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GI - Block Hunt Update Proposal

Discussion in 'Block Hunt' started by landay, Nov 3, 2020.

  1. yeah do not add hunter lb in the lobby. i used to be someone who wanted this, but that is a terrible idea. the entirety of that leaderboard is corrupt. there are only a few players who haven't cheated on there. Even the players who are "legit" haven't gotten all of their wins fairly. This is because you can easily just boost off of ESPers/ghosters. Unfortunately only one player on that list actively leaves games with known espers; and most people know who that is. The best solution for that problem is to simply make esping AND ghosting a higher ban time. 4 hours is a total joke. In the rules, movement hacking (which is sev 3) which quote "completely ruins gameplay" which I mean let's be real; ghosting and or ESPing completely ruin gameplay too... so wouldn't that justify it to be sev 3?
     
    Posted Nov 18, 2020
    MrShadowq likes this.
  2. Good point, I think you're right. ESP and Ghosting (especially ESP) bans should be way longer and severity 3. This would make people think twice before using their hacks.
    About the leaderboards - yeah, I agree that most players are known ESP users. Although adding hunter leaderboards in-lobby is a cool idea and we shouldn't give up on it. Maybe some kind of stats reset?
    ESP had a big impact on hunter top 100, so after successfully preventing ESP we could start from the beginning - reset all hunter statistics. I know, this would be a brave decision but the esp'ers really ruined this game. What do you think?
     
    Posted Nov 18, 2020
  3. Fair point, but it's still ruining it for the people that didn't ESP/Ghost. Me, you, cake, and frp are the only ones that didn't ESP for a majority of our wins, but other espers definitely influenced those stats. Mp should be filtering accounts like #1, #4, #6, and #10 since they just ESPed all their wins, but there's some ambiguity to the others. I still very much dislike being under an esper wins-wise, but that's up to mineplex to fix that issue
     
    Posted Nov 18, 2020
    BlueFlash, frp and MrShadowq like this.
  4. Yep, we only wish for the compass to be removed if ESP is fixed as well.

    With the recent rule change, friendlying is no longer allowed in BH. Unfortunately, arrows likely cannot be made to go through other Hunters. SSM has been asking for something similar (a change in how arrows interact with entities), and it does not appear to be possible. Preventing Hunters from standing on Hiders to troll is the most we can do.

    Radar Hunters are keeping their radars, its simply the item used being changed to prevent the block-glitching.

    Knocking a radar off of the height will still be possible. Although they may not die from it now, their lack of mobility means they will still take a while to get back up. The Feather Falling 2 is mainly intended to allow them to chase Hiders that decide to jump down, as radar is intended to track Hiders.

    It would be the same number that gets moved now (based on the Hunter:Hider ratio).

    Although there would be ESPers on the leaderboard, I do not think it would be fair for legitimate Hunters to not have a chance at being seen in game. Although you leave the game when there is a known esper, I also do not think it is fair to hold others to that same standard. It is not as though they are going out of their way to follow the ESPer for the wins, they simply end up in the same lobby. It is like ending up on a Micro Battles team with a hacker and getting carried; it wasn't in your control, and you shouldn't be forced to leave just because they are there. This same standard can be partially applied to the Hider leaderboard as well. Despite someone being able to map exploit their way to the leaderboard (although this has not happened), those who are legitimate should be able to see their achievement.

    Unfortunately, the punishment for ESP/Ghosting is not something that falls under GI's territory. Although I personally push for its punishment to be changed, the decision lies with RC.
     
    Posted Nov 18, 2020
    CZArkolan, mab8400, frp and 1 other person like this.
  5. "Although there would be ESPers on the leaderboard, I do not think it would be fair for legitimate Hunters to not have a chance at being seen in game. Although you leave the game when there is a known esper, I also do not think it is fair to hold others to that same standard. It is not as though they are going out of their way to follow the ESPer for the wins, they simply end up in the same lobby. It is like ending up on a Micro Battles team with a hacker and getting carried; it wasn't in your control, and you shouldn't be forced to leave just because they are there. This same standard can be partially applied to the Hider leaderboard as well. Despite someone being able to map exploit their way to the leaderboard (although this has not happened), those who are legitimate should be able to see their achievement.

