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Gathering random intel

Discussion in 'Super Smash Mobs' started by Cabob, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Abstractdragon

    Abstractdragon

    snowman cant utilize that 7 melee damage it has ... if the skeletal horse even slightly goes in the air, snowman's passive no longer works, and therefore it goes back down to 6. skeletal horse also has more armor, on top of the bone rush.

    pig wouldnt be a problem to skeletal horse. bone rush fully negates all of the kb, putting the pig in a really bad spot (pig isn't generally fast enough to avoid bone rush; it's pretty fast)

    in terms of golem and cow, id say it probably just barely loses to golem and is mostly neutral with cow. yeah it cant match the speed of wolf/spider or the range of skeleton/zombie, doesnt mean it isnt viable. with skeleton horse's above average armor, good melee, and good melee-orientated abilities, theres no way it can not be viable. it has to be viable, even if only by a little bit.
     
    Posted Mar 5, 2019
  2. leo_thya

    leo_thya

    With it’s busted damage, Skeleton Horse can even beat the best spiders. Skelly Horse is definitely viable.
     
    Posted Mar 5, 2019
    PapiKirito and ChrisPKStar like this.
  3. DaGourmand

    DaGourmand

    It doesn't matter if the snowman is doing 6 damage or 7 it can get insane combos on the skeleton horse even when the horse is using bone rush and when the horse has used up it's abilities that have long cool downs then the blizzard combos will destroy it in mere seconds. Even though skeletal horse has decent armor it's hitbox is MASSIVE and its melee attack is the same as snowman's when it isn't on snow. It gets DESTROYED by golem and cow. Golem has better armor and attack with three high damage abilities compared with just one for the horse. They both have huge hitboxes. Cow's combo of stampede, angry herd, and milk spiral is far superior to bone rush and it has greater mobility and speed. The best thing skeletal horse can hope for is to bone kick them off the edge. I can see that skeletal horse might be viable but it definitely is low tier.
    Skeletal horse isn't beating a top tier spider, the deadly bones won't hardly do anything and the spider just needs to wait for them to use up their bone rush then go in and it's dead unless the horse is some sort of melee god with perfect aim. It might be at the fringe of being viable and certainly is better than chicken or magma but I personally think it's low tier.
     
    Posted Mar 5, 2019
  4. Pupett

    Pupett

    [​IMG]
    Skeleton Horse has average to more decent cooldowns on its abilities, especially when compared to cow, which has a 13 second cooldown on just angry herd, hindering the amount of combos it could be pulling off. The hitbox for shorse is big, but it’s long, not wide, meaning when you’re meleeing you’ll be having it approach you head on, not exposing its wide side for some free melee hits. The hitbox is mostly a “disadvantage” (if you’d even call it that) against classes like wolf or spider than can direct double jump and toss it around like a meat bag (even though it has none). Cow and golem can tank most of its combos okay, sheerly out of armor, but the disadvantages stop there. Shorse can outregen both golem and cow with its 0.30 regen, and the deadliness of it’s combos don’t come from just bone rush damage. It comes from the fact that Shorse practically gains super armor, with the ability to melee through it, and constant background damage locking the opponent in place to take those melee hits. (Like a moving blizzard combo lol) Along with this it can follow up with more melee into a kick, or just back off and get bone rush again, because similar to firefly (I believe), the cooldown begins upon activation, meaning it’s on cooldown even when bone rush is active. This is what makes its abilities so quick to refresh. Against snowman, you can’t be “blizzard combod” to oblivion just because of deadly bones, which put the amount of combo time snowman has on a timer if it wants to get close. Along with this, bone kicks disjointed hitbox can reach far enough to counter an attempt to begin a combo, resetting it back to neutral (just with 400% Kb). The most that snowman can do against skeleton horse is stall, because if you’re being smart, you’re not going to waste a bone rush when you’re getting blizzarded just to cover distance. (You could even bone rush in the face of snowman trying to blizzard melee combo you just to force them to take melee damage and bone damage, spiking them down into potentially some deadly bones). Bone kick even reaches through ice path; you don’t even have to be on the side where the snowman is to kick it off. Lastly, the reason why skeleton horse is considered high or top tier is because of its polarizing matchups especially against lower tier classes. It has good stats, great abilities, isn’t hard to use, and great matchups all around, only suffering harshly against classes that are above it in the tier list (which is to be expected with a class like spider around). But it can still hold its own against some of those classes.
     
