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In game warnings/punishments should say the EXACT reason why you got it

Discussion in 'Server Discussion' started by Name Tag, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. I'm not sure if this goes here or in the idea discussion place so feel free to move it if this isn't where it belongs

    So I have 6 warnings in game, all of them for chat infractions. Anyways, when I use /ph to check them in game, there are some that don't give a clear reason for why I got that punishment. They say the date of the punishment and what rule I broke, but they don't say how I broke it. I think this is annoying because how am I supposed to know why I got the warning when it doesn't say? And even more importantly, how am I supposed to know if it was a valid reason? Yes, I know that I can go get a staff to go check for me, which I have done in the past. However, I think it would be a whole lot less of a hassle for both me and the staff member if it would just say the reason for my warning in the /ph. Also don't say that is is impossible to type this for a punishment in game. I know this is not true because 2 of my 6 warnings actually do say a specific reason- they quote my chat so I know EXACTLY what I did wrong. But on the other 4, it doesn't say what I did wrong. It should be a requirement for them to quote what I said wrong in chat if they are going to give me a punishment for a chat violation. If they would simply enter what I did wrong while they're assigning me a punishment, then it would take less time and I wouldn't have to waste another person's time by getting them to check for me.

    Before you comment "but u should know why you got your warning" Let me just say that is wrong. For a chat warning, there are many things I could have said to have triggered the warning, but maybe only one true reason why the warning was given.
     
    Posted Mar 2, 2021
  2. Yea, the staff they say the reason is always specified by i haven't got the exact reason on like 2/3 of my punishments. It just says what category the punishment falls under.

    I think this is just a mistake of the particular mod executing the punishment.
     
    Posted Mar 2, 2021
    Name Tag likes this.
  3. Yeah, I guess this makes sense but there should only be two cases where you end up having it not say the reason for a chat violation. Either A, the punishment will be something like "Report #123456 - General Rudness" or B, "General Rudeness [FR]".

    In the first case, you were warned/muted by an ingame report with the /report command. Then, from the chat logs, you were muted. Any moderator or higher on Java can check those report chatlogs for you. Some staff do put the exact message string as well, but it is not required. Many times with those reports, the report ID, the reason, and the chat string you said ends up being too long for us to execute the command, which can cause issues. So if you get one of those, you can just message a staff member.

    Same thing with the [FR]s, you were punished from player evidence that was submitted via mineplex.com/report. Any staff member on Reports Patrol can view this evidence and inform you what you said to deserve a mute. Again, it could be good to add it but is not required. All the evidence is saved for later reviewal. It would be easier to add in the message here, I see that.

    Because the messages are not always logged based on a moderator mute ingame, that is when the message gets quoted in the mute or warning, which is great for clarity for you as a player. Ultimately, the system is serving the staff at the moment rather than clarity for the players but I think that this can change and I would not be opposed to punishments including more of the reason, or making it so that players could see an obfuscated version of the report logs that hide player names.

    Either way, I appreciate your suggestion and I hope this could provide some clarity for why some thing are the way they are.

    And again with what I said above, not all cases require the moderator to quote the message so it is likely not a mistake.
     
    Posted Mar 2, 2021
  4. Nah, not having to quote the offence is dumb to me. Instead of putting it right there, in game, easily accessible, you want to make players do more work and have them wait longer.
    If they don't have a forum account, they have to make one, then they have to find someone who can tell them that information, then they have to ask, and then wait 2 days for the answer, and only then will you know what you got punished for.

    And why not quote some "serious offences"? By mineplex standards, those "serious offences" are first grade insults. Are the modmen scared of what was said in the chat and therefore can't quote it in the punishment reason, or is it too much work.
     
    Posted Mar 2, 2021
    Name Tag likes this.
  5. Many people have said the same above but from my personal experience as a Moderator I would always type in the reason unless it was a /report or forum report.

    I'm not really sure if Staff Punishment Guidelines have changed since I was staff, but I remember that if I ever punished for a serious offense or even things like Filter Bypass I would always include the quote in a regular punishment, I was taught that way so I did it.

    But for /reports and forum reports I didn't. Above staff have provided a pretty logical explanation for the /reports - the token already takes up much of the character limit.

    Although the report token might sound like a stupid reason, you have to remember that the character limit is for the entire command. So for you, for example, it would be /p 256Dragons Report#375924 Filter Bypass ... See how I didn't even begin to type a quote and the message is so long already? In 1.8 as well the message limit is shorter, and can't be extended iirc. I think on 1.16 you can get away with typing everything, but don't take my words as truth as I don't know if it would affect the code or anything like that.

