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(HTRM) How to Restore Mineplex to its Former Glory - Part 1

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by clouddistrict, May 15, 2022.

  1. It’s all of these things, but isn’t limited to these things. This post is just the first of many that I will make. DMC alone will not restore Mineplex to its former glory, it’s just one step that must be taken.

    The conditions back then are different from the conditions now. The current system is trying (and failing) to repeat what worked in the past. We need something new.

    When I use populism here, I am referring to ensuring applicants are popular in the community. Instead of some staff having weak, negative relationships with the community, DMC ensures these relationships are strong and positive.

    We aren’t talking about fraud here. We are talking about the relationships between applicants and the community.

    Can you explain why not? DMC ensures that players have the best experience possible.

    Yes, the way people feel is entirely subjective, but is still important. Having strong, positive relationships with people will help to ensure that players have the best experience possible. And DMC ensures that applicants have strong, positive relationships with people.

    This idea comes after an analysis of the conditions. Where did you get the idea that I don’t spend time in Lobby-1? In fact, I find the people there to be perfectly capable of making decisions that DMC asks of them.

    This isn’t what DMC is. Players aren’t voting for who they think is most qualified, they are voting for who they like.

    People have the choice whether or not they want to help decide who gets staff. If announced as a restoration of Mineplex to its former glory, I believe that will interest people enough to participate since most people want Mineplex to be revived.

    I think that the overall job of staff is to ensure that players have the best experience possible. Police officers in the real world cannot be compared to Moderators on a block game. If you want to discuss the role of police in society, dm me but don’t post about it on the Mineplex forums.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted May 19, 2022,
    Last edited by a Moderator May 19, 2022
    GRGoodGame likes this.
  2. You cannot vote someone to have staff just because you like him, this is even worse than I thought then.

    No, you have not been in Lobby-1. You barely spend time there and you usually only spend time there to advertise this idea to then leave. In this day alone I have seen like 500 instances where a player would have not been capable of making a decision like this and you were not there to witness them. I spend much more time in Lobby than you do and many others who replied here do too.

    I am sorry but I cannoot see how you think it's okay to think your subjective opinion should have the power to not only impact a staff member but downright prevent him/her from getting the position. My subjective experience of a staff member should not impact his ability to be staff. Staff are not here around to please me, and I don't understand why you can't live with such a simple fact.

    You keep repeating this quote at the end of every sentence but there is literally no correlation with the two: People and staff have strong positive relationships with people, even more authenthic than the ones advertized in your doctrine.

    In order to do that they need to punish other players and disregard any social bias they may have. lol.

    You said people are not dumb and can easily spot a faker, so I kindly illustrated through a common sense example how it is not so.

    Refer back to my other replies, I have explained in much detail why it is not fair to simply have a staff member rejected or accepted simply because of their relationships or a public vote.
     
    Posted May 19, 2022
  3. Ah yes, the ol' "it is just a block game" argument that just undermines the point of the comparison. Police in real life & moderators most certainly have similar roles by definition, and that is to enforce the rules of the community to maintain order & peace. Police/Moderators can have good relationships with the community, but when push comes to shove, they must act with impartial bias; With your idea, there would be a severe increase in potential favoritism when it comes to applying the rules equally.

    If you want to go based on community votes, your idea would not be implemented as almost everyone disagrees with it & would vote against your idea.
     
    Posted May 19, 2022
  4. I don't usually make long posts, I much prefer instant messaging through Discord, but here it goes haha.

    Hey Seth, it’s been quite a while since I’ve seen you around but welcome back to the community!

    I’ve been watching this thread over the past couple of days and reading the replies that come with it. I typed up a few replies but then didn’t post them because they didn’t sound right to me, but I’ve decided to finally type up this reply and actually post it.

    Firstly I do want to say that while I appreciate you sharing your ideas for the improvement of the server, it seems like you’ve been a little out of touch with the community since you departed from the staff team a couple of years ago. This post is the first you’ve made since around that time, and I haven’t really seen you around in-game either. Now, this isn’t inherently a bad thing, but it does mean that you may be out of touch with what the members of the community actually want. The replies on this thread by members of the community whom have been active more recently to you also further back up this sentiment.

