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Luck-Based Dragons Maps

Discussion in 'Dragons' started by nico, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. Hola!

    This thread will be discussing Dragons maps that are, for the most part, luck based. These maps include Balloon Town, Deadly Ruins, Eden, and Dragon's Eggs (there are more, I just did not feel the need to include them). For those who are not familiar with Dragons maps, here are some screenshots:

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    If you look at the maps, you notice two very noticeable similarities, the fact that there are different islands and that these islands vary in size (most importantly: height). While these two things are not necessarily problems on their own, they are very large problems on these maps due to the inaccessibility of the islands after the bridges are destroyed. Once these bridges are destroyed, the game is pretty much decided based on how many players are on each island/a certain island. The lower islands are typically, much smaller and get destroyed a lot faster because of their size comparative to the other islands. The people on the higher islands will have a better chance of winning because their island gets destroyed slower. This, however, does not mean that mean that going to the lower island is always a bad choice. If more people are on the larger island, it will get destroyed faster because more dragons will target the people on that island rather than the fewer amount of people on the smaller island. The problem with this is that there is no way to know how the end game of these maps will work out so you have to make many choices that can result in a negative outcome even if you make the safest move. This makes the lack of accessibility to switch islands late game very noticeable as if you end up having more people on your island in the end game, you will be at a disadvantage and there is nothing you can do about it. Another problem is that if you are on an island with more people and you are in the position to switch late game, you will most likely still be at a disadvantage because you are bring one more person to the new side and leaving one less person to the old side. This makes the game more about luck than skill.

    In conclusion: Please stop making maps like this and add more ways to get to the different levels of each island (in Balloon Town's case, just remove it because the map is truly boring due to its unoriginal aesthetic and large islands causing extremely long gameplay even with inexperienced players.
     
    Posted Sep 30, 2020
    SoulGhoul, Grant138, Xukuwu and 2 others like this.
  2. +1
     
    Posted Sep 30, 2020
    nico likes this.
  3. More islands is usually what I think of as a good Dragons map, less islands with large map areas (Island, Hollow Rock, etc) are not great maps because they take way too long to be destroyed (i've been in a game that lasted over 20 minutes on Hollow Rock). Eden is actual one of my favorites because of the good number of islands to choose from. That's where the coward kit comes handy; if an island is higher up or less destroyed, it can be a good strategy to leap over there rather than wait it out. There is some level of risk involved; but it requires timing and a good sense of your surroundings. In fact I would argue that more islands can potentially involve more strategy than luck. One of the most common strategies I use with these types of maps (but mostly every map when there are separated chunks) is to view the popularity density of each island/broken off area. If there are 5 people on 1 island and 2 on the other, I will be more likely to make a decision on the area with less people because the dragons will have less of a chance to target that group. Not only that, but if there are many players using the Pyromancer kit, I might stay near them since they could target a certain island (and I wouldn't want to be on that one). The bridges are there so you can access other islands in the early game, so that you can make a decision based on your surroundings (like the things I said above) which can help later. I think that it would definitely be helpful to maybe add more bridges (like for different levels) so they don't just instantly get destroyed as the game starts. Based on my experience, the most luck based part of the game is at the end, where the size of your chunk or the amount of targeting from the dragons is most influential (which you can't necessarily control; you can't choose where the dragons go or be able to judge how far you can leap if there aren't many blocks left to stand on). All in all, it is good that you pointed out the importance of maps in Dragons because it is probably the sole factor in how a game can be played. I'll have to somewhat disagree though. I think this would be an issue if the islands were very far from each other or were too high in quantity.


    Forgot to mention this; I do think that this is a bigger problem for people who don't use the coward kit, because they have no way to get back up. (months ago I thought of making a good balancing suggestion to buff the other kits but will most likely not be suggesting anything due to the fact that anything I specifically suggest is rejected)
     
    Posted Oct 1, 2020,
    Last edited Oct 1, 2020
  4. I definitely agree! Maps such as Island, Sky Village, Caribbean Islands, and Hollow Rock are way too large and the games take too long. This, however, is just my opinion because many of my friends in the dragons community do like some of these maps so it is just more of a playstyle type of thing.

    I have been in countless situations (specifically on Deadly Ruins and Dragon's Eggs) where I was not able to switch islands with my leap due to the difference in heights between islands.

