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Fix moderation inconsistencies

Discussion in 'Server Discussion' started by Leave, Sep 24, 2021.

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Do you believe Mineplex moderation should be improved in any way?

  1. Yes

    73.3%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Maybe

    26.7%
  1. Hello to those who may be reading this thread.

    This thread subject is based around Staff Members, Moderation and the currently listed definition of the rules.

    disclaimer: I am not targeting Moderators who fulfil their job as intended. This thread is targeted towards Moderators that are strict, don't care about context in a situation where they issue a punishment and follow direct players in hopes they break a rule.

    I've come to create this thread today as I feel it is salient to single handily list inconsistencies that are noticeable and captivating to at least receive an opinion on and for the server to 'hopefully' improve upon without demolishing my thread with a biased intention to defend without hearing me out; however, moreover, look out for those who are being targetted by moderators on a daily scale, yet pretend to not see their friends are breaking obvious rules within their friend group.

    It is a substantial factor that Mineplex is holding their current player count of roughly 100-500 concurrent players because of the players who advocate for MIneplex or want to see their friends within the different lobbies. Why are Moderators still to this day consistent with trying to uphold a punishment that is not fair? Why does Mineplex have no intention to unmute those players who have been muted for an unfair reason? Why are players being muted for reasons when the context clearly matters? Why are players getting muted normally but when that Moderator is in their party, they're subjected to some sort of favouritism? It is clear that the Moderation team over the years has received backlash, not just from me but MANY different regular players. There have even been articles written stating that the Moderation team alongside other different teams have failed to listen.

    This comes to say, I do feel there needs to be a big step-up in Moderation and the way they're handled. The rules themselves can be manipulated to inform players of different words that are considered "filter-evasion" and I do feel that some laby-mod rules do need to need to start coming into place. Daily, they're players who consistently scream outrageous curse words, slurs, discriminate against those who are not in general biases of a stereotypical straight American. Mineplex wants to encourage players to join because of their family-friendly qualities when realistically that is not the case whatsoever. Why is Mineplex issuing out punishments for saying "legs" on laby capes but not those who want to continuously harass regular players for their gender, nationality or ***uality? Mineplex needs to review this and issue out ethical reasoning.

    This thread is motivated by me recently being muted for saying "Stop saying the [racial slur] (No, I did not say the racial slur, for reasons I will not say it again but format-wise "s word", "u word")". when a random player was running around lobby-1 screaming racial slurs to players. I was then told I should appeal and they understood my frustration. Later today, I was denied because I have to wait a week as the punishment that was issued towards me was deemed a "fair punishment". There is no indication that I should not say this word. Even if this word is still not allowed, surely it should be considered an unfair punishment due to the context leaning towards me genuinely having no ill intention. I am no longer allowed to communicate with players during my favourite upcoming season because I wanted to look out for myself and the players within the same lobby.
     
    Posted Sep 24, 2021
  2. Sadly, the rules do say that bypassing the filter in any way will result in a mute. Do I agree with the rule? Not really. Did you break it though? Yeah. And Mods do suffer repercussions if they don't apply the rules of the network to its players. What I'd recommend you do is send a message to a Rules Committee member on Discord (Toki usually responds quickly, within a day) and start a discussion from there.

    They're not very open to change in RC though, just a heads-up (I've been muted for the same exact reason before and I was unable to change anyone's mind). Very unflexible. It's worth a shot though.
     
    Posted Sep 24, 2021
  3. I'll try to keep my reply as short as possible - I do agree with some of your points but not with everything! Edit: Not short, my bad

    What punishments do you find unfair? Why do you think we have no intentions to unmute players for unfair reasons when an appeal system exists not only for justified but also for unjustified/unfair punishments? As for your last question, most likely because they broke a straightforward rule in their message. However, context is important and we do take it into consideration the majority of the time - I have seen certain cases where context wasn't taken into account which is why I'm not completely disagreeing but rather asking for more insight as - in my experience - this is pretty rare.

    However you do have to understand that context isn't as important whenever you break a Severity 2 or higher rule, as they are pretty straightforward - eg. don't bypass the filter (no matter the reason why you did it, you still bypassed the filter), don't tell someone to die (even as a joke, not everyone takes it that way), etc...

    Honestly I don't have an answer here, other than "it's bound to happen" because the team is completely voluntary and there's no real way to check (?) whether a staff member has "ignored" a friend of there's unless it's reported, of course (and in these situations it is taken seriously).

    I do agree it's really frustrating how certain staff may sometimes turn a blind eye to things and I can't really come up with any solution to this other than gathering evidence whenever you see it happen and reporting to their mentor. Also, if you see a player breaking a rule but a staff member ignoring I suggest you submit a report as well, whether that be through /report, the Discord, or the forums. Chances are another staff member would see it and deem it sufficient and issue the punishment the player deserved.

    In the public rules, there is a public filtered word list showing at least some of the examples for words that are filtered and the reasoning why. I'm not really sure what else we could add to make it a bit more clearer

    This was brought up lots and personally I understand why things are the way they are right now and wouldn't change it. For starters, we can't punish through LabyMod, that is completely up to LabyMod Moderators themselves. If you mean issuing bans for what some people can say through LabyMod, this already happens, for severe cases. Doxxing, harassment, abuse, etc through LabyMod VC can be reported to an Admin (or just send it to any staff member and we'll forward) and they will take the situation from there, deciding whether it is enough for a network ban or not.

