• 2492 Players on Java
  • us.mineplex.com
  • 10930 Players Online
  • 8438 Players on Bedrock
  • eu.mineplex.com
!
Attention Internet Explorer Users
To have the best user experience on our site please consider upgrading to Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox

How Mineplex Killed Mixed Arcade

Discussion in 'Server Discussion' started by beeb, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. IS IT ACTUALLY DEAD?

    Go to Mineplex right now. Log on and queue for mixed arcade and let me know if you join a game other than:

    - Death Tag
    - Dragon Escape
    - Paintball
    - Micro Battles
    - Turf Wars

    And then, let me know if, after you complete a game of one of those five things, you actually switch to another game, as "mixed" would suggest, or just literally stay in the same lobby, as it always does for me.

    In other words, by queuing for mixed arcade, you are actually queuing into the most active arcade game at that moment. That's it, as far as I can tell.

    You can queue for other games! Yes, you can! But they're all dead. Maybe you could get into one in the quiver, but the rest are dead. And you say, "Dude, it's because those games just aren't as popular! They don't generate the same amount of interest!" Do you know what used to generate the most interest? Mixed arcade. Mixed arcade was the best. Mixed arcade was the most popular game on the server, next to cake wars. That's how it was. That's how legendary it was. But why are there no players now? How is it dead, if it used to be the best?


    NANO GAMES

    Nano Games is fine. It really is alright. Personally I feel as though developer energy could have been better spent on maintenance, like gwen, because at that time we kept being told "gwen is being worked on every day", but basically anyone in this community can tell you that it's just a staff member's job to say stuff like that, and that it's all basically BS. Gwen was dead at that time and we sorely needed it. Instead we got Nano Games. I'm quite sure that the developers had fun making these little cute tiny little games, so I feel bad trashing on it, because I had quite the time with them for a while, but it feels a little bit hypocritical to tell your community that you're removing games because they're unpopular and that other games already fill the hole that it left, and then trying to popularize Nano Games, which is literally there to fill the hole that Mixed Arcade already had completely covered. Mixed Arcade totally had it. Somehow, no one thought that adding Nano Games would split the playerbase, or if they did, they decided that the fun of making Nano Games was still worth whatever came next.

    So we had a split playerbase. That's just infuriating, to hear the Mineplex gods tell us that having two of the same game makes no sense, and then being okay with adding "Quick". That's Bawk Bawk Battles, except the challenges are different. Please! Update Bawk Bawk Battles instead of doing this! Add new Arcade Games instead of doing this! Imagine a world in which we started getting monthly new arcade games to be added into mixed arcade, and then imagine how much that would boost interest! A monthly "NEW GAME: [GAME NAME]". It doesn't even have to be monthly it just has to be a decision on the part of the lead team, or whoever is in charge, to invest in what the playerbase cares about.

    But they didn't add new games to mixed arcade. Since I started playing Mineplex in 2014, I cannot remember a time when a new mixed arcade game was added.


    [BAWK BAWK BATTLES AND SNEAKY ASSASSINS REMOVED]

    This is just dumb. Any time I ask a staff member why these two games were removed, I get "they weren't popular enough". Guess what? Mixed Arcade was popular enough! Mixed arcade is the reason that we get to play all of these unpopular games, because they actually showed up in the rotation! It doesn't matter if the voting statistics say that some games are less popular than others if they are all there.

    Bawk Bawk Battles was my favorite Mixed Arcade game. What do mineplex developers say to a player like me, whose interest in the server as a whole relies on the existence of a few important games? Apparently, they say, "It wasn't popular enough." That's not good enough. That's not good enough to remove a reason to log on next time.

    What am I supposed to say to this? https://imgur.com/704fiQj

    It's not just about the logistics. It's the despair of everything you came to the server for in the first place being gone. You can't say anything to justify that. Those people are never going to log on again. Removing games will remove the section of the playerbase that was loyal to those games, and by adding games you are making the commitment to keep them, or risk losing a section of the playerbase.




    BUTCH

    No one that I've ever talked to actually likes Butch, except, miraculously, every single staff member. But think; for an average newbie experiencing the effects of Butch for the first time, they'd think that the server is broken because they don't join the lobby. "It's so bad that it takes like two minutes to work!" No, I don't care at all if it took a lot of work. It's great that you guys put this much effort into making an improvement, but it just wasn't necessary in the first place, and the only thing that I can imagine that it would affect is the playerbase, just basically by shrinking it when they are frustrated that the server doesn't work in the way that they used to know. Some of my friends left in frustration after Butch was added. Like, eternal-ranked players. Level 60+. They left because of this update.