    For forum reports/staff reports, all it is is a [FR] or [SR] so a quote wouldn't take up too much space I think...but I think direct quotes or descriptions are not required given that processing these reports should be done swiftly and the evidence is there to contact a staff member for if necessary. Personally I would still type in the reason since Java reports are quite easy to handle, there's never anything like backlog, given the large amount of staff members on the team, but for Bedrock it's a bit different. There's RP team is tiny and the reports may be left unanswered for many days as there are so many. So wasting an extra amount of time just to provide an accurate description or get the quote right can make processing much slower, and just shouldn't be necessary since evidence can be easily asked for.
     
    Posted Mar 2, 2021
    WowCaleb and Name Tag like this.
  6. Hey!

    To be direct, if your punishment was issued by a staff member who was present when you broke the rule then you should always receive a detailed description of what you did. In other words, if your punishment wasn't issued from a forum or in-game report.There are three ways in which a punishment can be issued to you and I'll outline each of them below:
    • On the spot - If a staff member is present in your server when you break the rule, they can clearly see what you did and must act on it. When they issue the punishment, they must be detailed in its description as they aren't required to gather evidence.
    • From a forum report - If you are punished from a forum report, the punishment syntax will have "[FR]" after it. Only in rare cases will a forum report punishment include a quote or description - most of the time it will just be the reason. This is because Reports Patrol have the evidence logged and can refer to it if you want to know exactly what you were punished for.
    • From a /report - In this case, the punishment syntax will have "Report #" followed by an ID of about six digits. It's at the discretion of the staff member processing the /report whether they want to quote or include a description. It is not required because the evidence is always on file and a Mod+ can look it up to you if you want to learn more about your punishment.
    If your punishment description does not have a /report ID or "[FR]" included, and there is no description of what you did, then a mistake has been made and you should submit a support ticket @ https://www.mineplex.com/tickets so the staff member can be informed of the information they omitted. However, if there is a report ID or "[FR]" without a description then that's intentional.

    If you're suggesting that all means of warranting a punishment should include a detailed description, there's a few reasons why I disagree with this. First of all, there is such a high volume of both in-game and forum reports that it would be unrealistic to expect staff members to add an additional line or two for every single one. While that doesn't sound like much, it does add up when you're dealing with hundreds of player-submitted reports per week. It especially doesn't make sense to go to the extra effort when the evidence is on file anyway.

    Secondly, most players simply don't care. Believe it or not, the majority of punishments issued from a forum report or in-game report do not have players searching for the reason why. So there is no reason for staff to spend the additional time adding a detailed description when the majority of players aren't going to benefit from it while only a minority does. And for that minority, it's a simple process to finding out more about your punishment. If it was a forum report, message a member of RP listed at mineplex.com/subteams or ask a staff member in-game to contact RP for you and find out. If it was an in-game report, ask any Mod+ you come by.

    This part actually isn't true so feel free to disregard it. Staff shouldn't refrain from quoting something a player said just because it's "too bad" - even if it is something you couldn't repeat in your kitchen, the player needs to hear what they did wrong to educate themselves on their mistake (presuming they actually care). If staff have to quote something - like if they're issuing a punishment to someone who broke a rule in front of them - they can't decide not to do so because of the nature of he quote. As for reports, if staff choose not to quote then that's their own decision (likely due to the inconvenience of going to the extra lengths) and, again, nothing to do with what was said. The only exception would be something like revealing personal information as that puts others in danger.
     
    Posted Mar 2, 2021,
    Last edited Mar 2, 2021
    Name Tag likes this.
  7. I wanted to sit down and rewrite my response because I feel that I inaccurately addressed some points made in this thread. With that being said -

    @WowCaleb has provided a spectacular response above outlining exactly how certain punishments are handled over others. (I.E. In the moment, Forum Report or /Report)

    To reiterate what was said, for every punishment that is warranted with a Staff Member present in your game/lobby, of course there should be a detailed description of what was said, regardless. If there is not a quote provided in your punishment with a Staff Member present in your game/lobby when you broke said rule, as suggested above, you’re more than welcome to collect evidence and make a Support Ticket here. Support Tickets are the appropriate place to voice any concerns/issues you with a particular Staff Member or in how they handled a specific situation. In addition to submitting a ticket, you’re more than welcome to contact their Mentor/Admin making them aware of your most recent situation with the Staff Member.

