Discussion in 'Server Discussion' started by vaeoz, Jul 21, 2021.
Does anyone know why mineplex doesn't IP ban people who are gwenned or staff banned?
Mineplex does IP ban in rare cases where it's obvious someone is using alts to bypass punishments and break server rules, but generally they don't IP ban so that siblings who live together can still play and so that places with lots of people (like universities, coffee shops, libraries, apartment buildings, etc.) don't get their IP banned due to one person.
I believe IP banning would bring in more players than it would keep out though. That's why servers like minemen are specifically know to host a more legit playerbase.
I strongly disagree: If you ip ban people, they'll use vpns to get around it, vpn protection wouldn't cover most people. If people want to hack on a server, they'll hack: no matter how hard you try.
If you don't IP Ban people, it's easier to spot the cheater through IP checks anyways.
You could apply this logic to hacking in general though. Why ban if they just have alts? Having an anti cheat is unfair because it sometimes false bans people and the real bans it hands out have no impact because of alts 11!11
I mean Mineplex already ip bans... but the system right now is so ineffective since it isn't automated that people can just continually blatantly hack or break the rules and you can see the result of it where there are tons of inappropriate builds in Master Builders, hundreds of blatant hackers in games like Skywars, and games like Minestrike, where there are at least 1-2 rayers in any lobby (im not even kidding).
If the owners finally decide that they want to automate the system, then they also should attempt to ban as many VPN services as possible (i've heard Mineplex already prevents some), but that isn't an excuse to hide behind, that "OH players will just use other ips". Like SpitefulNick said, why have an anticheat that doesn't work 100% of the time and sometimes false bans, it's going to be the same for preventing as many people from logging in through VPNs.
I mean, yes: mojang needs to sort out it's own problem. No matter how good gwen/similar anti cheats get, people will continue cheating: something needs to be done to target alts & clients by Mojang.
I have a feeling no matter how hard Mineplex tries, it will always be plagued by hackers unless moderators know who's cheating before they start affecting people (or it becomes too much effort for hackers to cheat, which very likely wont happen). We can already do this to a very low extent, but our current approach is relying heavily on reactive moderation: not preemptive moderation, I'm not sure how that could be improved, we already have a system to do this, but it's not used to its full potential by staff/developers.
They ban every vpn they're aware of: which just depends on how transparent the vpn company is that the ip is a vpn. There's pretty much no other good way of detecting "oh cookiebilly is using a vpn" unless the ip matches a vpn provider/clearly states it's a vpn: which Mineplex already does check. The vpn protection pretty much cannot get any better.
I wasn't using an excuse, I was stating the truth, if we know that someone has previous bans on an ip address: then we can preemptively assume they may cheat again on that same ip on that sudden new account they login to, however: if they swap ip addresses with ip bans in place: it'd just make it harder to find and locate those potential cheaters, which would inevitably cause more issues than it'd solve. Sadly, only admins have the tools to check alternate accounts: which I strongly believe should be a moderator ability, to allow us to deal with cheaters the second they start cheating, instead of waiting a while for reports of them cheating to come in.
Ip banning would be a good idea if people couldn't easily bypass it (aka it's expensive to do so), but they can: so it's not a good idea: it would only harm the server: I think even the vpn bans are a bad idea, it'd be easier just to let moderators know that they're a potential risk by adding them to a queue.
The same does apply to gwen, if it's expensive to bypass (e.g. you need to pay for clients to bypass it), fewer people will cheat: but, it needs work to get to that point.
Just automatically ip ban (or network ban) IPs and accounts that can be banned (10+ hacking alts). Back before I got networked there was a three month period where I could have been network banned but wasn't because no one bothered to check.
This system would also be more effective because even with VPNs there's only a limited number of servers to connect to. I could easily burn through 10 alts a day while hacking, but racked up hundreds banned on the same VPN server with no consequence.
Something doesn't quite add up here. I've been banned (on clans) for "VPN IP" by staff members while on a VPN server that bypasses the VPN firewall. There's obviously some other way of detecting a VPN that isn't used by the firewall.
No idea how clans moderation works, so can't really comment.
This isn't clans moderation this is detecting a VPN. It's only bannable on clans (for some reason). My point is not that it's bannable it's that it's possible to detect.
I have no idea if those are manual or automated, I doubt it's automated: but I'm just guessing.
Mineplex was planning on implementing IP bans a couple years ago but they decided to implement an anti-vpn system instead.
Hey, so IP banning has been brought up a lot and the main argument against it is so that it doesn't ban entire schools or households even if it was only one person that was cheating or breaking the rules. Some people argue that since we don't have IP bans, that the system is super ineffective against alts of players that have been banned and whatnot, which is true to an extent imo, but I still think that the way we handle things is alright.
As mentioned above, an anti-vpn system was introduced some time ago which you can read about in this thread. It's really helpful since we don't directly IP ban and does stop tons of VPNs.
We indirectly IP ban, though, if an IP of a player matches with a network banned player, for example. Staff can easily request an IP check if a player forwards a name to us or if we are suspicious of someone and, if the IPs match (or there is enough evidence proving the players are the same otherwise), they will be banned for either Evading Network Ban or Compromised Account. Although this system isn't that effective against swarms of alts, it still does its job pretty well in certain cases.
At least until Mojang ends the lives of all NFAs and SFAs (something I'm somewhat doubting will effectively happen) this system clearly doesn't work. Speaking as both a legit player and past hacker there are far too many hackers on the server and it's far to easy to hack on alts.
The Anti-VPN system is fairly bad tbh. It's not too hard to find Nord servers that bypass it, and I've even found a completely free VPN that bypasses the firewall on almost every server. Once you find one server that works you're pretty much set for life, as any NFA you hack on is going to get banned way before staff bother to IP check it and network ban it for the hundreds of bans on the same IP. Automatic IP banning is needed to counter alts.
As a person who lives in a household where more than 1 of us plays on Mineplex, it's good that Mineplex doesn't IP ban that quickly. Sure network bans exist, but that's in more extreme cases. I make sure it'll never get to that point and I think the system alright is okay, it's hard to come up with a flawless way to deal with hackers without sacrificing freedom.
true, some schools have gaming tournaments, you could join the ip and try get ban fast and bang 300 people insantly banned, even tho its not a mineplex thing, its always on hypxiel they do that, , if 300 people on the same ip are on mineplex the admins should check on it