  5. Well, I’d say 95% of Minecraft veteran players for bedrock and Java.( And I mean playing for a while like 6-8 years. ) almost always disagree with this new change. 1. We are the more mature group knowing that if we’ve been playing that long we should be in our late teens and early adult hood. Meaning most of us should be able to look at the current factors of a situation and make a responsible serious decision or opinion on something. 2 . Mojang is betting big time that it’s player base is going to grow more in the “young” demographic. First off all, this is for the Java addition, where the majority of “young” demographic sector do NOT reside. I do not see the “Young” demographic growing that much in the coming years with top level games competing just as well as Minecraft that want that same piece. I see more kids going to Fortnite rather than Minecraft considering that mojang only reaches out to its audience via; forums, gaming news sites, and social media ads on YouTube and snap, and twitter posts. Mojang, with the rate of which releasing ads on YouTube, your not going to be growing your young sector a lot. 3 . If your betting on content creators to appeal to “young” demographic, you’ve got a handful a threads that can do that. Kids at least the way kids like me grew up in my community and such, want to be apart of something that is usually older than themselves. What I mean by that is for example you have an 8 year old, he’s gunna try to do things like his 16 year old brother. Kids may not be looking for baby/family friendly content like aphmau. They’re going to be trying to look for more edgy, funny content, probably not straight up insensitive content, but in the middle where they can feel “mature”. And if your implementing something the community does not like, your going to lose some content creators.
    Feel free to pm me if you feel liked I hit it spot on or missed a point. Peace.
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
  6. I'm going to 100% assume you didn't read the two sites I linked which go into FULL DETAIL about the Chat Reporting System and how it works.

    Let's get into why Mojang Studios (not Microsoft) added chat reporting!
    Mojang is trying to make Minecraft in general a better place. Minecraft is FOR EVERYONE. Not just your age. We have Kids on Bedrock as young as 4, and Kids at least 6+ years old on Java. Mojang is trying to make it a safer place for them. Like they said above they are providing safeguards that will keep all players safe and welcome in online environments.

    Let's look at how reports will be handled

    The reporting system isn't automatic at all. It is all 100% human. You might ask "Guardian What about people who will try to abuse this system!" Mojang gave us a great answer!

    • Abusing the system with fake reports will and can result in your account being banned in return.

      Mojang even mentioned something about content! Which you would have seen if you checked out the sites I linked!

      Before replying to my comment PLEASE take the time to do research about the stuff you talk about. You aren't losing your "Freedom of Speech" at all Mojang is trying to make the game overall user-friendly for everyone of all ages. They are free to do this as well due to \you accepting the ToS when buying/downloading the game. Those toxic servers you mention will most likely not be hurt by the 1.19.1 update and will most likely not support it/find a way around the chat reporting feature.
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    LockNess8221, tori and maevestarbaby like this.
  7. To be honest, everything's just getting chaotic right now so I think things will die down a bit a few months later. I don't know much about what's going on, I have a little care too because it doesn't really affect me but I just think this whole thing is getting chaotic
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
  8. Kids under 10 years aren't allowed to play minecraft... I am sorry to tell you but facts you have stated have almost no impact on reality. Do you really think that moderators will closely inspect each report case from ~40-60 millions players each day? Do you really believe a company which lies and does not trust it's own community? This is a chat report and could be cut out of context easily. Moderators cannot see the whole picture they can only rely on chat messages. For an instance player A says player B "Cmon jump of the cliff" because there was water pond under it. However someone will report player A for a harasment and suicide calls. Now player A is banned. What if I want to swear? Nah you will be censored, Did I mention that now saying the word "night" is actually a rule breaking? Now I have a real feeling you are a sort of hidden mojang/microsoft employee since the arguments you say is literally nonsense.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 3, 2022
  9. I do not think this is the end of Minecraft - that assertion is a conspiratorial slippery slope.

    Clearly, it is an unpopular decision for many people/servers in the community - most certainly for more "mature" and non-family friendly communities or whatever, as their behaviours seem to be at odds with this system.

    There are family friendly/young-oriented communities which are welcoming this.

    I'm not going to allege that you didn't read what Mojang has been saying like others here because that doesn't really do much beyond being a partial ad-hominem, but the way you seem to be rationalising this isn't productive, really. Pointing at it and concluding that it'll lead to the end of Minecraft does nothing; you could always look at it and propose some fixes, or at least provide some coherent arguments as to why this is bad. People (I have seen AntVenom at least) for instance are proposing that this be an optional feature which is on by default; and individuals can opt-out. I'd be for that.

    I don't have an issue with the essence of Meesh's statement for the most part; flaming the game developers is only an attack on them and shouldn't happen. Communication should also be done through the proper channels. Hyperbolic overreactions are a waste of energy.

    This isn't to say that I'm entirely in agreement with what's happening; I do have my misgivings, however I prefer to see how things develop.
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
  10. A poorly thought-out rant of random "facts" you parroted from various anti-reporting YouTube videos isn't a good way to get your point across, but nevertheless, I agree!

    I proudly display a "big tech sucks" Turning Point sticker over my laptop, maybe I should edit it to include "small tech" as well. Though they don't affect nearly as many people, I have just as much criticism for companies like Mojang, Game Freak, and Niantic as I do for FAANG and the like, and this is a shining example of why. It doesn't matter whether this was Microsoft or Mojang's doing, the fact is they did it, and now we're stuck with it, and it impacts anyone that plays on 1.19 onward or with people on 1.19 onward. It doesn't even matter what it is! Companies forcing an extremely unpopular update or feature on every last one of their consumers is never a good thing.