    This post is regarding the luck of the map late game. During the late game, it is very unlikely that there will be a pyrotechnic (correct spelling of the kit) alive, especially if it is in a Mixed Arcade lobby. On top of that, there will rarely every be more than 5 people alive late game so what you're saying there is really irrelevant as switch islands early game is not really going to affect the late game much because of the luck involved :)

    This is literally what I explained in my post with evidence and detailed explanation.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 1, 2020
    Xukuwu likes this.
  5. I definitely would agree that a map like Eden should have it's islands closer in height (but not exactly the same). So what you are saying is true. However, having each chunk of island exactly the same for 100% of every game is not doable so there is not a real solution for that. The game itself is based on luck most of the time unless you are quick to realize surroundings. Any map on any instance is probably not going to have the exact same height differences unless they are completely flat, like Cutting Board or Docks (which are some of my lesser favored maps). They; in my opinion, do not promote a very fun game because it is even more luck based due to their small, flat, and thin layered dynamic. The games on those maps go wayyy to quickly.

    "I have been in countless situations (specifically on Deadly Ruins and Dragon's Eggs) where I was not able to switch islands with my leap due to the difference in heights between islands." <-- Which is why I explained the method of both population density and higher islands; it's possible you might not be making the decision fast enough in certain games. But that's not always the fault of the player since a dragon's aggression to attack a player/their island is randomized. Sometimes it happens to me as well.

    "On top of that, there will rarely every be more than 5 people alive late game so what you're saying there is really irrelevant as switch islands early game is not really going to affect the late game much because of the luck involved" <-- My explanation was simply an example. 5 was a random number I put to contrast one island to the other. There could be 3 people left and 2 on one island and a single player on the other.

    "During the late game, it is very unlikely that there will be a pyrotechnic (correct spelling of the kit) alive, especially if it is in a Mixed Arcade lobby. " <-- The earlier parts of games have a huge influence later in the game, so making decisions early has a big effect; especially for Pyrotechnics who can't do anything later. Which is why I was hoping to make a thread discussing some buffs for these kits; in order to make them live longer. Unfortunately any suggestion I make is refused because there is a clear bias of many players (and their friends) against every breathe I make.

    "This is literally what I explained in my post with evidence and detailed explanation" <-- These thoughts are simply to agree with what you said and to express what I experience in late game situations.
     
    Posted Oct 1, 2020
  6. Honestly, I think that the Coward kit is the best. The maps are random in some cases, and this just comes in handy. For people like me, I saved up enough Gems to unlock the new kit, yet what I was expecting verses what I vote was very disappointing. With the new kit, you get better armor, which does come in handy, but you only get a bow. The bow also badly does nothing. I have never managed to kill one of the dragons, and even if I did, then what? I still have eight more dragons to go. Also, I was expecting to get the leap effect as well as the bow, arrows, and new armor. That would make it more worth the money. If I get stuck on a small island and the dragon comes to get me, I can't leap onto other bigger, better islands because the hit I have doesn't have that. I just stay on the other kit because I just don't WANT to be a coward. I know it means nothing, I just wish they would word it differently The developers definitely need to focus more on that aspect of the game, as well as make less luck-baced games.
     
    Posted Oct 1, 2020
  7. The arrows aren’t supposed to kill the dragons. Once you shoot a dragon, they are supposed to fly away. But I do think the feather in the Coward Kit is more useful.
     
    Posted Oct 1, 2020
  8. @PingGaming Marksmen are meant to repel dragons not kill them. Dragons do not take damage.

    @Believerc It appears that you are talking about Dragons on Bedrock. This post is about Java Dragons.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 2, 2020
  9. Yeah, I was responding to the player who was talking about bedrock
     
    Posted Oct 2, 2020
  10. aint the whole game luck based ?
    nice post boost
     
    Posted Oct 2, 2020
    mab8400 likes this.
  11. This post sums up my issue with dragons. Let me start by talking about balloon town. Looky here another reason to hate this map. Not only is this map too big. It is as said luck based. After the bridge is destroyed in this map you just have to hope you will either get lucky or clutch the game. It's even worse if someone on the other island has pyro kit and throws the sparkler to your island. In fact one time in this map I was in a 1v1 with (I dont remember) in balloon town and we were on opposite islands. At the end of the game my whole island got destroyed (literally not a single block nearby) and I lost. No matter how hard I tried I lost. Although yes dragons is luck based. I feel like winning should still be dependent on skill.
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
  12. If you were a staff member you would be helping the lives of fellow dragons players
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020

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