    The job of a staff member is to ensure that players do have the best experience that they can possibly give to them, you’re correct on that front. However you are incorrect in believing that the only/best way that can happen is by staff members (or potential staff members) having high quality personal relationships with the community. You were a staff member once, if we had expected you to be friends and manage personal friendships with more than 200 people, you would not have been able to meet those expectations. Honestly, almost nobody can do that, and people that can do that successfully are the exception to the rule. Along with that, factoring in that the staff members here are unpaid volunteers who are spending their free-time here, it makes it even less practical to expect this from them.

    For comparison’s sake if you got a job at a restaurant, a retail store, or most other general places offering jobs, you wouldn’t even be expected to have made strong personal relationships with the customers either before or during your employment with them, and that’s a job where you’re actually being paid rather than volunteering.

    Most staff members aren’t able to do anything about the majority of suggestions/critique that players offer simply because they don’t have the power to do anything about it. From what I’ve seen the past couple of years a majority of the suggestions/critique/complaints that I’ve seen have to do with the state of the server and the development of it. Something that nobody outside of the development and ownership teams are able to do anything about, even if we wanted to.

    However, staff members are able to give their genuine opinions over just about anything that they want to give an opinion over. Having an opposing opinion from what yours is, is not a dismissal of your ideas or concerns, they are reading what you are saying and taking time out of their day to reply to you when they’re not required to do that at all.

    I’m a bit confused by this statement. You were interested in what community members had to say but you only spoke to one community member that happened to be an ex-staff member? Why couldn’t you have employed the same level of quality that you’re suggesting and have gathered an entire group of the community and formed strong personal relationships with them to have gotten more data?

    If a staff member feels like someone is inactive on the team or that they’re not conducting themselves in a positive manner when interacting with them, they need to go to that person’s supervisor, full stop. We unfortunately cannot take any action when we’re not given the information, and you should know that as an ex-staff member.

    Circling back to ideas being rejected though, if this person is rejecting ideas and they are in the capacity to be able to reject those ideas (A sub-team lead, Admin, etc) then unfortunately the person who created the idea will have to respect that their idea wasn’t one that is going to be pursued further. I could(and have) come up with a million ideas, but not all of those ideas are something that I’m going to do anything with because not all of my ideas are good or reasonable. (I’ve had some pretty bad ideas that I thought were going to be good but after talking them out with someone I’ve realized they were actually crappy lol). Sure, it can suck to feel like you have a really good idea and then get it denied by the person who would be able to implement it, but that’s honestly just life.

    Ahhh Rules Discussion. Well to fill you in we had two different channels for Rules Discussion, one in the MPD(Mineplex Discord) that was public, and a private one in our Staff discord. Both of these channels were discontinued. These channels weren’t discontinued because the people coming up with suggestions were giving bad suggestions, but for an entirely different reason all-together. Both of these channels were toxic and led to many arguments where the focus on rules were lost and the arguments instead turned into personal fighting against eachother for their views. Now I will say that I was the first and only RC Admin that even attempted to give Staff and Players an outlet for their rules related ideas/suggestions, no RC Admin before me even tried to do that. However, it was not a requirement of my job to do this and it ended up being detrimental to the RC team, staff team, and community as a whole. I didn’t just decide to delete these channels out of the blue one day, I received multiple complaints from staff members / community members, I had a whole meeting with Dean over these channels, I had a long drawn out discussion with the RC team about them. The end result from all of that was a unanimous RC team decision to get rid of them.

    I’ve been here approximately 7 and a half years now and I do believe there is some truth to the competition contest statement, at least in the past a couple of years ago or more. When I was a moderator in 2015ish to 2018ish I did feel there was competition for subteam tags and joining teams and people bragging about that all. From what I have seen though, that hasn’t been the environment for at least a couple of years or so. Which also seems to be the experience of current staff/ex-staff that have commented on this thread for the most part.

    As the leader of many teams, sometimes it does get down to a couple of choices that are very similar in standing and we may have to make the decision based on a small difference of something (could be activity, behavior, etc).It’s normal to feel jealous when someone gets what you wanted, especially if you were extremely close to getting it but were just barely nudged out for it. I personally have been denied for several teams that I wanted and have felt jealous of people in the past because of that. However it seems a bit unfair, or even toxic, to chalk all of the effort someone else has made to them and undermining all of their work to claim that they were just wanting another badge for their profile, that’s just not what happens anymore.