    Of course, I'm sure a lot of people would like if players could also get even temp banned for the things they say through LabyMod VC even if it is not as severe as the above, but one of the reasons we don't do that is because staff members would feel pressured, either by the other staff or community, to use LabyMod & its VC. Yes, they wouldn't have to talk, but essentially what they would be asked to do is moderate a platform that is not ours, something they didn't sign up. Not making it mandatory also wouldn't help, as, once again, staff would be pressured by the people around them to moderate it or answer reports from it.

    This seems extremely out of context, I'd have to see the cape. I have never seen anyone punish someone for something as simple as that on a cape, there has to be more to it. As for the second part, I don't understand what you are trying to compare - are you trying to act like players don't get muted for these things at all? They definitely do. Unless this is related to LabyMod VC in which case not always, but sometimes (depending on how severe - up to Admins' judgement as it would warrant a network ban).

    That seems like a super frustrating situation and I'm sorry for that, I understand the context here and don't necessarily agree with the punishment; I would personally express lenience. However, at the end of the day, you did technically break a rule, whether you were aware of it or not to begin with is irrelevant in order to get punished. I highly suggest you appeal after the week again, though, and I wish you the best of luck!
     
    Posted Sep 25, 2021
    RainbowUnicornGM, Amg and Joshhh like this.
  4. Hi,

    I disagree with some of these very... situational examples being used in a way as if they're meant to represent the entire staff team. For starters, staff members exercising "favouritism" towards others in their parties. Now, out of about a hundred staff members, how many are actually doing this? I just want to grasp an accurate picture of this because personally I would struggle to believe it occurs to the point where it's an issue with the general staff team rather than a select few individuals, in which case it could be reported to their Staff Management mentors/Admins or through a support ticket at mineplex.com/tickets. Of course it shouldn't be happening, and I believe you that it's happening in some cases, but it's important to distinguish between a wide scale issue and one that is more so to do with specific people.

    Right. So for some of these, it's just not accurate to call these moderation inconsistencies in the sense that you mean. It sounds a lot like you're blaming the moderation staff members for exercising these punishments. Do you think there's some kind of a choice involved? If it breaks a Severity 2 rule or up (and in a lot of Severity 1 cases regardless where perhaps that example of Severity 1 rule-breaking is outlined in the punishment guidelines or is otherwise considered against the rules without it being a matter of opinion on context), then the staff member has no choice but to act on it. That's not their fault. There are guidelines set out above our head that we have to follow or there will be repercussions. Do you think I can let an unvaccinated person eat at the hotel I work at because I don't think it's fair to turn them away? No. Management makes the rules and I follow them or I'm out. It's the same principle. So don't blame the staff members themselves because whether they think it's fair or not; most of the time it won't make any difference to the outcome for you.

    The people you should really be directing your concerns to are the Rules Committee team. They came up with the rules in the first place, the ones which you believe to be unfair. These aren't "moderation inconsistencies", in fact they're actually the opposite because the rules are being enforced by staff as they're set out for staff.

    "Why is Mineplex issuing out punishments for saying "legs" on laby capes but not those who want to continuously harass regular players for their gender, nationality or ***uality?"

    This is like asking why every single hacker on the network is not banned. (I'm just going to ignore the example you provided because I have a strong feeling you're leaving something out or there's something else to that "legs" punishment... because that on its own would not happen.) But anyway, let's say an inappropriate cape punishment. Staff members punish for what they see. How do you punish for something... that you don't see? Obviously staff members are going to punish these players who harass others when they encounter them. If they're punishing for inappropriate capes then they saw someone with one, and if there's someone out there discriminating then clearly they haven't been in the presence of a moderation staff member. You're hardly suggesting staff pick and choose what to punish for when it comes to Severity 3/4 offenses?

    As for your own mute, I can see both sides. Technically it is set out in the rules that you shouldn't be bypassing the filter even in that way, and it's also not the staff member's fault for punishing you as they're just acting on what they have to do as per the staff punishment guidelines. But as for the rule itself - that phrase falling under filter bypass - I do think it should depend on context there. You were just voicing your frustration on the behaviour of others without being malicious yourself. After all, that phrase is literally what we say to avoid "bypassing the filter" if you translate it to real life terms: avoiding saying the actual word which is what's actually discriminatory.
     
    Posted Sep 25, 2021
    RainbowUnicornGM, Amg and Cloudy like this.
  5. The punishments where the text in question doesn't have any ill intention. I can understand small things like telling your friend to die. I can understand filter bypassing when it's clear like spacing letters or using different characters to not have your text turn into stars; however, a context where it's coming from generalised wording to not do i.e "s word", "f word". That is something small children say to not get into too much trouble. That wording, you cannot say has any terrible intent behind it, or if it does (Players seemingly trying to use it in the wrong manner) you can tell the difference easily. Kids should be able to say "Please don't say the f word" without being issued a punishment. The audacity of it all is that if the kid actually said the word, Mineplex automatically filters it out in which they won't get into trouble, but if that kid tries to filter themself by using the wording in question, it's a mutable offence without a warning.

