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Master Builders - Voting for Themes and More

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by xSebbie, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. Heyyo everyone~

    I wouldn't consider myself an avid Master Builder player; however, I do play a lot with friends and when I want to relax and build. There has always been one thing that has pushed me away from playing consistently, and that’s the lack of a voting system within the game. There have been several discussions in the past which have brought up the topic of voting within Master Builders, and I wish to further elaborate on ideas addressed in those threads as well as add why I think it would be beneficial for Master Builders.

    One of such threads was created by @ChrissyTheFish but, after much discussion, the idea was eventually denied by Game Insights.

    Hey everybody!

    So I've recently gotten into Master Builders. But one thing that I think could really improve the game is if we implemented a voting system to vote for the theme. You may be thinking that this is "ripping off" other servers, but I think it's something that could actually benefit this game a lot; especially if we do it in a unique way. I like being able to vote for the team because I get a say in what I'm building. This change could also draw more people to Master Builders, because they'll actually get to build what they like, rather than building a random theme every time.

    Here's how it could work:

    It could work like voting for a map, so it's optional. Before the game starts (maybe right after the map is chosen) for 10 seconds, players can right-click a book in their inventory to vote for a theme. There will be five themes to choose from, and the theme selection will be randomized. Just an idea: the theme selection could look like the "Titles" book that you have in the lobby.

    To vote for a theme, you click on the red minus sign to the left of the theme, which will turn it into a green check. Of course, you can change your vote after voting.

    Do you guys think it would be a good idea to allow players to see how many votes each theme has? What do you guys think of this idea? I think it would draw a lot more people to this game.


    A voting system for Master Builders is something I completely agree with; however, others had varying different opinions on the idea. In order to address these concerns, all the idea really needs is some simple changes and a few explanations.

    Overall, the majority of the concerns centered around the fact that a voting system would remove the creative and spontaneous aspects of the game. While I personally think the negative effects it would have on the game would be minimal, which I address later in this thread, I still have an idea to fix it for all players.

    This fix is simple. Within the voting category, add a “random” option. For example, there would be five total options to vote for. Four of which would be actual themes, and the fifth would be titled “Random” and, if chosen, would randomly select a theme from the entire theme pool. This way, if the majority of people really want it to be like how it is currently, they totally have the option of keeping it that way.

    Now let's explain why there would be little to no negative effect on the game if this were to be added by directly addressing some of the most popular criticisms.

    Loofii's concerns:
    "While I can see why the idea of voting for the Master Builders theme is appealing, I don't think it would be a good implementation to the game. Part of the challenge of Master Builders is to figure out creative yet quick ways to build themes that are sometimes quite complex! I feel like Kristo is right, and if Master Builders theme voting was implemented, it would reduce the challenge of the game because players would consistently vote for the themes that they feel like they can build "better," reducing both the difficulty and the creativity of the game. Further, a lot of themes would be repeated as players would vote for those same themes that they feel they have the best ability to make and thus win. As an active Master Builders player, I like the mystery and challenge of a theme that I have no control over. It's an interesting idea, but overall it is a -1 from me."

    xUmbreon's concerns:
    "I personally disagree with this. I play a lot of Master Builders and part of why I love it so much is the randomness of the themes. It adds a challenging aspect to the game that I really enjoy. Yeah, I can see why some people might want to vote for a theme, but personally I’d rather just keep it as it is. Plus, I do believe this has already been denied by Game Insights (don’t quote me on that, though). Nice idea, but unfortunately I disagree. -1"

    Firstly, the group of themes that are being voted on is still going to be random. This way, players would still get that randomness they enjoy while also having a bit of a say in what they want to build. Thus, they will be more motivated to stay in the lobby and keep building, and fewer players would become frustrated with the game and just leave when a theme nobody likes is given.

    The next comment I am addressing is that players would vote for easier builds. The difficulty of a theme is subjective to each player's building style, ability, etc. For example, one player might find a building theme easy while another finds it challenging. Thus, the effect that this would have on the game's difficulty would be just as minimal as if the themes were random.

    Finally, there were some concerns expressed under Chrissy's thread that a voting system would add too much time to the game and take away the challenge of having to think of a good build idea quickly. With a voting system in place, there would be some time added to vote but not nearly enough for a player to come up with an idea for each possible theme. Even if the said player thinks of an idea for the theme that ends up being chosen, the maximum time added because of that would only be a few seconds.

    Alright, now that we have gotten that out of the way, if a voting system were to be implemented, there would be another issue; the Master Builders theme pool. The theme pool needs to be larger to ensure players get a whole new unique set of themes each round. If there is not one already, there should be a form for ideas of themes that the Game Insights team can look through for ideas and inspiration for new themes in order to make the process of broadening the theme pool easier.