    Unfortunately, the punishment for ESP/Ghosting is not something that falls under GI's territory. Although I personally push for its punishment to be changed, the decision lies with RC.[/QUOTE]"


    Here's where I see a problem with that arguement, and it isn't actually within what you are trying to say, but rather RC's inability to notice that purposely (please notice the word purposely) playing with hackers is quite obviously a way to stat boost without being punished. I could, right now, become friends with 3 different bhoppers (who could then get alts when they are banned) and play Cake Wars and boost my stats. Obviously, this is an extreme example and I would of course be seen by the entire community as a low-life of some sort.. which I wouldn't exactly disagree with. This happened with one player who for the purposes of not getting this comment taken down; I will say is named "Derrick" who did this to get hundreds of wins off a well known leaderboard-esper. I do know certain players who play right now that purposely go onto the hunter team when there is an esper so that they get free wins. Now of course this isn't the case for every player on the leaderboard who is legit; but the point is that what you said is basically the same thing as saying an lb CW player who boosted off of bhoppers a chunk of the time- shouldn't be taken off of the list because they shouldn't be held to that standard. You can disagree with that of course, but from my perspective that doesn't reflect the true amount of wins that a player would have; nor is it ethical. I've gotten plenty of wins in games where espers have essentially won the game for me that I otherwise may not have won; it still happens to me because new players who do it (that I haven't previously known) aid me in games before I actually realize what they are doing. I personally think that it isn't a matter of standards, but rather just ethics. However, I don't fully disagree since what you are saying isn't realistic like you said. It's already very difficult to find lobbies that are completely clean; which is why we NEED higher ban times for people who cheat in this gamemode. The same would go for Minestrike or PB which have the same issues; MS already has a corrupt leaderboard and I would hate to see that happen to ours. I'd be willing to put my ego aside in this case since I would be up there.
     
    Posted Nov 19, 2020 at 1:30 AM
    crazygeek516 and Jaek like this.
  6. I agree with resetting the hunter stats.
     
    Posted Nov 20, 2020 at 1:50 AM
    MrShadowq and Grant138 like this.
  7. With games changing over time, almost no leaderboard is reflective of someone's "true wins." Take the recent update for example. Someone may have been amazing at Skywars v2, but may be nowhere near as good in v3. Every update changes the game, and people have received wins that no longer apply to the current variation of that game. There used to be a bug in BH that awarded a Hider win to the last surviving Hider, even if the Hunters won. This added hundreds to thousands of wins to the Hider leaderboard, and was something that people could (and did) abuse by running to their deaths as soon as they were last to get a quicker win. This bug has been patched for a long time, but it still affected the leaderboard in a way that a new player cannot replicate. If you want "true wins," the leaderboards would have to be reset every time a game receives an update (in BH's case, including map updates).

    To be perfectly honest, I personally wouldn't mind the Hunter leaderboard getting reset (or at the very least, archived with a new one put in place) when we receive the update with these proposals, as ESP and Ghosting will be made drastically harder, and the f3+b bug (which has also added countless wins to the Hunter leaderboard, as it is abused by at least one person nearly every game) will be patched. After the update, it will be drastically harder to get Hunter wins (and much more skill-based through pattern recognition and map memorization). Once the update goes through, the Hunter leaderboard will simply not be reflective of the game anymore. However, this is not something that will happen. At the time of writing this, 68 players have 1000+ Hunter Wins, and roughly 500 have 100+ Hunter Wins. Although all of these wins were gathered in a state that will no longer be reflective of the game, it would be unfair to simply remove the proof of dedication that players have had to the game. The only people who should ever have their stats removed are those who directly cheat.
     
    Posted Nov 20, 2020 at 3:25 AM
    mab8400 and ClosedEyesOfLove like this.
  8. me too
     
    Posted Nov 20, 2020 at 8:26 AM
    frp, mab8400 and JN_PlayzMC like this.
  9. I wonder what experience we both have in common.
     
    Posted Nov 20, 2020 at 2:42 PM
    frp and Grant138 like this.
  10. me too
     
    Posted Nov 20, 2020 at 3:01 PM
    frp, mab8400 and JN_PlayzMC like this.
  11. me too
     
    Posted Nov 20, 2020 at 3:03 PM
    JN_PlayzMC and Grant138 like this.
  12. ueah the junter leaderboard is just espers that's what nicodamj sais before so
     
    Posted Nov 20, 2020 at 4:09 PM
    mab8400, frp and Grant138 like this.
  13. you are totally right. I think I agree with you; and that maybe the leaderboard should start from 0 (people keep their current wins though ig) this way we'll have a fresh start once the game is mostly legit.
     
    Posted Nov 20, 2020 at 9:02 PM
    Grant138 likes this.
  14. Hey,

    These changes are sounding fantastic. The only thing I'd recommend would be this:
    For the taster used by the taser hunter, the taser itself should act similarly to how the paintball sniper gun works. Not by needing to sneak; but, rather, by having it be able to travel at relatively fast speeds.

