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Minplex Ruining Turf Wars One Update at a Time (Bedrock)

Discussion in 'MCO/Bedrock Games' started by Sunkeiss, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. Hello, I've just looked at the Mineplex Bedrock proposals for the updates in the future, and by the looks of it, there will be more hiding in Turf Wars if some of these changes go through. Throughout my time play Turf Wars, my friends and I consistently face one major issue: People sitting in their bases in order to prevent the winning team from actually winning. Statements such as "I'd rather tie than lose" are often their motivation into hiding behind walls that we cannot break. This makes the game less enjoyable, as we all our efforts become meaningless. In order to try and combat this, we would kill the enemy team right as they spawn in, so they are not given the chance to hide inside their bases. Now, with the new potential update, the enemy team can spawn and have invincibility for four seconds, giving them enough time to hide behind the walls and tie with us. Not only this, but infiltrators that have the ability to enter the enemy's base will now take damage in the enemy base, which combats the purpose of getting rid of the people who hide and refuse to come out in Turf Wars. I don't believe the staff of Mineplex bedrock understands how important it is that these changes do not go through, because if they do, then there will be little to no chance of winning against the people who just hide in order to tie with the winning team.
     
    Posted Oct 5, 2020,
    Last edited Oct 5, 2020
  2. Greetings!

    To those who are interested, here is the link to the threads addressing this, and you can find planned updates here.

    As for my own opinion; I strongly disagree with giving players immediate invincibility. My reasoning is this, and as @Sunkeiss said, camping or waiting out the game is a huge problem in Turf. I don't have an issue with people shooting from the base because they are still shooting, and can therefore be shot in return. The issue arises when players purposely stand behind unbreakable walls where no one can reach them, and don't try at all to play the game, choosing instead to wait it out.
     
    Posted Oct 5, 2020
  3. they will get the spawn protection to prevent spawn killing. there will be ways to prevent camping in place as well.
     
    Posted Oct 5, 2020
    MysticMaster779 likes this.
  4. I would like to hear more about ways to prevent camping in place. Please do care to elaborate.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 5, 2020
    Fallen likes this.
  5. Hey-o,

    Basically what I was thinking (and this is a rough idea), is:

    - Server runs a check every [x] seconds to see if your team is camping (I won't specify how it does that, but let's just assume that it does).

    - If your team is camping, you will lose [x] turf to the other team, assuming they weren't camping.
    - If their team is camping, they will lose [x] turf to your team, assuming you weren't camping.
    - If both teams are camping, no turf will be lost on either side, and the game will stall. As it should.

    Eventually, the camping team will run out of turf and lose the game. Simple as that. It's also worth noting there will be a much better AFK-kick system as well, solving that part of the problem.

    Hope this helped.
     
    Posted Oct 5, 2020
    MysticMaster779 and landay like this.
  6. I mean, if you honestly somehow find a way to have the server check if a team is camping, then that would be some very advanced coding. I mean, you would have to have a system that would monitor how players are playing in the game in order for that to work... unless I'm misunderstanding something?

    I think it would just be better if the idea that if a team is losing, and the game runs out of time, then the winning team wins instead of the teams being tied was implemented. Other Turf War players thought of the same idea as this before. It makes absolutely no sense that it ends in a tie in the first place.

    Even if that idea doesn't get implemented, we've brought up several solutions to Gyro himself that seems far easier to implement than monitoring camping. These ideas included withering/hunger effect while staying inside the base after a certain amount of time.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 6, 2020,
    Last edited Oct 6, 2020
    Fusafez likes this.
  7. Not really that advanced, but yes a system to check if they're camping.

    No, because here's how that would play out.

    Team 1: Gets 70% of the turf
    Team 2: Tries to get turf back
    Team 1: Hides in base and camps, wins by default, because team 2 CAN'T get turf back due to camping.

    While it would stop ties from forming, it would not stop camping whatsoever, and encourage it, just in the opposite direction we currently have it.

    Looked into those solutions too, but they're not very clean. You see, you should be able to stay in your base and fire arrows from there. The maps and game are designed around being able to do that. That's why there's cover in the first place. The issue comes where you purposefully do not fight at all and so the game stalls.