    It also happens to affect one other thing:


    MIXED ARCADE IS DEAD

    I don't know how it happened, but the developers just completely messed up the logistics of how to queue up with Mixed Arcade when making Butch for the first time. The merging of mixed arcade servers and individual minigame servers is actually pretty clever, except that it doesn't consistently change games each time. And joining a game that's ready to be played also sounds good on paper, except that it just queues you for the most popular games; the ones that they basically put on the front page. But that's not what mixed arcade exists for. Mixed arcade is the biggest opportunity to try out the unpopular games that Mineplex would otherwise have to drop. It's where players can chill out with the quicker and less committed minigames. It's the best place for Mineplex to put a new game idea; you get mixed arcade players on the new game, and players who want to try the new game on mixed arcade, thus generating interest not only for the new game but for the majority of the minigames that the server has to offer. But mineplex missed that opportunity. They killed the playerbase with Nano Games, when there really was no reason to, in an attempt to turn it into the exact same thing. And then they removed the games that they had the opportunity to keep because of the advantages of mixed arcade. And then they killed mixed arcade itself by accidentally restricting it to the four or five most popular games, and doing nothing about it.


    NOW

    Can it be fixed? I don't know. The best possible course of action by the lead team is to bring back some of their removed games. I've already tackled why "it was unpopular" is just not a good reason for removing them in the first place, and unless I hear any other reasoning, nothing will change my mind in that adding back the old games would bring interest to the server. Apparently mineplex doesn't want to split up the playerbase, but they clearly do not practice what they preach. Adding Nano Games was a mistake, and it's hard to just remove it now that it's in cycle. Some players log on for that, too. And Butch was also a bad decision. It would bring more players if it was at least revamped to immediately respond to queuing by putting players into the lobby, and to fix how queuing for mixed arcade works. I'm not fully aware of the logistics on how much Butch actually gains the server in terms of efficiency, so at least making it more accessible to players would be incredibly helpful to the health of the server. And it's the same for keeping games like TDM (which was loved by anyone I ask about Champions), in that it might be more profitable to keep it out of cycle. But for Mixed Arcade games? It literally doesn't matter. If you get mixed arcade running again, you can have a population on every minigame. No need to remove anything; you get bawk bawk battles and sneaky assassins at a minimal cost.


    AAA

    This isn't even just about Mixed Arcade. This is about the state of the server as a whole. The management team or whoever it is that decides what gets worked on just fundamentally don't understand which parts are important. I do like to see that they are now hiring for work on Gwen, though; I am glad that they are demonstrating that they can acknowledge what the playerbase wants. But the only reason that this happened is because there were constant complaints about Gwen for over a year. If I look at it through a lens cynical enough, then I might say that they did it just to keep up their image, and for a staff member to say, "See? They're even hiring for work on Gwen!" in an attempt to diffuse the complaining. Instead of listening, the staff waits until we just give up and stop asking. But a week ago they decided that the complaining on anticheat was just too much. So they did this.


    Sorry if I genuinely upset someone, or if you actually just hate me while reading this, I'd much rather just give a call to action on the developers that will never read this to:

    -Alter Butch so that Mixed Arcade actually works. I'm not really an experienced developer of any kind, but one way of fixing it is to just give mixed arcade its own server id like it used to and then merge individal minigame lobbies into it.
    -Bring back Bawk Bawk Battles and Sneaky Assassins (this is the easiest thing to do)
    -If Bawk Bawk Battles isn't added back, then at the very least put it into MPS rotation
    -Acknowledge your mistakes. That's saying "Gwen is fine" when it's not, and building distrust with the community vs saying "We messed up but we're going to take it more seriously now" and actually showing the community that you care about your own server and want to work with them to make it better

    But as far as I can tell, these things won't happen. The devs didn't even care to try playing mixed arcade, and if they did, then they didn't care to fix it. And this is because they have placed their priority on Nano Games instead. The notion that Nano Games should replace Mixed Arcade is repulsive to me. And the replacement has already happened. There's a shell of mixed arcade still there, pretending to actually exist, but it's just dead. And that's not the fault of the playerbase not caring about it; that's the fault of the lead team not caring about the playerbase.

