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Introduce IP bans for bedrock

Discussion in 'Bedrock Ideas' started by Mothy, Jun 11, 2022.

  1. Ok that’s great that we have a VPN blocker, but why on earth do we have a VPN blocker? And what’s the point in having it if it doesn’t work?


    As you said…

    “I'm not really sure what you meant with the "reach out to Mineplex so they can guide you through the steps of creating a VPN that only you can access"


    Sorry there was a typo, and if in fact you still Don’t understand let me explain. Our VPN blocker does not work (FACT), so lets use that to are advantage. Let’s say we start IP banning, and an innocent person gets kicked from the server, they reach out to Mineplex support and Mineplex guides them through the steps of creating a VPN so that they can continue playing on the server. That’s what I was trying to say…


    (Yes I am implying that we get around some of are useless rules to make Mineplex a better place for are rule abiding active players.)



    Now I know everything I am saying probably doesn’t mean much to you, and I am probably just wasting my breath, but I want to challenge you… I want you to go play cakewars on bedrock for two hours, and then tell everyone here how many hackers you encounter. @maevestarbaby


    ————————————————————————



    And I agree with you full heartedly! Every rule abiding player deserves the right to play! But as @GuardianInASuit stated ladder in this thread this is a very unlikely occurrence! And if an innocent player has been wronged they could appeal to mineplex staff, and than follow through with one of my previous suggestions…


    ———————————————————————



    Yes you do… If you even want to discuss the disastrous state of mineplex’s hacking problems you need to actually play on the server, and then and only then can you truly understand the real problem. And if you were a normal player, you too might be wanting an IP ban so that you could actually play some of your favorite games.


    ———————————————————————


    So by disagreeing, your actually agreeing? Because that’s what it sounds like to me…


    Yes there was a cake wars update, but by update do you mean one new map? And teaming, How exactly do you prevent that? “And upcoming stuff” unfortunately its been upcoming for about two or more years now, so I don’t think we can expect anything, anytime soon.


    —————————————————————


    Yes I know that @rosmeme is a very active and helpful admin! But not all are as helpful… Here is a small list.


    @defek7 (Title; CEO) Totally useless, could care less about the server.


    @Strutt20 (title; ceo) Totally useless, could care less about the server.


    @DeanTM (title; leader) Totally useless, could care less about the server.


    @AlexTheCoder (title; Admin, and Dev) He haven’t released an update for about two years now.


    @Flaym (title; admin) Does not even have a bedrock account, so for most of mineplex totally useless.


    And that brings me to one last point… Don’t you find it odd how not one single active Dev, Admin, builder, or social media player or owner has reached level 15 in bedrock… I’m just speculating here but I’m starting to think Bedrock players are only going to get the short end of the stick in years to come.


    ————————————————————


    I really appreciate that, and I understand. But before you start shutting down all feedback or ideas that might help improve the server, please take them into deep consideration first.


    Thanks for reading

    God Bless, and have a great night!
     
    Posted Jun 16, 2022,
    Last edited Jun 16, 2022
  2. The dev time as far as I know is mostly going towards the new game that is upcoming and the Infrastructure work, which was part of the reason the beta network was released. There's a lot of behind the scene things that take dev time that community members and even staff members don't really see.
     
    Posted Jun 16, 2022
  3. If you have not noticed the beta network is for Java, the bedrock network is the one in question, in all my responses. It is also the server that makes up more than 90% of mineplex, so why then do they continue to work on the less popular server? Because they are trying to revive it, which I think we all can agree on, with are current state of leadership will never happen!
     
    Posted Jun 16, 2022
  4. idk it took nearly a year of no updates in order to get a map update lol. If they arent working on sum huge update then idk
     
    Posted Jun 17, 2022
  5. If not IP bans, they've gotta ramp it up somehow.
     
