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Join During Games

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by Paladise, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. Hello!

    Currently you are able to spectate games that don't have a full number of players, meaning that someone probably left during that game. That means for the rest of the game, one team is going to be one player down, and it will make the game unbalanced for that particular team. Especially in games that house fewer players per game like Dominate with 5 players on each team, a 5 v 4 can mean a guaranteed win for one side. In order to combat this issue, I propose allowing players to join during games. Since the mechanism to spectate games is already in place, this can hopefully be easily implemented side-by-side. Within the GUI, possibly you could left click to spectate a game, and right click to play it.

    [​IMG]

    There should be some limitations on how this could work. For example, if all cakes are eaten in Cake Wars, then if a person chooses to play during that game, they are forced to automatically spectate. This should be kept in mind for each gamemode depending on their gameplay. This system is already in-place for Mine-strike, however you aren't allowed to spectate, which some players might want to. If it is too complicated to implement in gamemodes where deciding if a player should be spectating or not (like the cake wars example), this should only be implemented in gamemodes with infinite respawns like Dominate. Other games like Death Tag and Block Hunt, should set players who want to join the game on the Hunters / Chasers team. This could be coupled with rejoin support to allow any players who want to join a game to join.

    Benefits:

    • Allow teams to become more balanced.
    • Allow players who want to play to play immediately and not have to wait until the game ends.
    Cons:

    • Might be difficult to determine whether a player should still be forced to spectate.
    • Might be difficult to determine rewards.
    • If a hacker is banned, they can join the game back with an alternate account easily, continuing to ruin the gameplay. I agree that if this system is implemented, it might lead to hackers joining games faster, so I also propose the following.
    Only allow players with Hero+ to utilize this feature. I have seen several threads where players complain about Heroes not getting their own special unlock like Legend getting MPS. This would help please these players and add another perk to getting a rank! In addition, it would solve the problem above as most alternate accounts do not contain ranks.

    Feel free to write any feedback below!
     
    Posted Aug 26, 2020
    Susie, JAKE///, Mohawk2 and 3 others like this.
  2. Heyoo thanks for this idea!

    I understand the issue and what you want to do to improve DOM. It's pretty nice, but still don't feel like players should be able to join after a player leaves. This can go into so many issues.
    The game is already hard capped. It's best if a new player joins to spectate and wait out til the game ends. I have won many matches where it was 5v4. It really has luck to see if you have a team of DOM players against you and you might be out of luck. Chances are slim to win a 5v4, but it still can be possible. So I don't recommend this for this reason.
    Stats Boosting can be in play as well. An alt can be queued on the team, the alt leaves, a different player joins that is boosting for the win without participating in the game, perhaps towards the end. This is another issue that should be avoided to not cause problems within the game.
    I understand Hero doesn't get much, but there are creative thinkers (not me) that can brainstorm ideas for Hero!
    Good Luck with your thread
    <3
     
    Posted Aug 26, 2020
    GAM likes this.
  3. Helloo!

    I can definitely see where you're coming from! Sometimes, when a game isn't full, I can definitely see players wanting to join in because there's an extra spot, but that just wouldn't work. Games like DOM have a player cap, and once that game is full, it's full. If a player chooses to leave, yes that would make the teams uneven, but a player coming mid-game filling that spot just doesn't make a lot of sense. Once the game is in progress, it's in progress and I don't think once a player leaves it should be open for a player to just join halfway through. I can definitely see why you feel this should be implemented, but from what I see I just don't think this would be efficient and work properly. Overall, I give this idea a -1 because I don't really think it would work or make sense really. I commend you for sharing your idea and really appreciate you creating this thread. I hope you have a good evening!​
     
    Posted Aug 27, 2020
    GAM likes this.
  4. Hey!

    Interesting idea! I agree that it is annoying sometimes when you want to join a game and start playing but you get put into spectator mode. This would be a helpful addition for those players that are ready to get in the gameplay and not have to be patient. Though some people prefer spectating rather than getting into gameplay instantly, so following this implementation will be an option that will let you pick to spectate or join in, but only for the games that correlate with this idea. So Champions (unless it’s CTF overtime), CW (before cake rot), Master Builders, and games similar to those styles. Anyways, I don’t mind the idea but if it is being added, it’s gotta be added correctly and in an efficient way they will support both sides of this topic. Thanks for the suggestion!
     
    Posted Aug 27, 2020
    Parkzr, xGetRekted and Paladise like this.
  5. First of all, I believe that with the proper requirements taken into account, then this could be implemented for most gamemodes. It all depends on how much extra time the Developers have to put into this idea. Like ItsFree said, it could be in gamemodes like CTF, CW, BLD, and other similar games. In addition, there is a chance to win a 5 v 4 in Dominate in most cases. However, with the prevalent pub stomping in this gamemode, it is highly unlikely to win a 5 v 4. I agree that if the teams were balanced from the start, there might be a chance to win a 5 v 4, but why not make it a 5 v 5 to make it more balanced? Obviously, the other team will have an advantage depending on how long the team with 4 players took to gain another player, but it should help bridge the gap just a little.

    While I understand that certain cases of stat boosting may occur with this system implemented, luckily stat boosting is against the rules, and I hope the Rules Committee can help ensure that any players caught stat boosting will be punished.

    I'm fine with Hero not getting an additional perk. However, I proposed that idea to lessen the impact of hackers joining immediately back after getting banned. Perhaps there are some more creative suggestions like you said, like implementing it for only Level 10+ players (it could be unlocked through a level 10 reward) or something like that.