    Posted Mar 5, 2019
    ChrisPKStar and Cabob like this.
  5. DaGourmand

    DaGourmand

    Cow might have longer cooldowns than skeletal horse but it has great speed and takes little knockback, has good armor and attack combined with stampede and IMO is the most underrated kit in the game. Golem is extremely tanky and deals massive damage with both melee and its moves and take very little kb which makes it harder for a bone kick to take a stock.

    Snowman can hit the skeletal horse and rack up damage even when it is taking damage from the bone rush. The deadly bones can be annoying yes but they usually don't do much damage but it can break up a combo because of the kb. They also can be dodged if you jump in mid air. The skeletal horse usually kills me when it knocks me off using bone kick or bone rush and then follows up with the other ability when I try and Ice path but that is only really effective if I'm under the map trying to get back up because if I'm recovering from the side I'll angle the ice path upwards forcing the horse to go up and around the ice path with bone rush and preventing the ledge camp with bone kick unless I am too far out that I have to go straight horizontal with the ice path.

    Regarding the hitboxbeing long, I understand the horse is going to try a head on approach but it isn't hard to get to its side, and when you do get to it's side you are rewarded with a lot of free hits.

    Another problem with the skeletal horse is it has no ranged abilities so it has to engage in a fight to do damage, similiar to wolf. But wolf is vastly more powerful. Skeletal horse has to constantly be up close with kits so it has a hard time when it is at low health and the opponent is at high health. Even snowman and spider have attacks that allow them to chip away at the opponents health from a further distance although this happens to be a weak point for snowman as well. When skeletal horse is low it has to run and hide while it regens without being able to damage enemies like almost every other kit in the game can do. In a game with 4 players it is left extremely vulnerable when it has used up its abilities. I often strike when it used its abilities on someone else and get to its side when it isn't paying attention to me. Skeletal horse is stronger when it is down to a 1v1 but if all 4 players are decent it can quickly go down to 1 or 2 lives and end up facing someone with 3 or 4 lives at the end of the game especially a more ranged kit. And with no ranged abilities, in a situation where it is down on stocks it will be forced to take quite a bit of damage to comeback. If it kills someone that has 2 stocks left but the horse has 1 stock and 2-3 hearts it is in trouble because it basically has to run away until it gets to 5-7 hearts before going in with the bone rush and can't do damage while on the run. Even low tier kits like chicken can run and turn and do damage and keep running.
     
    Posted Mar 5, 2019
  6. Crash

    Crash

    Chicken has low armor and low regen

    This is a HUGE weakness against anyone with the mechanical skill to actually hit the chicken



    Sheep actually hasn't been nerfed significantly for years. The only change has been to the size of its Static Lazer, which was only increased for testing purposes, but then the testing update had been pushed before it was properly fixed.

    Static Lazer is still consistent minus the glitches it already had
     
    Posted Mar 8, 2019
  7. Abstractdragon

    Abstractdragon

    how do you combo something that does not take knockback? the whole idea of a combo is hitting someone while they are taking knockback, so you can get in another hit.

    if the skeleton horse rushes you with no abilities, i feel like its not a "snowman is better than skeleton horse" idea, and more of a "the skeleton horse doesnt know how to play the game" idea.

    what? golem has 3 decently damaging abilities. realistically, you won't be landing a max damage fissure consistently, iron hook only does 5 - 7 damage (i think it depends on distance, dont know though) and seismic slam does decent - good damage. skeleton horse is the same way essentially.

    cows abilities only do 5 damage, and they are relatively easy to avoid, even with a big hitbox. they both have an ability that cancels knockback. i dont think mobility is going to do much in a cow vs. skeleton horse matchup.

    skeleton horse can close the gap with bone rush, as previously stated.

    the fact that you acknowledged skeleton horse is at least viable, albeit low tier, is a step in the right direction.
     
    Posted Mar 9, 2019
  8. DaGourmand

    DaGourmand

    I said it's questionable whether the skeletal horse is viable or not. It is at the fringe of being viable and it's low tier.

