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Future Frosting nerf too much?

Discussion in 'Cake Wars' started by anthxny, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. So I’ve heard that the slowness effect is going to be removed completely from frosting, and while I will say frosting is definitely overpowered at the moment, I think that’s too much of a nerf. First off, that would defeat the entire point of frosting and the kit would probably become underpowered and make grinding the achievements not even worth it. I’d say itd be better to reduce the slowness to 1 from 2, and maybe reduce the duration of it as well. Frosting would still be a strong kit but wouldn’t be as overwhelming as it is now. Secondly, frosting does take skill to use, despite what many people will tell you. The most fundamental uses for frosting that I’ve seen such as engaging with it at least would require you to aim and time the snowballs properly. If you mess this up then you would just be better off with a different kit. Also using snowballs similarly to a rod in battle is even harder. If you mistime a snowball or just miss it completely, not only does it do nothing for you, but it will hurt you if you’re mid fight. So yeah, frosting is definitely overpowered at the moment, but it also requires timing and precision to utilize to its fullest. I’ll say it does need a nerf, but the slowness effect shouldn’t just be completely removed.
    Posted Feb 19, 2020
    Loofii, okDamien and SpyNinja__ like this.
  2. *KerbalBoy flashes back to the hundreds of times he's been hit into the void while bridging*
    I disagree. Slowness is not the only current use for Frosting, and the "entire point" is definitely not the slowness. It's also used to knock people into the void at every stage in the game, and it acts as a rod.

    And only removing slowness wouldn't make frosting underpowered - you have to think of the power of kits in relative terms, instead of absolute terms.
    What I mean by that is if one kit is bad, but all the other kits are terrible, the bad kit is overpowered, because it is vastly superior to every other kit. It doesn't matter how good a kit is, it only matter how better a kit is.

    If Frosting lost the slowness, it would still beat Warrior and Archer. Warrior is a pvp kit that has literally no positive effect in 1v1s, and Archer is a long-ranged kit that has no effect without buying a weapon anyone can get.

    Frosting won't become "underpowered" by removing the slowness.

    As far as I can tell, these "skills" require you to right click while looking at someone. At the very worst, you might have to scroll between your sword and the snowballs.

    I am genuinely struggling to find anything that requires more than a basic level of skill! Maybe knocking someone off a bridge? Then again, you do get 4 attempts to hit the person (a max of 3 snowballs, plus the 1 that regenerates when you're firing the first 3), so even that is quite easy compared to using the Archer kit.

    The person is literally 3 blocks away (or thousands of miles away if you want to be really pedantic xD). I would actually struggle to miss someone at that close range, especially with the 4 attempts I get, that I mentioned earlier.

    And like I said before, the other kits require more skill to use. You're not saying that they should be buffed (although they definitely need it), and why not?

    Therein lies the problem - this would still make Frosting good, while Archer and Warrior are not at all. We need the kits to be balanced, and keeping the slowness wouldn't make it balanced. Slowness needs to be removed. Go ask GI (Game Insights) if you need further explanation.

    You'll notice how I haven't mentioned Builder at all in my post, because unlike the other kits, it has no intended pvp functionality. It's a utility kit, and has nothing to do with this idea.
    Posted Feb 19, 2020
  3. The snowball is 'like' a fishing rod. You get knocked back. I do think that slowness should be removed so it is not too OP.
    Posted Feb 19, 2020
    brandon3074 likes this.
  4. All of the kits have their own strengths, builder allows players to rush to islands much faster. It can and is often used in pvp such as to suffocate players and hit them from below where the player being suffocated cannot fight back. A smart builder is really strong and could definitely outplay a frosting player, but like all kits, that depends on the skill of the user. Archer only needs to buy a bow and they get infinite arrows, most players don’t actually buy a bow and arrows until much later on in the game and until then, archer is uncontested at long range and a good archer player can be essential in gaining an early advantage for their team. Also, think of the kit without the slowness effect at all. The only use that would be unchanged is knocking people off bridges, which archer is still better at, mind you. It would be much less effective in pvp. In both relative and absolute terms, frosting would be an underpowered kit. Builder would just be much better, both in and out of pvp.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 19, 2020
  5. Correction: They get 3 arrows, and then there's a cooldown which is far too long to be useful in a pvp situation. This is not on par Frosting or Builder which has nothing to do with this idea.

    Because spending 12 bricks on a bow every single time you die isn't worth it at the start of the game! And when it does become worth it, players buy the bow and arrows, and they have stacks of bricks to buy hundreds of arrows. The Archer kit is quite useless. It's not balanced.

    You haven't mentioned the Warrior kit? In a 1v1, it has no effect, and in a 2v1 you're just flat out dead, no matter what kit you have. The Warrior kit is quite useless. It's not balanced.