    Direct quotes in /Reports however, as said in my original post and in Caleb’s above, are not required. While it may not be required, a Staff Member uses their own discretion in deciding to provide a quote or not. Usually, this depends on case by case. For example, if I personally were to see a rule broken in another language, I would have the text translated accordingly and provide a reason in the punishment reason. Otherwise, I hardly provide a quote while handling /reports. The main reasoning behind /reports being less detailed and sometimes not including a direct quote is because, as said in my original post and in Caleb’s, there’s tons of reports that are submitted. We sometimes unfortunately do not have the time to include a quote of what a player said in the report. If it were required to quote every player that broke a rule within a report, I personally don’t think /reports would be handled in the most efficient and quick way. In addition to the short of time and constant influx of reports, every report, following its report ID, is accessible by any Mod+, and you’re more than welcome to reach out to any Mod here if you would like more information about your punishment. You’re also more than welcome to contact a Moderator+ on discord or on in-game.

    It’s very rarely that you will see a direct quote from a Forum Report, as said above by Caleb. There are also methods for Moderators on RP in finding the report to see what you did/said to break the said rule that you were reported/punished for. As an Ex-Reports Patrol Member, I can confirm that the methods of logging Forum Reports is very organized and precise. If you’re ever confused in regards to why you were punished because of a FR, you’re more than welcome to message any Reports Patrol Member and they will clarify what was said/done for receive your punishment. All Reports Patrol Members may be found here.

    I concur with the reasons that Caleb has provided in his response in regards to why he disagrees with direct quotes being mandatory for every /report and Forum Report punishments. There is indeed a high volume of reports being submitted every day. Whether that be a Forum Report or a /report. With that being a huge factor in processing reports, it would be unrealistic to expect a direct quote of what was said by every player in every single report. While it might not seem too hard, I agree in the point that it easily adds up with the consideration of hundreds of reports being reported/processed every day. In addition to the influx of reports being submitted, at times, there are several rule breakers in one report. Quoting every single rule breaker in a report would essentially increases the required time to process the report, and I personally think this would cause reports to get backed up.

    My response in my original post was very poorly worded (and I am very grateful to the person who pointed it out to me), so I do apologize for that. By the way you’ve described your situation, it seems that these punishments on your record could very well be punishments warranted from a /report or Forum Report. An easy way to determine the different between the both includes looking at the punishment reasons in /ph. A /report punishment will include “Report#2773277 - Reason”, whereas a Forum Report will include “Reason followed by the syntax [FR]”. An easy solution to figuring out a specific reason in why you were punished would be to message a Mod+/a Reports Patrol Member, either on Discord, the Forums, or in-game, and we’d be more than happy to give more details on the punishment. The example I included in my original response was inaccurate, and I didn’t intend to word it as it was. A perfect example was provided by Caleb in his response. A direct quote will not be provided by a Moderator if requested to do so if the offense included something as offensive/sensitive as Revealing Personal Information. Quoting what was said in regards to personal information is a cycle of putting others in danger, and should not be repeated.

    I’m sorry that you’re not very fond of this not being a requirement in processing reports, but it’s simply because there are so many reports sent in and so many incoming reports to be processed. As I’ve established above, I poorly worded my response. What I meant is, if you have any issues with finding a Moderator in-game, you’re more than welcome to message one via discord or the forums. We’re more than happy to extend our ways of communication to help you with your question and/or concerns. Unfortunately, we don’t have full control over response times all the time, as we could potentially be occupied IRL/busy with other things, but I can assure you we try our best to get back with the player ASAP.

    As far as the rules are concerned, I don’t make them, however “Mineplex Standards,” in regards to the rules ensures that the game is fair and of course, family friendly. Upon playing on the server, you come to accordance with the rules, otherwise, it’s expected that a punishment follows when you break a rule. If you have any ideas or suggestions in regards to the current rules in place, you’re more than welcome to message a RC member. All of the current RC Members can be found here.

    I again, do apologize for any confusion I may have caused and that’s why I wanted to reconstruct my post. At this time, I disagree with making direct quotes mandatory due to time constraints, influxes of incoming reports and the amount of rules breakers in one report. As I’ve said previously, I believe making it mandatory would overall prolong the processing time of reports, resulting in clogged reports.
     
    Posted Mar 2, 2021

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