    As for bias, every human is bias at times even in day to day life. However again from what I’ve seen our team leads/admins make a very good effort to recognize their biases and actively challenge them. Several team leads / admins even involve their other team members in the selection processes to have the most opinions and eliminate their own biases. For example, all of my teams operate this way, every single one (Staff Management, Rules Committee, and Discord Management).

    Since I believe you’re talking mostly about Java here, I’ll only talk about Java rather than Bedrock. For the most part, a majority of the Java community wants Java Mineplex to improve, including me and the rest of the staff team. However, I really hope that you or anyone else are not expecting us to ever be able to get back to 15-40k again. Minecraft as a whole, especially mini-games, are just not as popular as it once was. Even Hypixel, who has a monopoly on the Minecraft Java playerbase, only sees approximately 25k players on their mini-games at their peak of about 50k players for their server. The other 25k are playing Skyblock, which isn’t a mini-game and wouldn’t be the “population” that any mini-game server, including Mineplex, would be able to pull back in.

    As the Staff Management Admin, I would claim that I am one of the people that interact the most with the Staff Team in general, and with that also means I interact with community members that have any issues with staff members. Through my experiences I have seen players report staff members for doing their jobs, and some even go on the warpath to try to get staff members demoted(and a lot of those times was just because the staff member was following their guidelines and moderating the server - Issuing appropriate bans/mutes, giving out correct answers to questions, etc). As an ex-staff member I would expect that you would remember a bit what it was like, the harassment, players trolling you, death wishes, doxxing, etc. If every staff member were currently put up to a vote as to whether they should remain on the team from everyone that’s currently in Lobby-1 as I’m typing this, I would almost guarantee to you that we would simply not have any staff members left on the team.

    Because of my years of experience not only with staff but the community, I do not think that any system where the community has any type of “vote” or “final say” in who gets to be a staff member will ever work, and I am completely against any sort system like this. Also, we do not need to reduce the already low applicant pool even more. Additionally I will not be expecting any current staff member to start trying to have any “high quality relationship”s with any community members either. They are free to decide whom they want to be friends with, as long as they treat the community with respect and do their job when needed that’s all that is expected from them. I’m never going to tell them that they should have close friendships with random people because it would make them more popular.

    Also, when you first got Trainee, if I can call correctly (I’ve got a bad memory), I had no idea who you were. Did that make you less fit to become Trainee? No.

    Yes there are always going to be bad apples unfortunately. I really do urge you to report them to their supervisor if you believe something is wrong though as we depend on the community to tell us when someone’s doing something wrong since we can’t monitor all staff members all of the time.

    Staff who are not popular or who don’t interact a lot with the community are not bad staff. Trainees who are promoted to Mod have earned their promotion. Being popular is not a requirement to be a Mod and never will be.

    You say that the reason bad Trainees are promoted are because we can’t monitor staff members at all time, how would DMC be able to do that? If you claim it’s because the community is always there, then aren’t they always there now? We urge the community to come forward and report staff that are making mistakes, however if they’re not doing that now then how is that going to change with a fancy name? Honestly, it won’t.

    I’m really sorry you had a bad experience. My memory isn’t the greatest though and since you were last staff more than 2 years ago I don’t have much recollection on anything you may have sent my way. I skimmed through my DMs with you though and from what I could tell I pretty much always replied and took you seriously (as a lot of people can probably attest to since I reply to everyone as long as I don’t forget if I’m out of the house and checking my notifs xD). Dean however is a bit busier of a person and typically only will reply if it’s something he feels like needs a response. Generally it’s best to try to get into contact with the proper Admin first and only go to Dean if you have any concerns about an Admin.

    Very well said. Trainees are Moderators in Training, that’s the whole point of the Trainee trial. A majority of what Staff Members do is just not visible to the community. We very much do appreciate the community letting us know when staff members are making mistakes or when there are issues though, thanks!