    Overall, I believe that this implementation would really help community interest and growth within the game. I would love to hear everyone's ideas and feedback! Thanks so much for reading this far.
    Posted Jul 25, 2020
  2. period. I love this idea, especially the way you explained it. I think by directly addressing the previous concerns it allows for a new type of discussion and reevaluation of a great and highly liked idea. Personally, I would love to have this in the game just to add a more player-based experience. I would 100% play Master Builders more if there was a voting system. Your grammar and sentence structure is also amazing, who's your editor? so cute. +1
    Posted Jul 25, 2020
  3. I definitely have mixed feelings about this idea. Though I agree with the majority of your points, like others criticized before it could take away some of the spontaneous aspects of Master Builders, which is why the game is so fun. However, you did mention solutions to this problem and addressed every issue that was mentioned the last time this idea was suggested, all of which make sense for the game. I think some more concerns people may have over this idea are as follows:

    1. The pool for voting. Like you said, the pool for builds must be much larger, and it is hard to come up with unique theme ideas for Master Builders. I like how you suggested a form be added for Game Insights to suggest new ideas, but it is still an issue to come up with a ton of new ideas for this concept to work.

    2. Manipulation of this concept. Some players play Master Builders while in parties, and if everyone has the same 5 ideas that they are voting on, players in parties could simply just all vote on one theme they're all good at and make it more unfair for other players. Though this is unlikely to happen, it still could affect gameplay, especially if nobody votes for the "random" option. And, as you said, building is subjective, but some players are better than some builds than others, so voting would take away some of the skill involved to play the game.

    3. The creativity aspect of the game. Using voting would take away some of that creativeness, no matter what situation this idea could be implemented in. If players were able to pre-determine what they were going to build, they could come up with ideas and even look up different builds to get ideas. The concept of Master Builders is to already have that creativity on your own, and being able to vote and manipulate what you are going to build could impact how the game works.

    Though I like your idea, I think it would need more work and configuration to actually be implemented into the game. My suggestion for this is to maybe make some sort of the original idea into an achievement kit, perhaps for those who have achieved the "Master Builder" achievement? That way, more experienced players can use the voting system and it would prevent some issues with manipulation of the game like what was forementioned.

    Another suggestion I have is to have different voting options for every player, but keep some options under an umbrella option. For example, if two options were "treehouse" and "helicopter", then if the player were to pick "treehouse" it would be under an umbrella theme of "nature", and "helicopter" would be under the umbrella theme of "city". This way, if a player picked either option, it would then pick a random option under one of the umbrella themes that got picked the most. So if most people voted for a "city" theme under one of the more specific builds, then the game would randomly pick a theme under "city", making it still randomized but also still in slight control of the players. Also, it would prevent any tying of the themes, and keep the creativity aspect of the game in place.

    Overall, nice idea! I would make some alterations myself and change a lot of things with the original idea, but the concept is there and I think this could be implemented someday. I would love to see some updates or feedback from other players on this idea as well!
    Posted Jul 26, 2020
    xSebbie likes this.
  4. While this does seem like an issue, it is bound to happen in any game that involves voting. However, if those party members all voted for a theme and they have the majority then I do feel as though they have the right to have that theme since they are indeed the majority in that specific server. For example, if a huge party wanted a certain map on survival games, they could manipulate the votes for that map, which changes the whole game. The main idea for voting is that so a larger amount of people are enjoying what they are building. I personally think to have a theme that the majority of the lobby actually wants to build, whether players are in a party or not, is really important. As for the "random" vote, it is essentially there so that players who still want that aspect of the game can keep it.
    I addressed this in my post. Again, the way I see the voting system implemented, the votes would be final right before the allotted 5 minutes is given; therefore, the chances of pre-determining every build is almost zero. I would also like to add if they did somehow think of a build for the theme that got chosen, it is most likely that their idea of a build would not change within a few seconds, so I see this issue as having almost no game impact. Especially, if they are enjoying the theme they are choosing.

    As for the two other ideas you gave, I personally don't see any way for an achievement kit to be added to Master builder, but the "umbrella voting system" is definitely interesting. Personally, I wouldn't mind this; however, I don't really understand how it would be different from just regular voting. It would be more difficult to broaden the theme pool for specific categories rather than just voting for a set theme.

    I made this discussion for new ideas and feedback, so I'm happy to see all your alterations! I think we both can agree on a more diverse theme pool with the communities input. Thank you!
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jul 26, 2020
    RavenPaw9 likes this.
  5. I've said before "I do not think voting for a theme should be implemented because it just does not seem necessary. I like being able to go into a game of build battle and have themes randomly selected that might be more difficult for me because it's better to practice these difficult themes and sometimes I end up doing really well on a theme I thought I'd be horrible at. I like how the theme is just randomly selected because if the theme was based on voting like most servers then I'll always end up building easy themes that people choose. Nice idea but it is just not for me. Sorry. -1". Again, I disagree with this idea. A random vote option would not be a solution at all because a random vote is basically the same as not voting at all. You mentioned that people won't get frustrated and leave, I've played thousands of master builder games and people rarely leave because of the theme. If they add a voting system, I feel like players will get more frustrated if the theme that they voted for, doesn't get picked to be the theme of the game. I don't like the idea of adding a voting system for Master Builders because I like the randomness of being able to build whatever random theme gets picked. I play Master Builders to improve as a builder and if I am always building easy themes then I won't improve. I agree that the word pool should be larger but I don't think a voting system is for me. -1
    Posted Jul 26, 2020
    Jaek and xSebbie like this.
  6. I understand where you're coming from, but I do believe the game needs some sort of change, whether it is the voting system or something else entirely. The voting system, to me, is the most ethical since it will cater to what players want to build. As for the "random" vote, it is an option for players like you, who want that spontaneous aspect. It isn't a throwaway vote, and if people want to play the game is that style, then they totally can!
    Let me preface this first, the themes that will be voted on will still be completely random. It will be a selective choice (of random themes) that will allow the player to have more of an option of what they want to build. "Easy themes" are something I mentioned in my main thread; they're subjective. Therefore, with a voting system and an increased theme pool, you would get different themes for every game.