    It's not? You don't see anyone using Archer at all because it's unbalanced but if you did, Frosting would still be better - the rapid fire reload of Frosting is clearly superior to long time it takes to draw back a bow.

    It would still be better than every other kit, even if you include Builder which you shouldn't because it's not a pvp kit and using the platform to suffocate players is a glitch. The rod is essential in competitive pvp, and Frosting would become that essential item, while also knocking players off bridges. Being less effective means nothing if it is much more effective than everything else.

    First off that's not how absolute terms work - you can't have something that is absolutely better with this interpretation of the word absolutely.

    Minor complaint aside, that's just not true. Like you said before, Frosting is good at knocking people off bridges. Also, remember that the only intended feature of Builder is the ability to build bridges. Surely I don't need to explain why this makes Frosting better outside of pvp.

    And inside of pvp, Frosting still wins. Giving someone a rod and making them fight someone without a rod isn't exactly even. Also, suffocating people with platform is a glitch, and should be ignored in this thread.

    Posted Feb 19, 2020
    Korben likes this.
  6. I meant infinite as in they continuously receive arrows and won’t need to buy them until later on in the game. Spending 12 bricks on a bow is worth it at the start of the game, unless you keep dying carelessly. Yes, archer kit is one of the more underpowered kits along with warrior, but it’s not useless.

    Well I figured warrior kit would be obvious, it’s strength is fighting multiple people at once or one right after the other. If you’re against multiple people you’re usually dead, but you have to consider the circumstances of the fight first. Do you have any teammates with you? Do you have better gear than your opponents? Do they both attack you at once or one at a time? In a 2v1 situation you aren’t always dead, but even so I will agree that warrior is fairly useless.

    Frosting is only good at knocking people off bridges from a short distance. At longer distances, snowballs will most likely miss and even if one lands, the knock back is much lower than a bow so it’s not even guaranteed that it will knock them off at all. Some times I go archer just for the fun of it and know by experience that it does have its strengths and that’s one of them.

    Suffocating players is a glitch? Then would people who do it be glitch exploiting? Next time someone suffocates me, does that mean I can report them for glitch exploiting? Whether that’s the intended use of the kit or not doesn’t matter, the fact is that’s how it’s used and that’s what matters, saying it should be ignored in this thread is just wrong.

    Thing is though, frosting wouldn’t be more effective than everything else if the slowness were totally removed. Platform suffocating would probably be better in many cases and honestly, even archer would be better in some. Call me crazy, but you can engage with archer the way you can with frosting but with an arrow. Except, the arrow will actually do damage and quite a bit early on in the game (I’ve beaten people with frosting in pvp using archer)
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 19, 2020,
    Last edited Feb 19, 2020
    leo_thya likes this.
  7. Personally, I'm not a very big fan of the slowness given by the frosting kit and would be happy to see it removed. I'd assume Mineplex would give it another purpose but even if they didn't the snowballs are still pretty good considering you can only get it from the kit and not through any of the in-game stores meaning that you have the advantage of being able to knock people off the bridges while bridging and knock players back when they are attempting to kill you.
    Posted Feb 19, 2020
  8. It's definitely not too much, I think if they do this, they could give a higher quantity of snowballs to balance it out.
    Posted Feb 19, 2020
  9. Builder is the op kit because of deploy suffocation. It can void easily, stop people from mining the cake blocks, etc. Frosting shouldn't even be nerfed imo and should definitely keep the slowness. Archer is pretty much useless except early game I think, and warrior can be good to stop cleanups.
    Posted Feb 19, 2020
  10. That’s different, if they remove the slowness and give it a higher quantity then it can be used more freely making it a bit better even without the slowness. When I said to reduce the slowness to 1 and/or reduce the duration of it, it was kind of a suggestion.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 19, 2020
  11. What is the entire point of frosting? To be a combostarter? It's still going to be a combostarter. You'll have to work a bit harder for them, but the fact that no other kit has a combostarter like it means it will have the edge in melee 1v1s pretty much no matter what happens to the kit.
    Posted Feb 19, 2020
    SpitefulNick and KerbalBoy like this.
  12. Yes. It's not intended.
    Sort of. Not really.

    It's confusing, and I don't fully understand it, so I suggest DMing a Rules Committee member if you want to understand it any more.

    That's what we want! Frosting shouldn't be better in every scenario. Just because it's an achievement kit doesn't mean it should be unbalanced.

    Sometimes Frosting (without slowness) would kill a Builder by knocking them off a bridge. And sometimes, a Builder would kill Frosting by suffocating them (even though Knitted Platforms don't work at beacons).
    Sometimes an Archer would be comboed by a Frosting user, and sometimes a Frosting user would be bowspammed by an Archer.
    A Warrior would win in a 2v2 against Frosting, and Frosting would win in a 1v1 against Warrior.