    Yes I can confirm that ImposterK was a moderator in the specified time period. As for how they left or why you would need to ask them.

    Great point. A lot of staff members who don’t get what they want unfortunately process their emotions (rejection, jealousy, anger, sadness, etc) in unhealthy ways. Which is understandable, especially among the younger crowd, but still doesn’t make it right that they push the blame on the people that worked hard to get their positions. As a former member of Staff Management yourself, I know you’ve seen a fair share of both as a mentor.

    Pretty much exactly what I mentioned above. It’s a shame really that it happens.

    Yes, if a staff member or even an ex-staff member is feeling like there are issues that they want to discuss please bring it up to your supervisor(s). We’re here for you and open to discussions.

    Very good point, privacy is important, and I’m sure nobody would want their private application given over to random community members when it should stay in the hands of Recruitment.

    I am once again confused. You claim a popularity contest is good, but also claim that bias/favoritism is bad but they are two sides of the same coin.

    You make this claim as if the people that are on sub-teams only join said sub-team for the badge and then do absolutely nothing which is honestly really dismissive of the hard work that each individual on sub-teams and teams does.

    People that join sub-teams have specific jobs that keep the server running and ultimately help players to have the best experience possible. Reports Patrol? They process all of the forum reports. Mentoring Assistant? They assist the StM mentors in helping Trainees & Mods. Map Submissions Team? They go over the community submitted maps to get your map ready for the server. Translation Team? They translate our content into several different languages. I could go on and on for every single sub-team. They all have a purpose, and the people on them do a lot of hard work, for free, and it’s upsetting that you would shrink it down to them only wanting a badge.

    This. Unfortunately after a lot of staff members resign or get demoted they make documents or talk to the community about their experience and conveniently paint themselves out in the best light possible without actually owning up to their mistakes. A lot of the time they don’t publicly give the full picture because they don’t want their reputation to take a hit.

    Excellent point. Real, authentic bonds come from people wanting to put the time to work towards them by themselves without being told that it’s a requirement. Trying to force it into a requirement would only see people being non authentic and faking their personality to become staff.

    Honestly, not an unpopular opinion. I believe that a lot of current staff, ex-staff, and the community can recognize that the volunteer staff members on the server are limited in what they can do to actually help the server succeed. Like I said previously a majority of the current issues/complaints stem from things related to the actual server and it’s development which is not something volunteers have a say in. Sure having better staff members is never a bad thing, but this suggestion doesn’t seem like it will bring better staff members onto the team.

    Great point. A lot of people don’t know me on a personal level. I do try to be positive and friendly when interacting with others but unless I’ve told you real life details about myself, we’re not friends. That’s not to say that I don’t like you if you don’t know me, I find a lot of yall enjoyable to be around. You just don’t need to know me personally, or other staff members, for us to be able to do a great job.

    You’d be surprised. People can fake a lot of their personality for a long amount of time and it be a shock when their real personality rears itself. It’s not about people being dumb, it’s about the way the internet works. You don’t truly know someone on the other side of the monitor. Sometimes you don’t know someone well even if you know them in real life either.

    I’m sorry but if people don’t like volunteer staff because “updates are far and few between” then their dislike is incredibly misplaced. Volunteers do not control updates, the content of them, their frequency, etc. So disliking staff for this reason, is flawed. Anyway, a lot of people do dislike staff simply because they are staff. As an ex-staff member I’m sure you experienced people being rude to you for absolutely no reason other than the tag you had next to your name.

    Yeah, I rarely come out of vanish anymore because I’m constantly hounded because of the red tag next to my name. Even when I am in vanish and another staff member is present and not vanished, they end up getting a ton of hate.

    Yes, but not as much as I used to, and not as much as I’d personally want to. The reason being how severely draining it is on my mental health to do so most of the time. Just because I viewed/replied to your thread does not mean that we have a strong personal relationship though.

    I haven’t personally seen you in Lobby-1 regularly (the main lobby I’m in whenever I am on the server, though I am mostly in vanish), in years. You were last active in the MPD in August of last year which is the most recently I’ve seen you prior to this post. Your last post on the forums was 2 years ago.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    TLDR / Summary of my reply

    - Appreciate the effort that went into this idea but overall I just don’t agree with it.