    Posted Jun 20, 2022 at 10:42 AM
    PhantomRX likes this.
  6. as I already suggested: if people can just make a new account, then perhaps they should try being harsher when it comes to deciding who is guilty of breaking rules and who is not

    That way we would be banning more cheaters for example, and if someone innocent got banned: they can just make a new account or appeal their punishment

    The appeal system in particular works well: I ocassionally meet people, who I had reports accepted on (even for offenses like hacking and teaming), in my games.

    The system also seems to work very well in that area, I met one of those players just a few days after having a report accepted on him, and if that system works so well, then why even bother making sure that the punishment given out at first is 100% correct, especially if it not only is not 100% correct a lot of the time, but also can be cancelled if someone (based on who of those people I've ended up seeing unbanned) can just ask nicely for the case to be reviewed again, and it often gets reviewed again.

    Btw, while we are at the topic of "correctness":
    I had a lot of mods in the past who looked at my reports very much overthinking things or coming up with really awful excuses to deny those reports, and that, despite the fact that people can just make new accounts for free or appeal the punishment, I am not gonna name any specific names as a lot of the "excuses" come from private conversations that, in my opinion (and probably from the rules POV), should simply stay private, however I feel that things like "we don't know if they knew any better" or "I only see what you show" as excuses to deny a total of 6 teaming reports, 4 of which, in my opinion, were very blatant cases, or "that's not your evidence" to deny 2 more reports, while the evidence is posted on the same YT channel on which I post evidence for reports for almost a year by now, definitely deserve to be quoted here as examples of said overthinking and awful excuses.

    Like: your only job with those reports isn't to think "what if he didn't know any better" or to check the sources of my evidence (at which the person in question did a terrible job), your job is to review the evidence, decide whether the offense in question visibly happens in the evidence, and then based on that (with an addition of it being done intentionally or unintentionally for low severity offenses, but even that can be seen, pretty sure intentional teaming and unintentional teaming are easy to differentiate: one of those looks like an accident, the other like a plot to overthrow someone) make a verdict and either accept or deny the report, and then, if the report was accepted, then also punish the player.
     
    Posted Jun 20, 2022 at 11:26 AM
    Widestsinger and PhantomRX like this.
  7. I'm simply going to be reply to this part of your post because my thoughts on IP bans are pretty short and wouldn't make for a decent post so I'm not going to bother. TLDR: I would like to see IP bans implemented but I don't foresee it happening any time soon.


    I would break this down into smaller bits but this is all one gigantic run-on sentence so I guess I'll just reply to all of it at once o-o

    First of all, as I'm sure you're well aware, if you are unhappy with the response to your report you can always PM the RP member that answered it and ask them why their verdict was what it was. Just make sure you provide a link to the report that you're referring to as it gets confusing and you may be ignored. Now I can't speak for the conversations you've had with the RP members but I've taken the liberty of looking at some of your most recent denied reports, and I agree with the denial. However, I don't think responses like "They didn't know any better" are acceptable. If a rule is broken action should be taken. Alternatively though, a rule that may appear broken to a community member may not be broken in the eyes of a staff member. Perhaps a warning is in order, or there just wasn't sufficient evidence to warrant a full punishment.

    For instance, since you mentioned crossteaming in your post. If two people on opposite teams are standing on the same island, but they're both looting chests on their own and ignoring each other, I would personally deny that report for insufficient evidence. The reasoning for this is because maybe one of them was on low health and couldn't afford to get in a fight. Maybe they just didn't see each other. Plus, generally, a 4 second clip of two people standing next to each other isn't enough to warrant a punishment for crossteaming. However, if these two people are throwing resources at each other or helping each other win battles, THEN that would be sufficient enough for crossteaming. That is directly against the rules and would warrant a punishment, in my opinion at least. Maybe other RP members see it differently, I don't know.

    Circling back to your excuses bit, "I only see what you show" isn't really an excuse, but it is the truth. Again, if you just give us a 4 second clip of two players standing next to each other, thats just not enough. We have to be able to SEE 100% valid evidence tat a rule is being broken before we can accept the report. If we're even a *little* bit unsure if it was lag or the player didn't mean to do somthing, then the report is denied.

