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How is Skeletal Horse A tier

Discussion in 'Super Smash Mobs' started by Larial, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Coming from the perspective of maining this kit I've just kind of wondered. I feel like he's better than every kit in A tier and arguable top of A+. Landing all your melees during bone rush and then kicking at the end isn't easy to do perfectly but it's definitely not as difficult as playing spider optimally and you take an unfair amount of damage and get launched far enough away to where the horse can kite to get bone rush again. I get it's a useless kit without a key cooldown playing reactively with skeletal horse I don't see how it's not a higher tier kit. It's sort of the horse's game to lose in a way. You miss the kick somehow or waste your bone rush and you just die but the thing is if you have half of a braincell you're going to hit it a lot more than not. I feel like the only kits I truly lose against are creeper and enderman. If you think cow or witch is better than horse you're on something man idk. I think it's low S tier.
     
    Posted Mar 3, 2021
    Mitchy and EpicEnderDragon1 like this.
  2. [FONT="Open Sans",Arial,sans-serif]ye I agree skeleton horse is rly broken def a+ tier[/FONT]
     
    Posted Mar 3, 2021
  3. Because 95% of people don't know how to successfully dodge it. The abilities are also very strong.
     
    Posted Mar 3, 2021
  4. Yeah it definitely is way better than people give it credit for. If you do the math, Skeleton Horse heals the most damage per second in the game (Basically just a combination of armor and regen; creeper might have 0.4 regen but it has very low armor. Skeleton Horse on the other hand has above average regen, 0.3, and very good armor, 6.5). What this means is, if you ever have less health than an opponent, it is completely worth it to sit behind an obstacle for however long you need to, to regen. You outregen every kit in the game so there are no worries about being out regened.

    On top of being a tank with higher regen than 70% of the other kits, it has a very good approaching move, Bone Rush. If you time it right, there really is no dodging this move, and it can do absurd damage. Bone Kick is an unavoidable melee move that perfectly mixes with Bone Rush to raise the damage potential of this kit significantly.

    The only weaknesses I can see this kit having is 1. Larger hitbox (meaning sometimes it will just not be worth meleeing someone since you'll get combo'd, shouldn't be too of a deal considering you'll only need to bone rush bone kick repeatedly), and 2. Ranged kits, although you have an approach move so you'll mostly be able to deal with these, you could still get messed up by a ranged kit if you do it wrong.
     
    Posted Mar 3, 2021
    SpitefulNick and Mitchy like this.
  5. Because horse is broken. I once had a horse run into me with bone rush while meleeing and take away 9 hearts- and they successfully did this every time. Most horses are really easy to work around their attacks, if you know what you're doing. Which is probably why it has a lower rating. But I still feel that the power of their attacks is too much if you do happen to get hit.

    Even if you don't play horse as aggressively as the person I just mentioned, it is still exceptional at camping and stalling games, which is another reason why players direct their hatred towards it.
     
    Posted Mar 3, 2021,
    Last edited Mar 4, 2021
  6. I understand where you are coming from but skeleton horse can be defeated easily if you can bait out abilities, or can keep your distance. Even my magma cube can beat 99% of horses in pub games, magma being second worst kit in the game. Spider can cancel bone kick KB by just holding shift, and then just meat it with melee. I personally would place it around Low B-c tier. It is no where near A or even S tier
     
    Posted Mar 3, 2021
    1dragoneye likes this.
  7.  
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 4, 2021
  8. For those who don't understand why skeleton horse heals a lot of damage over time, armor reduces the amount of damage you take so it makes sense that 1 heart on iron golem is going to absorb more damage than 1 heart on chicken, in math terms.

    Health = Damage * DamageReduction

    Health / DamageReduction = Damage

    So if you have a health value and the kits damage reduction, you can then find its equivalent value, ie: The amount of damage it would take for them to lose that much health.

    Minecrafts damage reduction from armor is calculated as (1 - 0.08 * armorvalue)

    Skeleton Horse Damage To Die: 41.666 = 20 / (1 - 0.08*6.5)
    Skeleton Horse Damage Healed Per Second: 0.625 = 0.3 / (1 - 0.08*6.5)

    Spider Damage To Die: 35.7 = 20 / (1 - 0.08*5.5)
    Spider Damage Healed Per Second: 0.446 = 0.25 / (1 - 0.08*5.5)

    Iron Golem Damage To Die: 55.555 = 20 / (1 - 0.08*8)
    Iron Golem Damage Healed Per Second: 0.555 = 0.2 / (1 - 0.08*8)

    Creeper Damage To Die: 29.41 = 20 / (1 - 0.08*4)
    Creeper Damage Healed Per Second: 0.588 = 0.4 / (1 - 0.08*4)

    So as you can see someones ability to heal damage is not always obviously gleaned from their regeneration value, it's a combination of the two.

    Skeleton horse in fact heals even more damage over time than creeper, while also having a higher starting max health essentially, iron golem being quite close in that regard as well.