    And when it comes to acknowledging mistakes? According to the constant gossip about how terrible the owners and admins are, that won't happen. Tell the truth and they'll have nothing to gossip about.

    This took longer than my godern english essay, but I really do care about this server, and I hope that the people in charge care, too. And if you actually read this whole thing, then thank you for your time. Especially if you're a staff member. You get this a lot. There's hope :)

    - beeb
     
    Posted Jul 11, 2019
    xUmbreon, jjzdragon, Jaekub and 5 others like this.
  2. Alright, this was a pretty long post but as I feel that it contains a few strong points, I'll stick to them and keep this reply relatively short.

    Mixed Arcade is just a few "popular" games: I actually haven't played this mode since returning to the server a few days ago, but I couldn't agree more. With the voting for the next game in place, certain games are often repeated and therefore reduce the diversity of the game choice significantly. Edit: After trying it out myself, I've got to admit that the way Butch cooperates with Mixed Arcade just doesn't make any sense. The voting used to be in place before, so please ignore this part of the post. Similarly;

    Removal of "unpopular" games: In the Mixed Arcade rotation, it really makes no sense as it literally costs nothing to keep them in rotation. Other games that have been removed in the past had to be removed due to the high prices of hosting multiple servers for the minigame. Mineplex is a business that needs money to keep existing, and cutting down on paying for the hosting is unfortunately something that cannot be avoided if keeping the game alive simply doesn't pay off.

    Releasing "Nano Games" instead of updating GWEN: Unfortunately, I have to disagree with everything stated that is related to this point. There are three divisions of the Development team, where one is for backend coding, one is for games and one is for cosmetics, if I recall correctly. The point is, the development of GWEN is completely unrelated to the development of new games because they are projects assigned to different divisions. What I would agree with is that maintaining older games should be one of the priorities and that hiring should be aimed towards developers like the newest GWEN dev who can keep the server in balance. Which brings me to the next point:

    Balancing the community's needs: Some people miss Wizards. Some people miss TDM. Some people miss Bawk Bawk Battles. Many people would miss e.g. Super Smash Mobs. In reality, Mineplex is a really large place and without initiative, the server is simply doomed to collapse. Some parts of the community are more vocal about what they desire, but it should never be the community that sets priorities for the leadership - it's much harder to manage the server than one would think. At the same time, if the LT were directly involved with the community just a little bit (by playing games, being in a lobby, replying on the forums occasionally) this server would have been a better place today.

    The Butch system: It seems like I have the privilege to be the first non-staff you've met that likes the system. In all seriousness though, I think it's definitely superior to the game lobbies from before. The only problem is that with games that require many players to start, people might get bored and exit the queue. In reality, the game wouldn't start any quicker before, and since there aren't any major bugs with it currently, I can't see why one would protest against it.

    Adding new games to Mixed Arcade: Yes! That's one point I strongly agree with. With new minigames added to the roster, Mixed Arcade would receive some love again and possibly improve the general popularity of the server as well.

    Overall, I think it's important that you decided to make this thread, especially such a long one. In order to improve, there will have to be less praise and more criticism at times. While I don't support everything that's been said, some things had to be recognized as issues and I hope others see them, too.
     
    Posted Jul 11, 2019,
    Last edited Jul 12, 2019
    beeb and SpitefulNick like this.
  3. Hey! Thank you for replying I'm really glad that it got a bit of attention already.

    I'll give some extra cents to some disagreeing points-

    "Releasing "Nano Games" instead of updating GWEN is an oversimplification of how it actually goes on behind the curtain"
    You're probably exactly right about this, given that I basically know nothing about what goes on underneath other than "some things are released and some of us complain about some of them", which basically goes right to the next one

    "Balancing the community's needs when the community is disjointed, and at least one player somewhere complains about anything"
    Again I really don't have much of a problem with this. I think I did say in my OP that the lead team basically just chose to prioritize Nano Games instead of Mixed Arcade, which is just a shame, basically. But the notion that certain prioritizations are wrong because of the community's wishes is a bit thoughtless on my part, because you're absolutely right in that any kind of community is generally going to be divided in a lot of ways, especially one in which there are younger players who take the tiniest issues very seriously, and suddenly the community as a whole isn't taken as seriously. So I don't know. Personally I consider the death of Mixed Arcade in general to be a total tragedy, but there really is no objective answer, like "Which minigame is more important?" When it comes to that, It's just "pick one and move on, hopefully everyone else will move on too"