    Overthinking isn't a terrible thing when it comes to punishment. I do not want to falsely punish anybody, no matter how small the punishment and no matter how well the appeal process works. Even if its easier to make a new account than to appeal, I don't want to have to make someone deal with that in the first place.

    Our job as RP members is to make sure that no one gets falsely punished. While "He didn't know any better" isn't a good excuse (go to Harry about it) "It only happened once and it wasn't sufficient to warrant a punishment" is 100% valid (for general offenses - Obviously if a person is fly hacking "once" it would still warrant a punishment.)

    I encourage you to reach out to me more privately about this so I can get a better idea of what you are talking about because from the reports from you that I've looked at, I don't see anything wrong with the verdicts. If you are having issues please PM me and we can have a conversation about it.
     
    Posted Jun 20, 2022 at 2:30 PM
    Widestsinger likes this.
  8. Did that multiple times, that's my source of the "excuses".

    I am fully aware of that, however, in the 6 teaming reports I mentioned, that only applies to 2 of them, in them indeed, I admit, the evidence is kind of insufficiente. the 4 others however were cases of "2 guys attack me while I am chilling in my base, one keeps killing me, the other eats my cake". Note that the reports I am talking about can be considered a little older (like, around january and february), so maybe you just didn't look at them as they may have been too old

    I mean: one of the RP's who I talked to about those reports mentioned something that cases like that can only be handled if the reports aren't too old

    I am generally referring to a few reports I had around that time, not even just those 6, but even 2 others were I was accused of not using my own evidence.


    Again: I can only recall two reports to which that applies, at least from ones where the mentioned excuses were used


    I know that, but how would you treat a case, where 2 or more people, attack someones base at the same time, visibly cooperating, or at least ignoring each others presence?

    Based on some of the teaming and crossteaming reports I had accepted, including ones from you, I assume you would at least consider accepting the majority of those reports.
    However, the reports which I talked about to the RP's, 6 of such "obvious" reports in total, were rejected, exactly with the mentioned excuses.

    I don't mind the "4 second clip"-ish reports being rejected for "I only see what you show", but ones where you can visibly see me being attacked by two or more cooperating players being rejected with the exact same excuse kind of doesn't work for me, and I don't think it usually would work for anyone.



    Based on the RP's behavior who rejected the reports in question and gave me the "excuses", I am pretty sure that at least a few RP's (for whatever reason) view that differently


    While I totally understand that, I also think that this simply doesn't work for mineplex. It only works for servers and/or games, where the anticheat is good enough to sort out at least like 95% of the "blatant" hackers and rule offenders, so that the more tricky cases can then be reviewed by humans.

    It doesn't work when the anticheat can't even detect fly hacks consistently, sometimes it kicks a guy for jumping 1 block too high, and sometimes it completely ignores a guy flying from island to island while 10 blocks above the ground for 10 games straight.





    I may need a few details as to what you need. you want to just look at the reports in question, or perhaps also send you the messages with the excuses I mentioned? and if you want that, should I also reveal which people made those "excuses" or do you just want me to show you to them to make sure they aren't made up?

    I will gladly reach out privately, however I may need some information as to what exactly you need from me.
     
    Posted Jun 20, 2022 at 3:22 PM
    Widestsinger and PhantomRX like this.
  9. You're kind of going to expect that from a server that was a Java-only server from 2013-to 2016 which gained a majority of its active player base from being #1. Also, the majority of who you labeled has been a volunteer/working with the company for well over 6 or 7 years and with being a part of the company for so long, they obviously work with Java more. As for your Owner reaching level 15 comment, owners' jobs aren't to play the server, the level you see defek and Strutt have is most likely given on Java. But you aren't wrong with the "Bedrock players are only going to get the short end of the stick in years to come." comment. You're actually currently getting the short end of the stick, and will for the foreseeable future, unfortunately.