    If you deal damage for people staying in their base, you get rid of that strategy by forcing them out, and that directly prohibits firing arrows from your base as a playstyle. It would also make coming "back" incredibly hard, as you HAVE to go out and expose yourself fully, and don't have the choice to use strategy to decide when you want to go out, or use the cover provided to you to strategically gain back turf.

    The objective shouldn't be "get them out of their base," it should be "get them to fight." When you change the objective, your solution changes too.
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
    MysticMaster779 and JetStarglaze like this.
  8. I disagree. No one does this- unless they're losing. The only campers I've ever run into have been in the very last stages of the game, maybe with 5 turf lines left, never more than a third. It simply doesn't make sense that a winning team would camp, especially if they are winning. People wouldn't want the game to win by default- it takes forever to make a game run out of time. Every combat time (there are ten of these before the timer runs out) is 90 seconds
    and every build time (there are also 10 of these) is 30 seconds. That makes the game a total of 20 minutes, and no one (especially a team that is already winning) would want to wait this out if they are already winning.

    Another point is that no team of random people (lets assume that you're not in a party and playing with Randoms) is going to stop playing completely. In my years of playing Turf Wars, I have never met a team of people where EVERYONE would stop playing. The closest to this that happens is most of the team quits midway through the game and the remaining one or two players either are AFK already, or camp for fear of losing.

    That's what we're saying. We're addressing the issue that many players simply won't even try to come out, and purposely won't fight. We have no issue with people who shoot from their base. As you said, and are correct- the issue becomes that they won't play at all.

    I've brought up before and I'll add it again here, is effects for the players in their OWN base. @Sunkeiss brought up the wither or hunger effect. This is the link to my original idea, and you can read more on that HERE.

    Basically, it's the same idea that @Tricorder had, used in a different way.
    A system is implemented that checks the BASE ever (x) seconds. If a player is in the base longer than these (x) seconds, they start to take damage. If they die to this damage, the turf is affected, giving turf to the opposite team. Once they die, or they step onto the turf, the timer is reset. (NOTE the timer does NOT reset if the bow is drawn back- people can camp inside the base and simply fire at the ceiling to reset the timer. I've seen this happen- and it also resets the AFK timer.)
    Why this would work: Taking damage would 1) Give the camper or the campers team time to get kills, therefore taking back turf in between the intervals of the camper dying and losing turf. 2) This would motivate whoever is taking damage to enter the playing field and actually play- sine dying inside the base causes their team to lose turf.
    3) even if all they are doing is stepping on the turf and retreating back into the base to reset the timer, that still gives the other team time to shoot them.

    You can read about the idea in more detail in the thread I linked above. Thanks!
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
    Fusafez likes this.
  9. I think you missed the point. My example wasn't stating what currently happens, it's stating what would. If you can win the game by doing nothing and hiding, because you have more turf than the other team & there is no incentive to fight, you can just do that. In theory, if you got one or two kills and your entire team hid in your base, you could with with a lead of like 4 turf on the other team.

    That's what my statement was trying to say there. Whether or not someone ends up game stalling is dependent on the group of players, sure, but if it can happen currently with losing teams I don't see why it couldn't with winning teams eager to keep their lead against a fierce opponent. All of this is to say that I simply don't believe rewarding the team with the most points at the end of the time is the "best" solution to the problem of game stalling. Because, yes, they won't tie, but they can continue to stall games up to 20 minutes with no consequence to their turf.

    Your proposed solution directly prohibits people from shooting from their base.

    As previously mentioned, I don't like this mechanic as it forces people out of their base when that isn't what the goal should be, and isn't how the game is naturally played. They should have the option of firing arrows from within their base- as long as they are firing arrows and engaging with the enemy. Now, from what I understand gyro has a good way to determine whether or not someone is fighting or simply launching arrows in the air or drawing their bow, so that shouldn't be a problem.