    The Butch system

    Congratulations for being person numba one! ;)
    My distaste for Butch, speaking generally, is that it just isn't as intuitive to use for some people, purely because of interface design. A tiny line of text that says that you're queued for the game is just not as convincing as literally putting you into the lobby. I have more tech-ignorant friends who literally cannot tell whether or not they are queued for a game, or how to get out of queue, because there is no waiting lobby. But that's kind of splitting hairs in that just by changing the interface, not a lot has actually changed, and the actual core of how it works might actually be insanely efficient. I just have no experience of that so it's not even worth debating, because honestly it probably is more efficient. BUT, the one actual functional problem that I have with Butch is the way it treated my baby Mixed Arcade. I cannot emphasize enough that this is the number one reason why Mixed Arcade is dead. It's not even the playerbase being split, it's not even some of the games being removed, it's Butch. And it can be fixed! But it just hasn't. It's been months now and the queueing system for Butch demonstrates that the devs in charge fundamentally do not understand the appeal of Mixed Arcade. For random readers checking in on the bolded text, check out the beginning of my OP.

    Overall this is a pretty good summary of my points! And I can basically get behind everything you said. Often when I criticize newer changes to the server I hear the same old points about the logistics of Mineplex making money, even when they don't apply in the case of BBB and sneaky assassins. I'm glad to see some acknowledgement that some of it really is just pointless but you also poked quite a few important holes in my arguments.

    Thank you for responding as kindly as you did! I hope other readers will follow your example :)

    -beeb
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jul 11, 2019
    Thenorn likes this.
  4. 1: I love that it allows you to Queue for more than one game at a time.
    2:Server merging is a life saver considering that in the past you might have 2-3 game lobbies w/ 1/2 the amount of players to start one game and this speeds that up pretty effectively.
    3: I hate that it ruined Mixed Arcade. Whenever I would get bored of dying in PVP games due to a poor setup that I can't fix because I don't have the money to I'd go to this and it was my safe haven that I dont have anymore.
    It wasn't staff that did this, @ToonBasic ( The new Gwen Dev.) applied for the job and got it. So good for him, but the main problem is the staff weren't actively looking for somebody to work on it.

    P.S. I will say that this was the longest Forum post I've ever seen and I've written a few "long posts" myself
    https://www.mineplex.com/threads/bring-back-regular-sg-better-version.48857/ NOTICE ME! please, this post must not die. Sorry for being off note, but hopefully this post, (yours [technically both, but yours mainly]) will bring this to the attention of staff.
     
    Posted Jul 11, 2019
  5. I'm finding all the people who like Butch woah!
    1. Yeah I didn't mention this but it is in fact one of the advantages of organizing queuing like this, and they certainly pulled it off. I don't use it myself but I'm glad other people appreciate it
    2. I actually didn't think much of it in the first place, but it is pretty nice. I always liked the manual intuition of joining a server with a specific number of players; me and four other friends used to game the system in cake wars, because by being the seventeenth, thirteenth, ninth, fifth and first players in a lobby, we would all end up on red team lol. And I have funny memories of yelling at a low-playered lobby to join a different one. Butch did the yelling for me ;)
    3. Writing my original post I definitely had in mind that Butch was pretty terrible but this has kind of given me insight into the inherent advantages of organizing queuing this way, and I would frankly be very impressed by how well thought-out it all was if it weren't for this. It straight-up destroyed mixed arcade because they just didn't think at all how it would actually work in action, and haven't fixed it since.


    Damn! That is a bit disappointing that they never really took the initiative to do it in the first place. I still consider it good news, though, that they at least saw the application, and thought, "yeah".

    And it's an honor to have that trophy lol. I'll give a reply to your post later on ;)

    -beeb
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jul 11, 2019
    Jango_55 likes this.
  6. Our staff team is aware of the community backlash resulting from the changes to Mixed Arcade following our update to our queue system. Ideas and Production have processed the complaints and ideas resulting from these changes, and while I can't guarantee if or when a fix is inbound, the issue is being addressed at the moderation and community outreach level.

    Hopefully this helps clear up your concerns.
     
    Posted Jul 11, 2019
    beeb likes this.
  7. I really want old Mixed Arcade back, but Butch kind of killed it. Yes, maybe this system would work for older games to somehow gather player count that would be scattered across couple of different lobbies into one, but I mean, why was it necessary? I don't really know, I have somehow of a neutral opinion on Butch. It is good and bad, but who cares when it works. I enjoy playing games and it doesn't really matter to me.

