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Implemented Make Cross Teaming in 2 Team Games Bannable

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by Paladise, Sep 14, 2020.

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  1. This is a continuation to this thread.

    TO PREVENT CONFUSION: This thread is talking about gamemodes that have a total of 2 teams like Turf Wars, Death Tag, Champions, etc NOT SSM teams or anything like that.

    Currently, the rules for teaming / cross teaming are as follows:

    This means that none of the rules above apply for gamemodes that have 2 teams. I propose making cross-teaming in 2-team games punishable. It would be much more uniform if every single gamemode would have some variation of teaming bannable since it clearly gives an unfair advantage. In other cases, it will make the game much more enjoyable. Let's take Champions Domination for an example. It's a 5 v 5, but on one of the teams 1 of the players is teaming. In my eyes, it is stat boosting as that player won't be helping their team at all. And while they are not being killed either, they aren't getting emeralds, capturing points, getting kills, getting assists, etc. Making cross teaming bannable will inform these players that it isn't fair to truce, and in the process will make the teams much more balanced, and the game will be much more enjoyable for the rest of the players. Another example is Death Tag, where many players purposely let their friends pass by them instead of killing them which is the point of chasers. Death Tag relies on the chasers team to be coordinated and working together, and currently games are long and boring. I have proposed many changes to combat this within the GI discord, but the general consensus is that a rule change is the best course of action.

    The only thing confusing is that in certain gamemodes cross teaming is bannable while in other it is. I have never seen any questions to pertaining what is cross teaming besides what the maximum team amount is, something which is not applicable in this situation since there is only two teams.

    Staff often express judgement and leniency when punishing players. Quite frankly it is not that hard to determine whether something is intentional or not. @mab8400 goes further in depth stating:

    "Intention is pretty obvious a lot of the time. This is a huge thing that people like to go into denial for because they want to defend and hold onto this rule so they can get easy wins or loophole the game-play trolling rule. In one game which I don't know anything about, called Block Hunt, a lot of hunters will purposely help the hider team by defending, blowing up TNT paths (ladders, parkour, trees, etc) and without being afk, will INTENTIONALLY let the time run out so that their friends/the other team wins. How do I know they are doing that intentionally? Maybe because they are blowing kisses next to a chicken in a tree and shifting in place. But I guess the rules think that "oh I didn't see that player! I thought that was a normal NPC in a spot impossible for any normal mob to get to!" No. Logic=False. In Champions, I played for about 2 weeks straight and I saw what seemed to be a corrupt gamemode full of people who literally do not fight at all and just shift next to their friends while they watch you get 2v1ed. If intention is questionable in a 2 team game, why would it be any different in a solo gamemode? With the logic based on the rules, 2 people fighting one person in a game of SG is considered teaming. Where is the intent there though? What if they "just happen" to not see eachother and also attack the same person, while simultaneously not hitting eachother the entirety of the time? There is no intent there right? No. It's clear what is happening based on this thing called logic. Very very important variable in any situation. The same exact reasoning should be used in any single gamemode. However, this doesn't mean that a player who is afk or coincidentally attacks the same player should just be banned instantly. Extensive footage or recording of gameplay should be collected in order to actually observe what's happening."

    After further conversing with RC about why the previous thread was denied, I received this reply:

    This rule change is going to benefit every player who does not truce, both through making the teams actually fair and making the gameplay much more exciting. I'm not hindering myself if I get teammates to start helping in a game. In Death Tag, instead of having to chase a runner by myself when they have Speed I and weapons that deal a fair amount more knockback, I can now corner players. Some other examples from the previous thread:

    "Playing champs without a party is bad enough getting clapped in a 3v5 fighting 5 skilled players, but its worse when people on your team don't help you fight. Many times I see players on opposite teams just chilling out or fist 1v1ing."

    "Agreed, I tend to get really aggravated when your team isn't helping you and teaming with the other team. The whole point is that your team works together to go against the other team. This rule would make it helpful for others that have no help from there teammate and actually put up a challenge."

    The fact that some situations may fall under Gameplay Trolling shouldn't be a reason for rejecting this thread because that only applies in a limited amount of cases. The far majority will be unresolved and rampant "stat-boosting" and boring gameplay will continue to thrive. Additionally, the fact that it may be hard to judge shouldn't be a reason to reject. Many other offenses require a fair amount of evidence of judgment before resulting in a punishment. If it's to hard to determine whether someone is intentionally teaming, leniency should be exercised and perhaps they can give an in-game warning (I believe they do that for Gameplay offenses?).

    This rule could also allow for further changes that will make games much more fun like shown in this thread.


    As seen in the many posts below, the definition of teaming should be more concrete and be applied in more scenarios where it currently isn't punishable.

    Feel free to write any feedback!
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2020,
    Last edited Sep 14, 2020
    Susie, mab8400, Xukuwu and 2 others like this.
  2. What's poppin!