    I do believe it is bound to happen. Wherever you go, there is going to be some type of abuse or rule breakage; however, there are ways you can counter these types of situations by having frequent observation courses without needing the type of evidence that is required. I honestly don't really have much of a solution; although, there has to be away. This is one of the reasons why I decided I wasn't going to play Mineplex anymore at the time I quit. There have been so many Moderators which have ignored my requests to observe somebody (intentionally) have broken rules like cross-teaming or intentionally not fighting the other team to have some sort of alliance. There have been Moderators which have been toxic towards me and some friends because we took information from a Moderator and repeated it to friends. There have been Moderators who seamlessly mute people but will let another player off because they have some sort of mutual agreement or they're friends so they feel bad. It is my own fault for not taking these situations further; however, it becomes more of a frequent task that I'm being asked to do alongside also trying to consider other things like reporting hackers for instance. Mineplex should willingly want to squash these types of situations within their own hands, not with others consistent help.


    Informing Administrators is not enough. Lobby 1 and many game modes are filled with labymod voice-chat users which are consistently removing the family-friendly qualities from Mineplex. I agree that Mineplex cannot moderate labymod voice-chat for them; however, when somebody as large as labymod becomes a huge statement within a community, you have to take into consideration the wrongdoings that could come out of it. There are many solutions to this i.e creating another sub-team specifically for these situations.


    I will appeal again; although, I don't really have hope of being accepted. I don't agree that what I said was at all fair to be punished for 32 days (I understand that other punishments are taken into account when issuing the duration of the punishment) a warning would have been okay and fair in my opinion.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 26, 2021
  6. Please read my disclaimer. Through my experience, this has happened on a large scale. If these sorts of situations did not happen on a consistant basis then I would not care to have typed up a whole thread.

    Most of my experiences I've found to have happened throughout the Cake Wars Community which is Mineplex's game mode with the most concurrent players most (if not all) of the time.

    I feel as if though you don't understand that staff members show lenience towards most punishments within the SEV 1 & 2 category. Technically, when it comes to 'lenience', they have got a choice on their hands in which can be manipulated easily their own biased intention. Do I believe every staff member has a biased intention behind their issued punishment? No, but I do believe it is an issue within the community. I don't believe my punishment had any biased intention behind it either; however, I should have been shown some sort of lenience. Some sort of verbal warning. That is a choice that could have been made. This was also referenced in another message on this thread: "don't necessarily agree with the punishment; I would personally express lenience. However, at the end of the day, you did technically break a rule".

    I do believe I could have changed up the title to match more of the inconsistencies that I felt needed to be stated. My apologies. I also do believe more of these inconsistencies could have been cleaned up and presented better. That is my own fault.



     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 26, 2021
  7. Also get a real chat filter so many people were swearing in nano-3 LOL.
     
    Posted Sep 26, 2021
    CatFan105 likes this.
  8. Seconded
    I was there
    Also please a new anticheat at so epoint would help, you wouldn't believe how many people were upset by a blatant hacker winning all the nano games for a solid hour, just doing that could probably lessen it
     
    Posted Sep 26, 2021
    StyxKiller03 likes this.
  9. The staff members themselves I think are doing a pretty good job keeping the server under control. Some things like the LabyMod VC situations aren't in the Mineplex Moderation control. It's not their platform/service so they can't exactly moderate it.

    If your having issues with LabyMod VC I would suggest you not using it because it cant eliminate the probably quickly and efficiently.
     
    Posted Sep 26, 2021
  10. This isn't how it works. Staff are only allowed to show lenience towards most severity 1 punishments. Even with the ability to be lenient though, there are guidelines and general knowledge about what is over the line and what is acceptable. Staff still can't decide to not punish someone because they thought something they said or did was justified, if it blatantly violated a rule, no matter the severity. I also think this is maybe why you have noticed staff give "preferential treatment" to friends. Because friend groups have their inside jokes, I have seen players say something that might come across as rude to a stranger, but in the friend group it is just a joke. There are still limitations on what can be said, but if a staff member is playing with friends, they may have more context than you can see. Not to mention, I am not really sure how you would know exactly what is happening behind the scenes, as punishments are not broadcast in public chat, so players may very well be receiving warnings/punishments without your knowledge. With all that being said, there are still individual cases like this, but if they are reported or observed by anyone on the staff team, there are repercussions. I did also want to note that we have several ways of making sure staff are following the rules and doing their jobs correctly, so I don't believe this issue could be as widespread as you seem to be making it. Again, there are issues that arise on any staff team, especially one with mostly volunteer teens, but these problems are quickly resolved.

    At the end of the day, Laby is not Mineplex's property, so we can't moderate that platform. As stated, in severe cases there may be some options, but the fact is that is Laby's responsibility to moderate their own client.

    At the end of the day, the rules are the rules. We do everything we can to make it a safe and fun environment, but we are also volunteers.
     
    Posted Sep 28, 2021

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