    At the end of the day, it boils down to preference on how to solve the camping issue. My thought with the original idea is to force people to fight, while not forcing the way in which they do so. And that's what my idea emphasizes and allows for. I don't think dealing damage would be all that bad, but I don't think it's the most efficient way to do things either, for the reasons above.
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020,
    Last edited Oct 6, 2020
    MysticMaster779 likes this.
  10. Yes, thank you for clarifying, but that's what makes what @TheArrow'sShadow said stand:

    I agree that this doesn't happen NOW but I also don't think it would happen even if it was implemented. The assumption of players getting about 4 kills and having a lead, then hiding in their bases for the rest of the game is highly unlikely, as it would be boring and pointless to play. Sure, there will be THOSE people, but there aren't a ton of solutions to accommodate every single play style and person. Plus, who would rather wait for 15-20 minutes when you can actually play the game and have fun? It doesn't make sense.

    No, it doesn't. Arrow said that there would be a timer before people started taking damage, or get the effect. It doesn't happen right away, which allows players to be able to shoot from their base. Plus, players should only shoot from their base if they have little to no turf left. That's what the wool is for, building shelter on the turf. If you're spending the ENTIRE game in your base, what's the point of the game?

    I strongly disagree with this. The point of the game is to shoot the other players in order to gain turf. The whole premise of the game is building forts and shooting the other team. How are you supposed to build with wool inside the base? What’s the point? Why even bother giving us wool blocks? If you’re shooting from your base the entire time- that is definitely not the natural way to play the game. It sounds as if you’ve never played Turf Wars and if so, rarely at all. I feel like your ideas/proposals are attempting to fix a situation that you’ve never experienced before, and I suggest you play a bit of the game yourself in order to understand the issue.

    In my personal opinion, your idea seems far from efficient, as it does anything BUT solve the issue of players camping inside the bases. Our proposals do not force people to fight in a certain play style at all? However, your proposal does force players to play a certain way. Here’s the reason why: The more the enemy team stays in their base, the more they lose turf right? Their turf will be shrinking anyway- so they will be even MORE motivated to stay inside their bases. This forces the playstyle of hiding- which isn't the point of the game.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 6, 2020
  11. I one hundred percent agree. Turf wars is one of my favourite games on Mineplex, and I wouldn't want to see it get ruined.
     
    Posted Oct 20, 2020
    TheArrow'sShadow likes this.
  12. Hello ^-^

    I heard a friend talking about her friend posting something, and so I was curious and read it. And my first reaction was : it's not good to be stuck into the past.

    The point of the update, like always, is to find the best compromise with what all players say. That means mixed together ideas, bad reviews, suggestions, experiences, so a game can be updated in order to see players having more fun. As far as I played with the update, I didn't find anymore issue with hiding/camping, every game is now way more fun in term of action, everyone is involved. Because players knowing that they can lose if they camp, make them react and try to go ahead and act, like @Fallen said with letting them freedom to choose their ideal positions from base and anywhere. Players really have to not act at all and camp in order to lose turf.

    After, don't forget it's also a first shot for the anti-camp algorithm, but it's already something awesome to have now. Many players complained about others being afk or hiding and wasting time, now something got brought. All we have to do now is polish the algorithm if needed.

    If someone is really trying to make lose the game on purpose by camping, I would personally consider this as Gameplay Trolling, as it ruins the pleasure of their teammates. But as far as I've seen in hundred games since update got set, I never saw that happen.

    About the short invincibility time, many players are happy with this, since they let them time to analyse the field and what's going on.

    And also, no one want to see Turf Wars, or every other games in Mineplex, ruined. That's why together, and even if there are mistakes coming from human nature, we try our best, together, to bring solutions and go forward ^-^
     
    Posted Oct 23, 2020
  13. That happened to me at one point. I was still trying to figure out how to use my infiltrator kit properly and it said my team lost turf due to camping. I was out fighting, but I guess there are still some kinks to work out. =/
     
    Posted Oct 23, 2020
  14. This is because you were most likely not using a bow to shoot the user and were instead using your sword only, and so the server recognized it as camping. That being said, I will forward this so that it can be further looked into and perhaps improved in the future.
     
    Posted Oct 23, 2020
    MysticMaster779 likes this.
  15. Thanks for the information!
     
    Posted Oct 23, 2020
    Fallen likes this.

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