    That being said I think skeleton horse is rated low because the ability to hit bone rush on better players who can triple jump isn't that great.
     
    Posted Mar 4, 2021
    RedBlueGamer and Mehmoodie like this.
  9. Because once you know the ins and outs of horse or it runs out of skills, it immediately becomes garbage.

    You're obviously seal clubbing
     
    Posted Mar 17, 2021
  10. I mean, no? You do 8 hearts to like every kit with full combo and you can kite CDs could explain your argument more here?
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 25, 2021
  11. They're referring to the small pool of players who know the ins and outs, such as meleeing the horse and knowing CD timers. The main reason why people lose against horse is because they go in for the melee after baiting abilities, thinking that the horse in question can't melee back. IF the horse can melee, you'll have a tougher time beating it if you can't maintain constant cps, tracking, and aim.
     
    Posted Mar 25, 2021
    1dragoneye likes this.
  12. I said that because if you're decent and you fight people at your skill lvl or even a little higher you'd realize that the kit isn't much better than the kits above it when people know how the kit actually works.

    Also, many kits can do 8 heart combos and kite CDs. Such as, Slime, Creeper, Enderman. Enderman can easily do 8 hearts to most kits with fast block twice and melee in 4-5 seconds. Slime can Rocket, slime slam, melee, run, rocket, melee, slam and repeat, and can easily do 8 hearts of damage to most kits in 4-5 seconds. I've been blitzed by Slimes, Guardians, Cows, Creepers just as fast as Horses.
     
    Posted Mar 25, 2021
  13. Why are you shielding horse so much, the kit is obviously way better than people thought it was back then, I def believe it’s not A or below anymore
     
    Posted Mar 26, 2021
  14. I'd hope you're not implying that it took several years for the community to realize that the Horse is powerful. Because people thought Horse was good "back then" and it hasn't changed. While you can move horse above certain kits, It isn't S tier by any means, tier lists especially in smash are not only based on the kits strength and abilities, but matchups in tournament settings with players of similar skill.

    I'd bet if you had 2 really good players, one mains horse and one mains Any of the kits in S, or A+ and maybe Cow. The latter would either win just as much as the Horse main or even more often.
     
    Posted Mar 27, 2021,
    Last edited Mar 27, 2021
  15. The only kit you mentioned that can reliably hit as hard as horse is Enderman. I don't think Horse is better than Enderman. If you want to bring Slime and Creeper into this sure. Slime does so much KB you're not comboing anything into it so I fail to see that. No ones going to wait right next to a creeper and tank an entire explosion and Enderman plays very different but you can compare the damage imo.

    I don't think it's top of S tier. It has some I'd place it infront of Skeleton. But honestly even if you disagree with that which I think is an arguable position I think you're insane if you think it's the same tier as blaze snowman witch and cow. You can pull out the high skill level + matchups argument but Skeleton Horse has pretty good matchups into plenty of the higher tier characters, it's more map dependent than anything actually since your vertical sucks and you can get camped. In close quarters you don't really get much of a say you're just going to get chunked or die. I don't feel like you've ever gone against a horse who does that. It's not 16 hearts in a combo it's 8 full hearts of damage through chain armor. That's not A tier lmao.

    EDIT: Why can't the community be unaware of a kits power. That happens all the time in competitive games.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 31, 2021,
    Last edited Apr 1, 2021
  16. You don't "Think" Horse is better than enderman but it actually is. Pro Enderman and Pro Horse. Enderman would win, Pro Endy only getting slapped by the kits above it in the tier list and maybe Skeleton. Creeper I could admit depending on the kit it's playing against it isn't much better, but a creeper is a counter for horse and would usually destroy a horse if player skill is equal because it can only melee or use abilities and cannot combo as well against it. And Slime does too much KB to combo anything? That's gonna be a no from me dawg, I used to main slime about 6 years ago and still can sort of play it, Slime is one of the easiest kits to combo with. My skills are always ready and I can just rotate through rocket and slam similarly to horse can, Idk since when knockback stopped anybody from combo'ing if you know how to close distance.

    And I have gone against horses who chunk, I am literally a Horse main and I have done that before. I have also fought against good horses whos done this. If you are better than the horse and your kit isn't hard countered by horse you shouldn't have a problem with it. I also never implied the Horse wasn't powerful, because it is. But the entire game is unbalanced and many kits are "too powerful" in many ways. My point is really that it's an A-A+ tier kit, It isn't S.
     
    Posted Apr 2, 2021
    1dragoneye likes this.
  17. I'm not sure if I like "if you're better than the player and your kit isn't counter by it you'll win" argument though. Yeah lol. You would you know what other kits I can say that about? All of them. I stand my ground on high A+ low S tier. Maybe we can agree Horse has less options than some of the S-S+ tier kits. Spider is the most overloaded in the game. I don't think less options = less power though.

    I think we can settle on A+ as common ground. It fits a lot better in the tiers above it than A tier I'm sure we can agree on that at least.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 5, 2021

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