    Again this would make the teams more balanced, and that player wouldn't have to wait until the game ended to play. The rewards should also be tweaked if necessary. Also, can you provide some additional information :)

    Thanks for the feedback!
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 27, 2020
  6. This would be a great idea, especially for Castle Siege if/when it comes back, as people won't have to wait for the next game to start playing!
     
    Posted Aug 27, 2020
    Young_Inventor and Paladise like this.
  7. Hey!

    I agree with a lot of what ItsFree said regarding the possible benefits but the nuances required to keep it fair for all parties in games. I would like to include though that most competitive communities would most likely not take well to this as swapping out a player mid-game could seem unfair especially if used as something such as a stalling tactic. I could also see an extreme circumstance of players attempting to get other players to leave a certain match so they could be able to join. Also like OP stated, rewards and stat counts would become very convoluted. I do not think you could be able to justify a person joining half-way through a match getting wins counted in their /stats and how their rewards would be fairly distributed.

    Overall, I understand how this could improve games where unfair teams is difficult to overcome like DOM or CTF but I believe it would take too much development time and too many constraints to workaround on how to create and continue fair gameplay.

    Thanks for posting! -1
     
    Posted Aug 30, 2020
    ItsFree likes this.
  8. Hello and thanks for the feedback!

    I fully agree! Since most MPS's including the ones only running Castle Siege rarely stop for new players coming in, this will be beneficial in making sure they don't leave if they are impatient. Again this system can be easily implemented for MPS's, as there is no worry about calculating rewards or statistics.

    I'm not sure what you mean here, could you elaborate? If they are worried about this issue, they can easily outlaw it in their individual rules. Many competitive leagues have their own rulebooks that they have designed with feedback from the teams that make up that league, and if the majority do not like the idea of swapping players during a game, they can add it to their rulebook.

    I'm sure that if any extreme circumstances occur they would fall under Chat trolling of Spamming and would be punishable. Furthermore, this type of getting players to leave occurs often when EVENT servers are up and full. Players who have ranks who have friends that don't have ranks (therefore not being able to go over the hard-cap) typically employ these strategies to get their friends in. The end result is that no one listens to them, and continues to play the EVENT server. I imagine this is what would also happen if players were allowed to join during games.

    Again, this system has already been semi-implemented in Mine-strike since anybody can join during the game, but are not allowed to spectate. Both the rewards and stats calculations can just be brought over. For example, in Mine-strike if you join during the game and win, you still get the win added to your stats, with the appropriate amount of rewards also added. I have not seen any backlash from the community due to this, and I'm sure that carrying the system over will have the same type of reaction. I apologize for not realizing this in my original post, and for any confusion this might have caused you.

    One last point that I would like to reiterate is that this won't only apply for Champions, this could be for games within MPS (rewards or statistics wouldn't be an issue), Cake Wars, Master Builders, Block Hunt, Bridges, Turf Wars, Draw My Thing, Sheep Quest, Evolution, Milk the Cow, Death Tag, etc. Overall, this would benefit most games on Mineplex if the proper precautions are taken.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 30, 2020
    Mohawk2 and Young_Inventor like this.
  9. UPDATE / Bump #1:

    Requirements for individual games to be able to join:

    For each game ensure that if a player joins, it doesn't go over the hard cap. It can go over the cap (not the hard cap) if a player has a rank.

    Cake Wars Standard / Duos.
    • That team's cake hasn't been eaten yet (cannot join during Cake Rot)
    • Join team with fewest amount of players.
    Block Hunt
    • Automatically get placed on Hunters team.
    Master Builders
    • Cannot join during voting (can join any other time)
    Draw My Thing

    • Can join any time (Will be a guesser when joining)
    NANO Games

    • Already Implemented
    Turf Wars

    • Join team with less players (when joining give 32 wool?)
    Bridges

    • Join team with less players before bridges fall (Can't join after)
    Minestrike

    • Already implemented.
    SSM Solo

    • Be able to join, but have the same number of lives as the person with the fewest. So if the people in the lobby have 3, 3, 2, you will also have 2 lives. If a person has already died and left the game, you can only spectate.
    • Can't join for teams since that means a person would have already have died.
    Champions Dominate / CTF

    • Join team with less players.
    • You can join any time in Dominate, but only before Sudden Death in CTF.
    Death Tag

    • Can join any time but will be placed on the Chasers team (possibly given Alpha?)
    Evolution

    • Be able to join any time but given Iron Golem.
    One in the Quiver

    • Be able to join at any time
    Sheep Quest

    • Join team with least amount of players.
    Castle Siege

    • Join team with fewer amount of players.
    • If that is the defenders team, you become a wolf.
    So these are just some requirements before being able to join during games. As you can see, the logic really isn't that complicated, and shouldn't take Developers that much time. Additionally, you can see the amount of games this will have a positive impact on. Instead of having to wait in long queue times (a symptom of lower player counts), you could simply join during a game and not have to spectate it until it ends. Of course, the option to spectate will also be there. Furthermore, this will help balance the teams (in most cases), allowing these players all to have an enjoyable time.

    One new thing that I just realized is that if a person does /sv <server>, then a GUI would have to pop up, asking them whether they want to spectate or join the game (if the option is given). If this seems like a hassle, then the current system within Minestrike can be used (will automatically join the game).


     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 12, 2020,
    Last edited Sep 12, 2020
    Susie and Young_Inventor like this.

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