    The taser hunter's description specifically says it's meant to stop hiders trying to run away; however, the current laser travels even slower than the speeds at which a hunter sprints. This makes the kit completely useless outside of when they know where a hider is hiding...

    -Dan
     
    Posted Nov 21, 2020 at 8:51 PM
    crazygeek516 likes this.
  15. Hey!
    I really like the changes listed and think it'll improve the game dramatically, especially the ESP/Ghosting prevention. I think with Block Hunt the biggest issue has almost always been ESP. There are ways to give yourself an advantage without using external modifications, for instance, if you use F3 + B (hitboxes) you can sometimes see hiders who are solidified as a block because of their hitbox showing. Modifying the information sent to players (not sending entity data for solid-state hiders) should help prevent this I would think, although I've never really had experience with that.

    The issue with increasing the ban time for ESP / Ghosting is that there's no real way to differentiate between using an external client for ESP or having another player spectate and ghost for you. That's the issue. If you increase the ban time for both ESP / Ghosting you could be falsely banning players for using an external modification when in reality they just had someone spectate for them. With the changes listed ESP should be LESS of an issue, obviously, it still might exist when players move around (noted as a potential issue in the proposed fix). Now, if GHOSTING (having a player spectate and find all of the hiders) gets patched due to the spectator changes then I would have no issue with increasing the ban time of ESP to sev1 hacking. Now, the ban time for ESP is 4 hours default because it's considered gameplay trolling currently (because you can't differentiate between hacks and ghosting). But that generally stacks up fast for repeat offenders, but it would stack faster if it got boosted to sev1 hacking after the update.

    In my mind, hacking is hacking and I don't see the need to separate between severity one (ESP/Tracers) and severity two or three. There are really only a couple of things that would stick out to me. For instance, with recent changes Lunar client has become an unapproved mod, meaning it's punishable via severity one hacking (1-day ban default), I really don't ever see a world where Mineplex should be punishing players for 40+ days for using lunar client when it isn't intended to be a hack (although the issue probably lies with it trying to emulate 1.7 but work with 1.8). To me, I do think everything else should be on the same level. I don't see a reason to separate between using tracers, auto-clicking, or bhopping. If players are going to go out of their way to get an advantage whether it be as small as using tracers to find people in blockhunt or bhopping in cake wars they should be dealt with accordingly. You shouldn't get a slap on the wrist for cheating and then get to come back the next day to try it again. That doesn't necessarily make sense to me. Another issue I have is that while players may self-report using Vape (ghost client) ESP they only get banned for a day if there is no evidence of any other type of active module. Which doesn't really make sense to me, even if you only are using a certain module (maybe you only use Tracers) you should still get punished for more than 1-day as there is evidence you have the capability to turn on other modules (Bhop or KA). Now, punishment times are something for the owners to decide, hopefully, once the Microsoft/Mojang account migration begins the owners will take a more hard stance against cheating. Account migration will most likely end blatant cheating (people getting on NFAs and bhopping) but I imagine closet cheating would still be an issue, so if ban times are increased players would become more skeptical of cheating/getting caught on their main accounts if they can't get on an alt to pass the time. (If it does get implemented I'd like to see Sev 3 boosted to perm (but require staff evidence), sev 2 get boosted to 40+ days (with stacking ban times) and move ESP/Tracers up to a higher ban time).
     
    Posted Nov 24, 2020 at 3:49 AM
    crazygeek516 likes this.
  16. I completely agree, all forms of Hacks are unfair advantages that ruin peoples' enjoyment of games. Some do more than others, but since people have to go out of their way to Hack, they should all be punished at a high severity.

    Unfortunately, it is very hard to catch repeat offenders for ESP/Ghosting, so the ban times rarely stack. As people learn about the game, they learn about how the BH community reports cheaters. This leads to them being better at hiding it, to the point most of the leaderboard players were found to have cheated at least once. Repeat offenders are very common, but they get good at hiding their cheating. Due to this, it can often take days to gather enough evidence on someone, resulting in people not bothering to report them (since the report time starts off so low, people don't want to bother). Ghosting and ESP can be differentiated in reports, though I will admit it is hard to do so. I go into some detail about these issues here: https://www.mineplex.com/threads/es...or-an-increase-in-punishment-severity.170530/.
     
    Posted Nov 24, 2020 at 1:41 PM
  17. Well I don't think most people actually care that much about whether its ghosting or hacking; in the end it ruins the game the same, and the punishments should match each other. The specifics of Mineplex's rules make it easy to let people off with a soft, insignicant bans that essentially give them a "please don't do it again but we won't ban you longer".
     
    Posted Nov 24, 2020 at 3:59 PM
    frp likes this.

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