    This actually is a rule that is in place. However this is a little weird. Lets say your in a Survival Games with teams and you see 3 people teaming. That is punishable because it's a team of 3 against a team of 2. However if lets say Player A's teammate died and found another player without a teammate they could team because it would still be a 2v2.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2020
  3. I'm talking about 2 team gamemodes (not SSM teams, SSG teams, Skywars Teams). But this further illustrates how confusing the rules currently are, as many players think that teaming is bannable in all gamemodes, but it isn't. Making the rules more uniform will definitely help players since it seems intuitive that teaming should be bannable in all gamemodes.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 14, 2020,
    Last edited Sep 14, 2020
    Susie likes this.
  4. I actually agree, some of the rules can be pretty vague at face value, and you have to come up with certain scenarios in your head to really understand some of them. I actually don't necessarily recommend changing the rules, just maybe elaborating on some of them, and giving more vast descriptive detail and even certain situations in which a certain rule would apply to.

    I like your original post though, I think it was a great concept and a great idea.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2020
    Paladise likes this.
  5. It is though. What your thinking of is a version of the Cross Teaming rule.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2020
  6. I 100% agree. Teaming always creates an unbalanced and unfair game, no matter which game it takes place in. Getting 3 v 1'd in solo SG is just as game ruining as getting 3 v 1'd in Bacon Brawl.

    "It's not planned because cross teaming in a 2 team game can never benefit yourself really, since you only hinder yourself."​

    Similarly, teaming in a solo SG can often not benefit yourself, since if all goes well and you and the people you are teaming with are the last ones, you're inevitably going to have to fight it out and there's a chance you won't win. That's the same in other solo games such as Bacon Brawl. So why would that point only justify teaming in BB being fine, but not solo SG?

    It's also not exactly about "benefiting yourself" it's about ruining the game for everyone else. If I body block my friend as a chaser in DT, I am ruining the game for the other humans, as they have less/no chance of winning the game. I am also ruining it for the other chasers, as I am preventing them from killing that specific human (which is their objective).

    The purpose of teaming isn't solely to give yourself a better chance of winning. It can also be to help other people win or prevent other people from winning/having a fair game. While yes, a few of these things do come under Gameplay Trolling, a lot don't. Let's go back to that 3 v 1 in Bacon Brawl that I mentioned. This was a real game that I spectated. 3 or 4 people (hard to tell) were teaming the whole game, standing next to each other and not hitting, ganging up on other people - y'know, the tell-tale signs of teaming. Nothing of what they were doing is considered Gameplay Trolling - they weren't preventing teammates from succeeding (it's a solo gamemode), they didn't stall the game (they fought each other once they were the only ones left), they weren't team killing (once again, it's a solo gamemode). Therefore, nothing that these people were doing was punishable. And yet they were ruining the game for everyone else there - winning a 3 v 1 in Bacon Brawl is nigh impossible. There was almost no chance of anyone else winning that game because these people had an indomitable advantage. In that scenario, they should be able to be banned for teaming. It doesn't matter if individually, they're not particularly benefiting themselves (as only one of them could win), what matters is together, they ruined the game for the other 13 people in that game.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2020
  7. Hey there!

    After reading through this I can say that I cannot agree more! I do think it would not be fair to be solo queuing for lets say, Turf Wars and you end up in a game with a bunch of people that are all friends and they are all cross teaming. It would be the absolute worst if the team you are on just decides to throw and let the other team win giving you a loss with pretty much no chance of avoiding it. It just is not right. There are dozens of more examples or situations that I can give that have happened or probably will happen one day. Wonderful idea! Hope this gets changed +1
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2020
  8. too bad when i mentioned this in threads I made it was ignored and seen as a joke. i wonder what caused people to be so agreeable now? I literally made several posts on why block hunt is such an easy game to win as a hider because you can just have friends steal the hunter queue and be friendly the entire game, which means you can't lose. Essentially stat boosting that isn't against the rules; since there are so many loopholes, like Xukuwu said, you can bypass the teaming rule in solo games by avoiding each other and putting a big effort into making it look like you aren't teaming, kill all other players, and then throw the game by "accidentally jumping off a cliff" or "accidentally dropping a sword or throwing tnt on your feet" for whoever you want to boost/get wins. This happens all the time in SG, Bacon Brawl, Skywars, and Super Spleef. Just way too easy to bypass.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2020
  9. Hello again!

    Thank you for the amount of effort that you have been putting in these threads!

    However, I have rechecked with Toki once again and she has confirmed that such a change will not be happening.

    Given this, I will be marking this thread as Not Planned as well as locking it.

    Thanks again for sharing.

    Thread Locked >> Idea Not Planned
     
    Posted Sep 22, 2020
    Anna-Marie and WinteryOsprey38 like this.
  10. Hey again!

    As I mentioned on the other thread you had about this, there's been an update to this proposed idea. RC rediscussed over this idea recently and have decided to now make hindering your team in 2 team games in anyway punishable.

    With this in mind, I will be remarking this thread with the "Implemented" tag as well as lock this thread.

    Thanks again.

    Thread Locked >> Idea Implemented
     
    Posted Oct 22, 2020
    Anna-Marie likes this.
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