    But I really want old Mixed Arcade back, all those games that are awesome to play, like One in the Quiver, Evolution, Sheep Quest, and sadly unavailable Sneaky Assassins, and more games deserve some love too. Players who have enjoyed those games including me cannot play them now and earn gems. Only way to play them is through MPS, or a really huge party that would be able to play some of the old games.

    I hope we get old Mixed Arcade back.
     
    Posted Jul 12, 2019
    beeb likes this.
  8. brb calling the police, this is brutal. mineplex killed something.
     
    Posted Jul 12, 2019
    beeb and 1603 like this.
  9. i dont want to read this essay, but an easy solution to this problem is to play in a MPS or just play on another server thats not dead
     
    Posted Jul 12, 2019
  10. This is actually some pretty helpful information, however this actually does not clear up my concerns. From what you have said, I gather that the people in charge actually know exactly what is going on, but they don't consider it an issue. This is not good news. It tells me that the people who have decided not to fix this issue never bothered playing on the server themselves to understand the appeal of Mixed Arcade, which was basically my outlook writing this post: that they know exactly the state of their server, but that they fundamentally don't understand the appeal of their own games, and thus can't fix their issues properly. But I don't know a lot about what happens behind the curtain. They might be insanely busy, but I have literally no way of knowing. Like I said in my OP - there's quite a few things that staff have been told to lie about, from what I've heard. But you would deny that even if it were true ;)

    my concerns are unrelenting

    -beeb
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jul 12, 2019
  11. If you'll read my post closely, you'll notice that I clarified the concerns about Mixed Arcade had been addressed and processed at the moderation and community outreach level, not at the production and development level. Low-level members of the staff team, such as certain Moderators and Senior Moderators, process community complaints and concerns for review by members of production and development. My post doesn't say that production and development don't care; on the contrary, it says that my colleagues and I hear your concerns and have done what we can to implement the changes you're requesting.
     
    Posted Jul 12, 2019,
    Last edited Jul 14, 2019
    beeb and luuuuuuuuuuke like this.
  12. But, but that’s literally the point of Butch, to be able to queue for games whilst doing other things, such as talking with people in the lobby, playing gladiators, and the like.
     
    Posted Jul 12, 2019
  13. Honestly, the only problem I have ever had with Butch is that when it was initially added, game lobbies were removed and it felt WAY too different for my liking. But soon after the launch, game lobbies were added back, and I have had no issues with the system since. I am by no means an expert on game queue systems, but I am a seasoned Mineplex player and it is my honest opinion that Butch works better than the previous game-join system. Not all players will agree with me, but I prefer having a dynamic system merging servers as necessary and managing a queue of players to fill the most amount of servers to the optimal player level as possible.

    In terms of Mixed Arcade, I think the game needs to be fixed. I see the issue (as OP wrote about) that when you queue for Mixed Arcade, it will only send you to an MB, DE, DT, TW (etc.) server because these are the only Mixed Arcade games with active player bases. I think this would be a very easy fix for Mineplex, though. If they would just allow Butch to add dedicated Mixed Arcade (MA) bungee servers, that cycled through all the Mixed Arcade games without preference to particular MA games, I could see this solving the issue of Mixed Arcade being 'dead'. I know I would enjoy playing on the Mixed Arcade rotations, just like the old days, and I'm positive the demand exists on the server where at least a couple of these MA servers would constantly running and have players in them.
     
    Posted Jul 13, 2019
    beeb likes this.
  14. You are absolutely correct. Back in the day before the queue update, the Mixed Arcade was easily one of the most played games. Featuring an assortment of games in a rotating fashion, the mixed arcade was loved by many as they got to play games that were previously not popular enough to be standalone and got to discover new games that they might find fun and play more often.


    Again, this is correct. With the introduction of the Queue System, the game with the most queued players is the one picked. Sam, the former Java developer, did say there were some more factors that lead to choosing a game such as how long a player has been waiting, but so far, I haven't seen any of those factors play into choosing a game, so I'm not sure if my memory is bad or the factors that lead to choosing a game aren't weighed in enough at the moment.