    This is ideal - each kit has pros and cons. It's balanced. But keeping the slowness wouldn't balance it. Frosting would still have the upper hand in nearly every scenario.
    A Builder can't suffocate a Frosting user if they're too slowed down to move.
    An Archer is useless if the targets are much faster then the Archer itself.
    A Warrior can't 2v2 when they're unable to move.

    Any form of slowness is unbalanced, but like I showed you and everyone else, removing the sloweness makes it balanced and fair.
    Posted Feb 20, 2020
    Dulciloquy and Korben like this.
  13. Heyo!
    So I'm going to drop in my opinion, whether people like it or not;

    1) Frosting is not too OP. I think it's decent and any tweaks to the kit would just ruin it. For example, if they removed the slowness, it would make it a fishing rod, and may aswell remove the kit and add fishing rods into cake islands. If they added a higher quantity without removing slowness, it would just be downright OP Extremeness: 100.

    2) I like the lines that @mab8400 is thinking. Maybe adding more snowballs and reducing slowness could make the kit easier to deal with/ use. Any nerfs / buffs would make the kit either too OP, or too useless, so you should either remove slowness and add more snowballs, or leave it as it is.

    3) People keep making threads to address this issue. It's an overrated idea / point of a thread, and I think these threads just address hate to the kit. I think that people should just suggest removing the slowness and increasing the quantity of frosting snowballs you get, like @mab8400 suggested.

    Leave the kit as it is, don't make any tweaks as this makes it either too useless or too powerful.

    Posted Feb 20, 2020
    BaEconic likes this.
  14. Game Insights (the people who know what they're talking about) disagrees. As do I. It'd be appreciated if you justified your opinion, because this just feels like a rather biased opinion - we always play together, and you only use Frosting. You have an incentive to keep Frosting overpowered, so it'd be great to explained why you think this.

    A little bit of perspective would be great - out of the 4 kits currently used, half are completely ignored for many reasons. Making Frosting a combostarter + an amazing way to knock people off bridges is really far in comparison.

    I can't really respond to this, because you directly contradict yourself in the next sentence:

    So explaining what you actually mean with justification would be ideal.
    Posted Feb 20, 2020
    Korben, leo_thya and yulufi / Sean like this.
  15. So it’s a glitch but doing it isn’t glitch exploiting... right.
    I said frosting wouldn’t be better in every scenario because you said that it would be if it kept the slowness effect even if it was reduced.
    For builder, Slowness 1 is definitely not enough to stop a builder from platform suffocating, even with slowness 2 they are still able to platform suffocate easily.
    As for archer, not sure what you mean? An archer doesn’t need to move faster than their target when they shoot, drawing a bow hardly allows them to move anyway, they really don’t need to move at all.
    For warrior, they’re still able to move, just slightly slower than normal.
    Just in general, slowness 1 isn’t anywhere near “being unable to move” as you’re saying.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Feb 20, 2020
  16. It's a combo tool- the addition of slowness in any capacity in the first place was completely unnecessary and OP. Frosting should be a kit that allows a skilled user to get a free combo, not a kit that enables mediocre players to get guaranteed free kills. The nerf is well deserved.
    Posted Feb 20, 2020
    Jordaaann/unforgetful and Korben like this.
  17. 95% rod 5% knocking into the void. The slowness makes the comboes inescapable and allows you to catch up to the other player. Kinda broken.
    Do you even play the kit? It isn't just taking skill to hit off a bridge, it's knowing how to time the frost correctly so the opponent always has slowness and can get stuck in a combo. Even without the slowness, frosting is still the only rod in the game, so it'll still be viable.
    Just because it isn't intended, doesn't mean it has an no PVP functionality. I could name a few: plat spamming without having to return to gens, block place to start a combo without having to return to gens, blocking off players jumping over a gap. It gets these things with more ease than someone having to buy to replenish resources, so definitely has PVP functionality lol.

    Aaaaaaaand that's why it's planned to keep their bow on death. Maybe you should check out the doc sometime in GI discord.

    Oh yes and the frosting planned changes are fine imo :)
    Posted Feb 20, 2020
    Dulciloquy and Korben like this.
  18. the frosting is OP because of the slowness, it needs to be removed. you can still start combos and knock people off of the edges. the planned change is necessary as people shouldn't just be able to get easy kills no matter what which is exactly what the frosting can do rn if you start a combo; which, while it takes some skill, is still fairly easy to do. the planned change has been talked over many times and argued about. it has been decided on already and basically the entire community agrees that at the very least the slowness needs to be removed.
    Posted Feb 20, 2020
    LT Tombstone 77 likes this.
  19. God I sure hope it gets nerfed. The things too OP. I mean I get it's hard to get but, damn, free combos.
    Posted Feb 20, 2020
    Korben likes this.
  20. no. frosting is literally a free combo starter. taking away slowness will make it much more skill based. please stop. thanks.
    Posted Feb 20, 2020
    SpitefulNick, Fallen™ and Korben like this.

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