    1. Yes you can combo the skeletal horse while in bone rush. I do not believe the skeletal horse can melee while in bone rush but I may be wrong on that as I don't use the kit I only fight against it. So when the skeletal horse is rushing into you can hit it multiple times and at certain times do more damage to them then they are to you.

    2. It's not that the skeletal horse would rush the snowman when it's used up its abilities it's that the snowman would rush THEM when it's used up it's abilities or at least bone rush. Blizzard can slow down the skeletal horse if it tries to run away and the snowman can easily get around the side to land massive combos. The deadly bones scatter around and most of them don't even hit. Bone rush also is its only recovery move and the snowman can gimp it with blizzard and force the horse to use up its bone rush before it even engages in the fight.

    3. While iron hook might not be that high on damage it's still a decent move and while fissure might not hit all the time, bone rush and bone kick don't always hit so I don't see the argument you're trying to make there. Iron golem has better attack and armor stats as well and takes less kb.

    4. Cow has stampede which allows it to move almost as fast as a wolf or a spider, and deals extra damage on the first hit. It's hitbox is a similiar size and it takes little knockback. The stampede plus angry herd into a melee combo deals massive damage and the horse can't get away if it's used up its bone rush.

    5. Skeletal horse does at least have an ability to close the gap but once the gap is closed it doesn't have many options unless near a ledge that it can bone kick it off. A decent ssm player knows this and won't leave themselves vunerable to a bone kick. I was referring more though to when a skeletal horse is very low it has no way to damage to enemy from range when say it's on 0.5-3 hearts. It is forced to hide and regen which in a 4 player game can be difficult at times especially when being targeted. It is easy to lose stocks quickly with the horse and in a end game situations where the skeletal horse is down stocks it has to consistently kill its opponent without loosing more than 5-6 hearts.
     
    Posted Mar 9, 2019
  9. neropatti

    neropatti

    [​IMG]
     
    Posted Mar 14, 2019 at 4:29 PM
  10. Pupett

    Pupett

    Dang, it's been a while since i played with hit boxes on, i didn't realize it was that big/that the shape wasn't longer on one side and skinny on the front. thanks for showing me

    [​IMG]

    But in regards to the points i made before about horse hit box not really impacting its gameplay,

    This is the size of the hit box in relation to the player

    The player in relation to the horse hit box is located dead center, meaning when you're moving forwards, the player hit box should align with the front of the horse since the disguise lags a bit behind

    > basically means that the effect of the hit box is negligible, only issue would have to be an attack from the side you're not looking at (the "wide" side), or exploiting the corners as a direct double jump kit

    the mob hit box in relation to the player also shows why projectiles have a tendency to "bounce" on this class so that's some new insight

    Either ways, hit box size doesn't negate all of horse's other advantages that I listed before, + more; it's kind of beating a dead horse at this point (pun intended (: ) to continue to talk about it
     
    Posted Mar 14, 2019 at 5:16 PM,
    Last edited Mar 14, 2019 at 6:28 PM
    Vocaloiid likes this.
  11. xOeuf

    xOeuf

    Broken hitbox and really good damage output. It's not underpowered. I'd put it straight mid.

    I'd probably argue for chicken, it's so weak and it really doesn't do much damage unless you can get a really strong missile hit-chain. There are some tweaks that could be done to change it, like maybe add slightly more armor, or change some basic stats for the kit.
    Sheep is also quite far down there - I miss old sheep with the insanely OP static laser. It was such a meme of a kit and it got nerfed to oblivion :(
    (Obviously we can't make it too op but at least make the laser AOE big again because that was so much fun <3)

    LMAO reccted. The horse is actually quite strong right now, in my opinion. Yeah - it has a large hitbox in comparison to maybe some other kits, but using the correct combos can easily take a massive chunk of HP from any mid-armor class (Spider, Sheep, Squid, etc...) I think it should stay as is, but again - my input may not be the best as I'm slightly biased towards melee kits :O

    I'm not really the best with kit balancing, but those are just my two cents.
     
    Posted Mar 15, 2019 at 7:31 AM
  12. ppancake

    ppancake

    bruh it’s a joke
     
    Posted Mar 15, 2019 at 4:09 PM
  13. xOeuf

    xOeuf

    Ah big oeuf my bad
     
    Posted Mar 15, 2019 at 4:23 PM

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