    Bedrock will receive some kind of large change as well as Java within the next 2 months I'd say. Currently, they're testing and working on an infrastructure change as well as a host change. It's been in beta for a while now on Java (due to it being easier for testing according to the developers) and that should fix some issues with Bedrock or maybe it won't. Just a small correction, there is only 1 CEO (defek), Strutt is a COO.
     
    Posted Jun 20, 2022 at 4:31 PM,
    Last edited Jun 20, 2022 at 6:33 PM
  10. > @DeanTM is the Head of Staff; therefore not "totally useless", was also previous Quality Assurance lead until @rosmeme took over.

    > @Flaym is the Clans Management Admin; Clans being a game solely on Java, not Bedrock, hence why you have jumped to the conclusion of ""totally useless"".

    Might be an idea to do a little more research into what you're spouting about before you call people out.

    Edit note:
    Dean also does quite a lot behind the scenes, especially for Bedrock & the Marketplace stuff (he is the manager of the the Mineplex Marketplace Team).
     
    Posted Jun 21, 2022 at 10:09 AM
    Widestsinger, chrris, Toki and 2 others like this.
  11. Would just like to add on and say that in my opinion, having worked with him for years, Dean does the most for Bedrock and it's very sad how underappreciated he is just because he doesn't want to sit and talk to people in discord/forums or whatever publicly.

    I mean I'm level 22, but level doesn't honestly mean that much. I haven't leveled up on Java in years, doesn't mean that I'm out of touch with Java at all, just like I'm not out of touch with Bedrock.

    Social Media senior mods don't really need to be playing games, their work is managing and creating content for well, our social media (mostly Twitter). Developers don't need to be playing games either, most of their work is spent in coding and testing their code (which is mostly done on testing servers and thus levels and stuff don't transfer to the live network). Admins manage teams and projects (for example I manage Staff Management which manages mods & trainees, Rules Committee which oversees the rules for the network, and Discord Management which oversees our discord server) which doesn't really make playing games a necessity for me/other admins.

    Anywhom, my stance on IP bans has always been meh. I pretty much agree with what @Emiliee & @thejoshxgames has said. As someone whom has gotten IP banned on other servers because of actions of my husband / friends that have been in the same household and on the same IP as me, I always found it quite unfair on my end. Realistically, the people that come back on dozens of alternative accounts will end up finding VPNs to bypass the punishment anyway, similarly to how people already do to bypass their bans (Network Bans mainly) on Java.
     
    Posted Jun 21, 2022 at 10:41 AM
    Emiliee, danb76, traincar100 and 6 others like this.
  12. I've noticed some points when reading your post:

    Defek7/Strutt20: They are hard-working owners of the server, which is doing a lot of behind-the-scenes work. Owners don't show up in-game around this time, which makes it also a rare happening. Mentioning that they are 'Useless' isn't true because they keep the community running. You can compare them with a pumping hard off the server.

    DeanTM: As mentioned before, DeanTM is the current head of staff, which means he is responsible for all the staff members and side subjects here on Mineplex. He also was the head of recruitment and quality assurance, replacing the two familiar admins 'Islendingurinn' and 'rosmeme.' Also, mentioning that he is 'useless' is false.

    AlexTheCoder: Alex is the head of development here on Mineplex, making him a Leader. He and his whole team are consistently brainstorming for new updates here on Mineplex. Developing takes a lot of time, so I understand it can feel like nothing is happening, and this isn't true.

    Flaym: Flaym is the current clan management Admin and is primarily active on Java because Clans are Java soles. That's why Flaym doesn't have a bedrock account linked. Also, if you are not a staff member that operates on a different platform, you are not allowed to link your account.

    I recommend not spitting out the first-looking opinion but investigating it first.


    Have a nice rest of your day!
     