    - You may need to spend more time around the community to get a better idea for what the community actually wants/needs. (From what I can tell all of the replies from other people have disagreed with the idea and If you look at the posts getting liked on this thread, they aren’t yours)

    - Staff don’t need to have strong personal relationships with the community and that’s not something I’m going to ever enforce. (Nor are staff bad for not having these)

    - The community is not qualified to decide who is accepted onto the staff team due to tons of personal bias. (Applicants should also have privacy during their process).

    - People on sub-teams do a lot of work and don’t deserve their effort to be reduced down to them wanting a badge that almost nobody cares about. If you’re looking for the “toxic sub-team badge competition”, then this sentiment is what’s actually toxic.

    - If you see any issues with Trainees/Mods, reach out to their supervisor with evidence of the issue. (The more evidence, the better. We can rarely take action without it because we unfortunately cannot blindly trust people at their word)

    Sorry for the incredibly long post & any typos in it, hope you all have a nice day/night! :)
     
    Posted May 19, 2022
  5. Amen
     
    Posted May 19, 2022
  6. Hey there!

    Like many other people have said, respect to you for wanting to improve Mineplex and starting some dialogue. Having said that, I don't personally agree that DMC is the right system to improve the Mineplex staff team. A lot of people have already discussed how it encourages a popularity contest to become staff which could turn out to be toxic so I would like to put forward a different perspective: Bedrock.

    As someone mentioned above, it's very likely if the recruitment process changed for Java, it would change for Bedrock as well. From what I understand, the main idea of DMC is to recruit staff that have positive connections throughout the community. On Bedrock, it is incredibly difficult to make connections with the community. First of all, the chat is very quiet on Bedrock- there is almost no discussion in the lobbies. I always say GG at the end of games, however, most of the time there is absolutely no response. If players are less likely to engage in conversations, it is much harder to build those connections.

    Secondly, as Bedrock has a much higher player count, it is very rare to bump into the same players again. Having said that, I happened to end up randomly running into the same player in Cake Wars on 3 occasions today! That has never happened to me in all the years that I've played Bedrock. However, because of this rare coincidence, we engaged in conversation. So what's my point here? The point is that because in games like Cake Wars or Sky Wars you can have up to 3000 players simultaneously, these interactions are very rare as opposed to Java where games have much fewer players and these interactions are more common. The only game where you will really see a fair bit of reaction is Survival because it's a completely different game mode. Another example is that on Java, most of the players are packed into Lobbies 1 and 2, however, on Bedrock players are spread out through many more lobbies and in those lobbies you don't have the same casual chats that you have on Java because Bedrock players generally just want to play the games and not hang out in lobbies. Again, this makes it hard to make the connections in the Bedrock community.

    What I'm trying to emphasise is that with so many players and the difficulties making connections, so many people who might be suitable for staff probably wouldn't get the position as they are simply unknown. From my own personal experience on the staff team, I didn't know the majority of people promoted to the Bedrock team, however, they made very good staff members. I'm also sure that the large majority of people had no clue who I was when I became staff. You can be a very active community member and you almost certainly won't be known by the majority of the community. Therefore, barely anyone would get accepted if they had to be voted onto the team by the community. Not to mention that with most Bedrock players not having a forums account, the voter turnout would be very low.

    I'd also like to address some of the points made about the staff team from my own experience. First of all: sub-teams. I personally never felt any pressure to join sub-teams and I found fellow Mods to be very supportive of each other when applying for sub-teams. For example, I applied for QAT a few years ago and didn't make it. Those that did make it never bragged about it and were very gracious towards those of us who didn't make it and encouraged us not to give up. I just never felt this idea of competition when I was on the team. Also, as other people pointed out if competition for sub-teams is seen as a negative, surely the popularity contest of DMC must also been seen as a negative. I'm not discounting anyone else's experience, however, I wanted to put my experience out there so that there are more perspectives to consider.