    I definitely agree with you here. Mixed Arcade worked because people wanted to play a random assortment of games. The only problem with that nowadays is since Mineplex is only at 3k players, there isn't enough traction for allowing players to choose servers themselves leading to player split amongst several servers. For example, back in the day when Mineplex was at 40k, almost all games started very fast and there were enough players to support choosing servers. Therefore, any Mixed Arcade player could scroll though the Mixed Arcade selection and choose the game that pleases them the most. Nowadays, a 3k player base can't support that which is why channeling everyone to one server and allowing voting is the best option.

    The Butch Queue system definitely wasn't thought out when it came to the Mixed Arcade. The games are all dead as you've said here and I know a friend that literally loads up alts with his friends just to get OITQ games going because they're so impossible with the current system.

    The developer who made Nano Games did enjoy working on the game. That's why we all got a few updates with it: because he was genuinally motivated to update it alongside his other duties like updating the Queue System and such. If I remember correctly, the developer who worked on Nano Games never really touched GWEN because it wasn't his code. That was more for konsolas, but he went inactive then resigned so that's why GWEN has just not gotten an update in so long.

    I don't think I ever really thought of it that way. Yes, Mineplex did remove games, but in a sense you're right. They did fill the hole of a once-removed game with a whole new game. To be honest, though, I'd much rather prefer Nano Games over BBB. I absolutely hated BBB mostly because once you got into a game, you had to play the full game which took a long time and got really boring. With Nano Games, players may join at any point creating a much better BBB. I feel like it's a bit ironic in a sense because BBB could have split the Mixed Arcade player base just as easily, but it didn't. I think BBB and Mixed Arcade wasn't a problem because BBB just wasn't popular enough to get games going, but now that Nano Games has been introduced and is actually good, the games compete with Mixed Arcade and that creates the problem we see right now. It's really hard to come up with a good solution, either it's remove Nano Games which took a lot of effort to make, or remove Mixed Arcade which would remove a much larger player base. I personally don't want either removed since both would be killing off a player base.

    That would be an awesome world to live in and I wish it were true. But Mineplex just simply doesn't have the development caliber to make games once a month even though this is a cool solution. Maybe once every two months, but then I feel like the games would start getting stale and people wouldn't like them. Games these days in Minecraft aren't too creative as a whole.


    That is very true. Companies tend to look at statistics a lot and this was no exception.

    If were being honest, I'm fine with Butch. When it started out, a lot of players got mad over the fact that pregame lobbies were removed. Since I'm in the GI discord, I learned about the removal of pregame lobbies beforehand and already gave my feedback so when it released I wasn't too mad about it. Therefore, I was fine for sacrificing pregame lobbies for extreamly faster start time like version 1 of Butch presented. In the first version, you could literally switch from the end of one game to Prepare Time (time when you can't move and the game is "loading") in less than 10 seconds. Unforunately, a lot of players wanted pregame lobbies instead of more streamlined start times so the compromise is what's currently implemented. I think Butch is fine as is and doesn't need much change. "But think; for an average newbie experiencing the effects of Butch for the first time, they'd think that the server is broken because they don't join the lobby. "It's so bad that it takes like two minutes to work!" Just isn't exactly a valid argument since new players wouldn't know there even used to be pregame lobbies in the first place, and there's "waiting for players" on their action bar which seems pretty intuitive to me.

    I mean, updates happen and things get changed. If players want to leave over it they can but I think the majority were aboslutely fine with the update and stayed. You can't generalize a few Level 60s to the whole player base.




    I'm going to wrap up this repsonse before it gets too long.

    I agree with the rest of your post for the most part. I think there needs to be a middle ground between the current system and the old system. I'm all for bringing back the semi-old system where players were able to vote on games. To fix the current problem, after each game, a completely new set of games should be presented to the players in the specific lobby on which to vote. Therefore the old system where players were exposed to new games would still work.

    The last thing I'd like to point out is developers aren't the ones making all the choices when it comes to what they do. Make sure to address the "Design Team" or "Project Manager" instead of addressing improvements straight to Developers because not all of them can implement whatever they want without instruction with a lead first.

    Thanks,
    Techno
     
    Posted Jul 13, 2019
    beeb likes this.
  15. Sounds to me like you need a better line of contact to production and development lol. Seems as though things could be moving a lot faster than they do, but of course there are some obvious cons of making the people at the top listen to hundreds and hundreds of concerns daily. But I'll definitely admit that I did not fully grasp what you were talking about. :)

    However I also specifically made a point not to say that they do not care. They have to care. I instead leaned on "they're highly misguided" because of how slowly and poorly Mineplex often appears to bring out updates. Note the word "appears" though; there are still good things, it's just that I consistently find myself frustrated with new changes and glitches.