    Posted Jun 21, 2022 at 5:47 PM
    WalkOverYou and Widestsinger like this.
  13. Before you read this i just want to tell you that I would use the quote feature but I don't know how to make more than one quote so yeah sorry about that

    I mean I'm level 22, but level doesn't honestly mean that much. I haven't leveled up on Java in years, doesn't mean that I'm out of touch with Java at all, just like I'm not out of touch with Bedrock. - TOKI


    That's a good point but it would help you truly understand the pain we go through when we try to play half the games on this server such as; sw, cw, dragons (nowadays) mb and more!

    I think banning innocent players to get rid if the god awful hacker problem is worth it because it will do more good than bad. Another thing that I want to say is if you do get IP banned for whatever reason beside you breaking rules can't you make it say when you get IP banned to contact a mod on discord or on the website to look at your account to fix your false ban?

    I'm sure that "we have ONE dev and they are hardworking" is 100% true but if so many player want the 1 dev to do something specific then I think it's worth delaying something that prob wont be added for another year.


    As I mentioned, there are other reasons for not implementing IP bans, I won't go through all of them but you should also know that our lovely Microsoft would probably find issues with it. They look at that sort of stuff and would most likely have a problem if we implemented it.-JOSH... I would be ok with this answer if I didn't want to know any other reason besides the "school" and "other people using my/our IP" excuses. Thank you for reading this and have a hacker free day :)
     
    Posted Jun 21, 2022 at 5:56 PM
  14. Ok Let’s get this ball rolling…

    @DeanTM is head of staff correct? And when you to you say staff you Imply paid positions, of which there are about ten. But I’m sure that’s still a lot to manage. So I apologize to Dean for making a rash statement.

    On to @Flaym
    Did you not read my post, Or did you just skim over it? I said “for “MOST” of mineplex totally useless.” NOT all of mineplex. It pays to read and understand players comments, and concerns. And if you still disagree with my statement here are the facts, the bedrock server makes up about 92% of Mineplex! If @Flaym is strictly Java then he is only helpful for about 8% of mineplex. Hence “most”.

    And as for your edit note, working on marketplace is important because it brings in money for mineplex. But if you loose players to Cube Craft or The Hive because your server is no where near the level that they have achieved, then marketplace doesn’t really madder. To increase players you need to make the server better! Your focusing on Java which only has a handful of players left, yet bedrock making up 90% of the server lies untouched. It just doesn’t make sense to me…

    It’s also kinda funny how all the responses to my post revolved around the one part of my comment. It’s almost like everyone agreed on everything else I said.
     
    Posted Jun 22, 2022 at 12:51 AM
    Widestsinger likes this.

  15. First off, If I made any rash comments on Dean I apologize. In frustration due to the state of this server I made a rash statement.

    Secondly, level 22… I think that speaks for it self so I won’t add to that… But “If you even want to discuss the disastrous state of mineplex’s hacking problems you need to actually play on the server, and then and only then can you truly understand the real problem. And if you were a normal player, you too might be wanting an IP ban so that you could actually play some of your favorite games.” (Quote from LockNess8221)


    And that is exactly what separates you and all leads of the server from their actual creation! You are right about Social Media, they Don’t need anything to do with the bedrock server nor do any creator or manager of any kind. All they need to do is create it, test it, and then let us figure out how to deal with the nonstop hacking and other flaws. And this is the exact reason you shut down any ideas on the subject of IP banning, because you Don’t play on it!!! You Don’t know how frustrating it is, you Don’t understand the anger and even pain we can feel!

    I will end with this; If I falsely judged any Leader of Mineplex I apologize, its just so frustrating to me as a player to see the neglected bedrock server (The only one I can access) Just rot away. And all the emotions I feel when I get far along in a game and wham, hacker comes and ruins a game for everyone! It’s just really frustrating…


    Thanks For reading…

    -The Critic
     
    Posted Jun 22, 2022 at 1:24 AM,
    Last edited Jun 23, 2022 at 12:22 AM
  16.  
    Posted Jun 22, 2022 at 3:18 PM
    LockNess8221 likes this.

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