    The last thing I want to discuss is the idea of recruiting poor staff. During my time on the team, there was nobody that got promoted to Moderator that I thought didn't deserve it. I remember making so many mistakes in my first two weeks as Trainee because it is much harder than you can ever imagine, however, that is why there is a 2 month trial with a considerable amount of support from your supervisor to help you become a good Moderator and it's so great seeing others who made mistakes as Trainees learn and grow from their mistakes into competent Moderators. That is what I believe makes a good staff member, not their popularity within the community. Another point you might want to consider is the bias towards those that voted for someone to become staff. They might feel their position is owed to them and therefore take a more lenient approach to enforcing the rules with them than with others. Yes, I'm sure voting would be anonymous, however, you could easily tell someone you voted for them.

    Once again, huge credit for getting a discussion going and although I don't agree that DMC would improve the quality of staff and revive Mineplex I look forward to seeing your future ideas for improving the server.

    Have a good night,
    MC Minium
    (I promised I'd keep this reply brief- oops!)
     
    Posted May 19, 2022
  7. Can you elaborate on this? What reasons do community members not trust staff for that applicants need to compensate for?

    You're viewing "providing the best experience possible" in a very specific, narrow lens. I'm just going to have to disagree with the fact that rebuilding these relationships has to be before I become staff, why is it not something that can be achieved WHILE I'm a staff member? Again, I just think it's wrong that someone has to be held back by their past because of the opinions of others.

    I think people just need to move on, clearly they're already going to have a negative bias which may cloud their vision and see that the individual has matured and it most certainly shouldn't hold them back from being a staff member.

    I would rather Recruiters be hung up on knowing the rules than popularity, which thankfully is the way they are currently. You've referenced many times that building strong relationships, something I would like you to define for the sake of clarity in your idea, is key to providing the best experience to players but you've been constantly disregarded the fact that there are plenty of ways staff can provide a good experience without being popular in the community.

    Again, this is incredibly vague and not well defined. Can you define this?

    1. 25 is the amount of votes your idea initially listed out. Plus if you're saying you'd prefer a set number of likes and your idea is supposed to bring on more staff, why are we turning those 3 away who met your requirements?

    2. What I'm saying is there is a ton of inconsistency, last week those 3 got rejected because they were "less" popular compared to the others, but still sufficiently popular and the following week they would have been accepted based on how liked the other staff were?

    3. A week seems long, I don't think it's in anyone's interest to prolong the recruitment process when what a lot of people actually want are staff who are readily available to handle hacker requests, etc.
     
    Posted May 19, 2022
  8. I saw you in lobby-1 a few weeks ago trying to rally us up for this forum post, and I told you it would never work. You did not believe me, but look where this post is going. Yeah, we all want a Mineplex revival, but you need to take your ideas in a different direction.
     
    Posted May 19, 2022
  9. ive been kind of reading this thread for the past few days (sorry there's no way im reading every post) and here's pretty much what i've been thinking:

    Mineplex bedrock players want survival games back, skywars kits, bug fixes, and changes to the shards and gems system. none of that's gonna happen without more devs (more devs on java would probably help too) which is why its the #1 thing we should be advocating for imo.

    idk what i think about DMC, however, to my knowledge, you are suggesting that we have and election between 2 applicants every time we want to add someone to the staff team, and then whoever gets more votes becomes staff? why not every time we want to add someone to the staff team, we just have people vote yes or no for that particular person? that would be way better
     
    Posted May 19, 2022
  10. If the standard of "better" is "slightly less awful", then better it is. If the standard of "better" is high quality staff, both methods are awful.

    The community opinion shouldn't mean much, some amazing staff do stuff behind the scenes and don't really chat with the community much, for various reasons.

    A poll has many, many flaws, most of which have already been identified in other replies.
     
    Posted May 19, 2022
  11. In my opinion, we need to sunset java right now! It’s wasting recourses that could be used on the MAIN SERVER.
    The java server could barley hit 300 players on a great day
    We can’t even do survival games anymore.
    If we just sunset the java server and used those recourses for bedrock, it would thrive way more!
     
    Posted May 20, 2022
    sqaghett likes this.
  12. Java still brings in a ton of money from Immortal. Money that can help fund bedrock. It would be a bad business decision. Plus Java and Bedrock have completely different devs, so it’s not like devs are only focusing on Java instead of bedrock.
    But anyways, this is a discussion for a different thread.
     
    Posted May 20, 2022

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