    Thank you for all your feedback, if possible, I would like to hear more ideas in the future!
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jul 26, 2020
  7. period go off sis
    Posted Jul 26, 2020
    mxry and xSebbie like this.
  8. dang seb, this is very well written! i definitely feel that a re-evaluation of this idea was necessary in order to be considerable by administration. with this in mind, your detailed explanation of this simple addition would 100% enhance the overall building aspect of the game. i believe that giving players the ability to select which option most accurately fits their preference would make this game that much more enjoyable to its player base. a simple, yet necessary idea... +1 from me!

    looga pooga would be proud
    Posted Jul 26, 2020
    mxry and xSebbie like this.
  9. Hey there!

    I completely agree with this idea! I think the organization and planning put into this thread is phenomenal, the way you directly address the points of the opposing side. I understand GI's concern with taking away the randomness of the game, but adding a new pool of more random words would combat this. Additionally, instead of just removing the unwanted words, why not also give player's a choice? The only problem I'd see is inflation of words, as many new ones would have to be added upon implementation, but I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. I believe you covered all these points, and I agree with your statements. The game would be much more exciting and less players would leave after seeing a bad theme pop up on their screen. Thanks for the suggestion! +1
    Posted Jul 27, 2020
    xSebbie likes this.
  10. Hey xSebbie!
    I definitely love your idea. It's something that should be really considered as I believe it would overall benefit the game as a whole. As a player who has building experience and also has played master builders, it'd be great to see something like this implemented. It would make the voting a bit more randomized but at the same time giving the players a choice of what they actually want to build. Making them actually have fun while building and have a voice in what they might have a chance of building. Overall, this is a very good idea and deserves to be considered.
    Good luck with your suggestion :D
    Posted Jul 28, 2020
    Cowie and xSebbie like this.
  11. After hearing your idea, I think this could work. I originally stated that this wouldn't be a good idea due to the spontaneity of themes making the game as fun as it is, but your idea definitely has potential. Adding a "random" option to the voting list not only keeps the theme relatively random, it also gives players the chance to vote for a theme that they want. You addressed the concerns really well and I like what you had to say on the entire topic. I also agree 100% that the theme pool should be expanded; I don't know if anything like that is in the works but making the pool bigger would make the voting much more random. I agree with this idea and hopefully we can see a change like it soon. +1
    Posted Jul 28, 2020
    xSebbie likes this.
  12. I love this idea. I think that master builders needs a change to add more intrigue into the game, which is something that has been lacking in my opinion. I love the option to vote for a theme, especially since I always end up leaving when I get a really bad theme. I really like how you've addressed the criticisms of the previous ideas and I commend you for it. Thank you for this, I really hope this is implemented since Master Builders needs something to restore its glory.
    Posted Jul 29, 2020
    xSebbie likes this.
  13. Having the theme be voted upon would lessen the number of people leaving after the theme is announced because, simply, they don't like the theme (I know that I'm guilty of this too), on the flip-side it may just vex people if their theme isn't picked and larger parties would be able to dictate the theme and outweigh the votes of the other players in the lobby. Having the random option would be a good way to stop people always voting for the 'easy' builds, however I highly doubt many people will vote random over a theme that's objectively easier. there are going to be complaints regardless of whichever direction it goes. I'm still very torn on the matter personally but you put forward a good argument.

    The word list is rather extensive (I've seen the Word list doc in the GI discord), however there are certainly themes that don't crop up anywhere near as much as others. Adding new words is never a bad thing as long as the words added encouraged creativity and variation and doesn't always pigeonhole the player. Sometimes a specific theme, say, 'snowman', is fun but it's also nice to have a more open theme such as 'Spring'.
    Posted Jul 29, 2020
    xSebbie likes this.
  14. I must firstly congratulate you on the great thread you managed to write with extensive amount of detail, and secondly say that I really agree on having a voting system on Master Builders. I really like playing the game from time to time just for fun, although I am very bad with blocks and building in general and don't wanna fail horribly, so I see this as a chance for players to pick a theme they feel comfortable with. The opportunity of still having a random theme to be generated is also granted with the system you suggested, and it would be great if we're talking about a party with a lot of members where people all agree on voting for that.

    I support this a lot and don't see many issues with it. Sure, it will be slightly difficult to get used to this new system considering the game's been like this for years now, but I can see it will be a beneficial and I would like to see a change after all this time. +1
    Posted Jul 29, 2020
    xSebbie likes this.

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