    Just as an example - Sir Sheep's recovery move in SSM was glitched suddenly and by using the second double jump, players could fly. The solution on the development side was to remove the double jump. Not to fix it, not to replace it, not to even update the move description so that it doesn't say "gives you a second double jump". They just removed it. That recovery move is now the worst move in the game, and Sir Sheep cannot effectively recover now.

    I'm glad that staff at the direct contact level are aware of this at the very least, though, and I'm glad that you guys are putting in effort to bring this higher up. But that you say that you guys have "done what you can" is its own concern - if you did everything that you are able to tell development what is going on, and yet they still don't know, then I might say that the system of informing the lead is inherently flawed. And without them logging on and experiencing what players experience firsthand, it seems as though the ability to change the server for the better is stunted.

    Not even in a condescending way I really appreciate that you're continuing to participate in talking about this. I had doubts in whether or not staff members would be comfortable talking about this on the forums, and not only have you proven to me that you can certainly handle it, but also that many others have made a point to shine a light on it already. So thanks! :)

    It doesn't matter whether or not you like Butch. I don't really have a problem with someone liking Butch, because it has its advantages. But it messed up on Mixed Arcade and it really is overdue to change.

    This is basically spot on. I don't have much to add other than what's been said already but I do want to shout out my appreciation to you for reading my essay and giving your cents. Plus there's staff member points :) congrats on trainee <3









    Damn I really wish this weren't all crammed into one post but for the sake of not double-posting I'm gonna talk about some of the points the Wiz Techno made as well. As I did in one of my previous comments, I'm basically going to focus on the points I made that you had a problem with, or at least had something to say other than "I absolutely agree" (even though I highly appreciate that) otherwise this would be pretty boring to read.

    Thenorn had already pointed out that I had basically made the assumption that everyone was working on everything, when in reality there are dedicated jobs from each person, and the quality of a particular section is reliant not as much on the priorities of those in charge, but in the quality of the team responsible for that particular aspect of the server. So I immediately concede on that.

    But I actually really do want to make a point to appreciate the guy who made Nano Games. Even when I disagree with it as an overall server decision, he clearly had a lot of cool ideas and had a really fun time with making it. And it's pretty damn polished, too.

    I actually totally forgot that BBB had a phase in which it was separate from Mixed Arcade. That was also a pretty dumb decision but I'm glad that they made a merger. That was exactly the right decision to take with it. I love BBB to death and I love the keeping score aspect of it. Much like Quick it did those tiny games and then made a tournament out of it. And honestly a few of the games on Nano Games and on Quick would have worked quite well on BBB. Imagine BBB getting an update with an absolute load of minigames lol

    And I definitely agree with you in that it doesn't make sense to remove Nano Games or Mixed Arcade at this point. But by now, they've basically already removed Mixed Arcade back in the Butch update. And from seeing the comments on this thread, Mixed Arcade is pretty universally appreciated, so it's a real shame, and it's not even intentional! It really needs to make a comeback.


    Adding new Mixed Arcade games - if it weren't for Nano Games, I'd pretty much agree with you exactly in that there probably isn't enough energy or creativity in the developers to be able to consistently develop new minigames at that speed. But seeing the amount of work and content that was put into Nano Games is exactly why I called for people to envision this. For months, there was consistently new content and polish into Nano Games that added to its original package of beta games. It doesn't matter if it remains consistent forever; if, for the period of time that Nano games took to be finished, the devs were pouring creativity into Mixed Arcade minigames, we could have had that world. But I can see how a developer would want a more casual creating space; one in which they could develop much smaller ideas that aren't interesting enough to be a standalone, but enough to be grouped with ones of a similar caliber.


    As I've said before I really don't have a problem with people liking Butch because a lot of it is just the interface changing. But there are more important points made in here.

    About the "average newbie" - I'm talking more in particular about regular players that are committed enough to come on relatively frequently, but not committed enough to withstand a significant amount of frustration, and basically what I was saying is that the addition of Butch could hypothetically push them over the edge and convince them to stop playing. But that's really kind of a stretch and it's reasonable to call it a weak argument as I'm basically creating a situation in which Butch is bad, pointing at it, and saying, "See? Look at how bad Butch is!"