    As for this case, it's just too prone to abuse and human error, and you can't tell me otherwise. Do you really trust underpaid intern Braindead Ted to get it right every time? Imagine if real-life court verdicts and all the consequences that come with them came down to the decision of a single juror. Fool-proof! (And I'm not saying reports should undergo multiple reviews, that would make this whole thing even more ridiculous. I'm saying it shouldn't exist period.)

    Did anyone really ask for this garbage? No. This is just a crummy, controlling company trying to micro-manage their game. Minecraft is pretty tame by online social interaction standards and most multiplayer servers are well moderated. You Mineplex staff know that as well as anyone. As for Mojang, you could say all the power to them with something like this, but it's so much better when you leave all the power to us. It's an unnecessary, heavily flawed system and now we're stuck with it.
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
  11. Stating that kids under 10 aren’t allowed to play Minecraft isn’t necessarily true. That’s just an ESRB rating, and the ratings vary depending on where you look. These ratings don’t mean those younger than 10 can’t play, they just need parental consent. It’s a fact that there are young kids on both servers, and their protection is very important.

    As for Microsoft moderation itself, it might start of rocky during early release, but I think it will become more refined as time goes on. No matter how you moderate, there will always be people who disagree and feel like they’re being “silenced”.

    Also, keep in mind Microsoft moderators are paid, so if there are a few making mistakes I would assume they would be removed from the team.
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    tori and romvnly like this.
  12. Fake news. Microsoft is just doing its duty to ensure its community is up to standards. From NameMC, it looks like your account is only 2 years old. You've only known a Microsoft-governed Minecraft. I have as well.

    You can always appeal bans, lol. This isn't the first game to add chat moderation. Plus, the chat message would have to be reported first, which seems like a random thing to do. Moderators can read.

    Last time I checked, Minecraft wasn't you spend months or years in jail/prison. If one person makes a mistake, another can correct it with an appeal like every other game bro. I understand the hate for big/small tech tho 100%
    Posted Aug 4, 2022,
    Last edited by a Moderator Aug 4, 2022
  13. Losing access to major parts of a game that you paid $25-30 for just isn't right. It makes sense that someone would be banned from an individual server or realm if the owners/enforcers of said realm deemed that necessary. No one needs big daddy Mojang coming in and taking away your access to what may very well be everything you enjoy about their game all because of one, likely minor chat infraction. Minecraft multiplayer was a relatively safe and healthy environment for twelve years without any of this universal chat reporting garbage, and it's not just this. Before chat reporting, we had forced account migration a few months earlier, and Lord knows what they're going to try next. They know we're powerless to stop them and entirely at their mercy if we want to continue to play their game.

    You could argue that these two recent backlash instances are just people blowing things out of proportion, similar to how the COPPA changes to YouTube in late 2019/early 2020 were an impending disaster on everyone's radar and then they actually happened and really didn't make things any worse. With these two, you might (MIGHT, might, might...) be right, but OVERALL, it's a bad sign that Mojang/Microsoft are willing and able to go on a power trip and they're totally unchecked in doing so.
    Posted Aug 4, 2022
  14. Not a power trip, it’s proper moderation. Say something horrible and terrible and you lose access to the game. Just like how you get banned from a server after buying a donor rank you don’t get a refund, lol. It’s common sense
    Posted Aug 5, 2022
    Emiliee and tori like this.
  15. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say "proper" (remember the underpaid intern Braindead Ted instance from earlier). Minecraft never needed to be as squeaky clean as they want it to be, and quite frankly, I prefer it when it's not (and I don't think I'm in the minority on that). Their power trip isn't about them wanting to clean up the game, it's about them feeling like they can get away with whatever they want. 1.19.1 received huge backlash and their only message for the "haters" was basically just "screw you, we're doing it anyway". Mark my words this is not the last time we'll see something like this.
    Posted Aug 5, 2022
  16. This is the naive way to look at it.

    The reality is, these moderators will be earning barely-minimum-wage and/or be employed in a third world country. They will be paid by number of reports they go through, so they are incentivized to spend as little time as possible per report.
    There is a ~ ZERO percent chance that these content moderators will take context into account.

    But it's telling that exactly the server mods would be so strongly in favor of this new system.

    Anyways... After >6 years, Mineplex still has not updated past 1.8 - so as far as this server is concerned, most of us will have grown out of playing on here before we are forced into one of the censored MC versions.
    Posted Aug 5, 2022
    CubicalMayhem likes this.
  17. Yeah man, it’s their game. I don’t think you understand that developers can ruin the game if they want. It’s been done before numerous times with other games my guy. They can also try and ignore the backlash because that’s all it is. Hasn’t even gotten time to grow yet.

    That’s what appeals are for, they usually work on every game. Besides a few games like ROBLOX, where for some reason they deny appeals a lot.
    Posted Aug 5, 2022,
    Last edited by a Moderator Aug 5, 2022
  18. I already can't wait for what they're gonna do next... Before 2021 the only thing people groaned about was the occasional disappointing update.
    Posted Aug 5, 2022
  19. Who knows, to me Minecraft has reached the top of its potential and is destined to disappoint from further on. Sure the Warden is kinda cool but that’s all it is.
    Posted Aug 5, 2022
  20. The warden that got pushed back two updates.
    Posted Aug 5, 2022
    romvnly likes this.

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