    As for how intuitive the in-queue action bar is; again, it's up to taste, but in my personal experience I know people who consistently have trouble operating it, and had no trouble operating the previous versions. One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite game devs is essentially "If you think your alert icon is too big, it's not big enough. People are stupid and you have to do a lot to get their attention." The line of text is easy enough to miss that I'd say it's not as intuitive. Of course, once you know how it works, it's easy to operate, but that doesn't really count as intuitive. Intuitive would mean you can see how many people are queued, because you can actually see them. Each one of them. Instead of being told that you are queued, you are put into an actual waiting room. That's intuitive. "You are waiting" is not the right way of showing someone that they are waiting. Make them wait. That's my personal design philosophy, at least. But I really got a bit too tangled in Butch's design, when what I really want to make a point of is its issue with Mixed Arcade. That's its real relevancy here. And we basically already agree on that so it makes sense that you'd cover the rest that I had to say about it.

    Yeah this is a completely fair weak spot to point out. I made a few too many excuses as to why Butch is worse when it's really not as devilish as I originally attempt to make it sound. RIP my level 60 ppl though

    I consistently had to brainstorm a synonym for "the big boy who is in charge" when basically writing every comment and the OP because I really don't know who exactly can do what at the top, I just know that the "top" does stuff and for the most part I am trying to address them as a whole, because if I don't know who it is in particular then I may as well act like I know what I'm talking about to some degree lol.




    Thanks to everyone who is commenting on here and keeping the discussion alive! I'll be continuing to respond to new comments as long as I can. Special thanks to Techno for putting effort into making a thorough point-by-point analysis and making some new points. Glad to see it :)

    -beeb

    edit: changed a period into a comma lol
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jul 13, 2019,
    Last edited Jul 13, 2019
    Wiz_Techno and AppleFTW like this.
  16. One thing I would like to point out is that Mineplex just hired a new Anticheat developer
     
    Posted Jul 13, 2019
  17. Members of Ideas Team, especially the presiding Community Management Senior Moderators managing the team and members of network Administration and Leadership, are the most direct link to our Production team our network has. As a member of IT, I work with my colleagues to boil down the gist of what the community wants and either deny it, citing rationale from Development, Production, Administration, or Community Management, or I process it for Community Management who will then forward it to network Administration and Production. Production and our Leadership are very interested in what the community has to say, but at the end of the day there are a myriad of reasons why we can't (or won't) honor every request the community has. Rest assured our players' opinions and requests don't fall on deaf ears when it comes to network Administration; it's my understanding that my colleagues and I have done everything we can to honor the numerous community requests to reverse the adverse affects recent network updates have had on our popular Mixed Arcade gamemode.

    Our Network Administration and Leadership are more active in the community than initially meets the eye. I can personally assure you every staff member is personally invested in the community, and everyone except our network executives interacts with the staff team and community at some level-- regardless of how visible they may or may not be.

    Please don't hesitate to contact me with any further questions, comments, or concerns pertinent to the staff team's involvement in the community, approach to the issues surrounding Mixed Arcade, or the process behind implementing change from the community-level.
     
    Posted Jul 13, 2019
  18. I saw this on the front page, and I actually included it in my OP. Nothing but good things to say about it, I hope it works out well :)

    That's very nice to hear! And very well said! I still think that this change is long overdue, but it's a good sign that, in the process of becoming a finalized change, it has broken through the noise. Hopefully it resolves, if not soon. My concerns about it not getting through still exist but this has certainly given me more ease of mind than I had expected to gain when making this thread.

    Your input has been super valuable my guy! That chain of events that leads to change on MP is actually super helpful and I'll be basically using your post as reference forever now ::)
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jul 13, 2019
    ClqssyOwl likes this.
  19. I mean, you could use the exact same argument when talking about the old queueing system. Any new player would probably have more trouble figuring out the GUI and clicking the emerald servers than just simply clicking on the NPC.

    And yeah we do. It's been an ever-existing problem since Chiss left the team. It's improved by a large amount since the move to the new website, but there's still a way to go.

    Thanks
    Techno
     
    Posted Jul 14, 2019
  20. We've heard you guys loud and clear! The old rotation for Mixed Arcade is back, along with some of our other mini-games like Milk the Cow, Sneaky Assassins, Squid Shooter, Tug of Wool and Wither Assault. You'll be able to queue for a mixed arcade server and it'll go through the entire rotation of mini-games, you can also queue for them separately like normal. More information can be found here. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns!
     
    Posted Jul 30, 2019
    MiladKhan and Jango_55 like this.

Share This Page