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Falsely banned (appeal accepted) because of triple-jumping being confused with bhop

Discussion in 'Super Smash Mobs' started by KanaiZo, Oct 11, 2020.

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  1. Yesterday night, while I was playing SSM, I was suddenly banned by a staff member with the reason of "bhopping", which resulted in a 40 day ban. I appealed, and surprisingly was unbanned, but I felt as though I barely had enough evidence to prove my innocence. The fact that something as simple as triple-jumping and other advanced movement techniques resulted in a ban that I was barely able to prove as illegitimate is a huge problem, at least to me.

    At this point, I feel the need to record every game I play, just in-case an inexperienced staff member decides that what I'm doing isn't legit. It's their word against mine, and the appeal team has faith that the moderator who delivered the ban was right about what they did. I could've been banned for 40 days over nothing. I really do think the staff team needs to be trained better with recognizing things like this instead of being able to hand out bans like that.

    Yes, I know, "mistakes happen", but that doesn't excuse the fact that people could be banned for months unfairly and not have anything to prove their innocence. The guy who banned me wasn't even a trainee, it was a trained mod, and they definitely should've known better.

    I'm sorry for the rant, but at this point I feel extremely upset with what happened, and I don't feel like I'm safe from the ban-hammer anymore. What if I hadn't have had those games recorded right before my ban? I would've had it denied, and it would've gone on my record, making people think I hacked.

    Just please train your staff better to recognize stuff like this.
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
  2. Hey there! If you have an issue with a Staff Member it's best to make a support ticket @ www.mineplex.com/tickets, providing as much detail as possible.

    I understand your concern, however making a thread about it isn't going to get anywhere except locked/deleted.

    If you are hacking in a game or if you even look like you could be hacking, the Staff Team is not going to wait and investigate further. If they think you are hacking they will ban as fast as they can, to avoid having you ruin the game for others.
    That obviously doesn't go for things such as Reach, Autoclicker, or anything like that, as the QA and RC teams actually have to look into those, but for B-hop, Fly, Scaffold, Headsnap, any blatant hacks really.
    (I may be wrong here however, so if a Staff Member can correct me)
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
    ilyLegend and Believerc like this.
  3. So what you're saying is that it's okay that I could've been banned for 40 days for no reason? That it's okay that inexperience with the gamemode is an acceptable excuse for a false ban? Like I said, what if I didn't have enough proof? I would've been banned, and I wouldn't have been able to do a thing about it.

    All I was asking was for the staff to be told what triple-jumping is (and other advanced movement tech) so that this doesn't happen again. And how am I supposed to report a staff member if I'm just gonna be told that "staff members make mistakes"? I don't even know their name either.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 11, 2020
    Crash and Jet Starglaze like this.
  4. No, I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying that's most likely what happened on their side of the story.

    I'm not sure how I missed that point in the original post, so my apologies there, but I agree that they should be trained to recognize advanced movement tech.
    Also yeah, you might be told "Staff members make mistakes" which is true, it's not a lie. But if a Staff member is breaking the rules, or ruining the server, or abusing power, or any of that, then they will be taken care of somehow.
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
    ilyLegend and Believerc like this.
  5. I fully agree that staff members should be required to have a decent amount of knowledge within every gamemode on Mineplex. More hardcore gamemodes like Super Smash Mobs and Champions have an array of abilities and techniques that inexperienced staff members can easily mistake for bhopping. Like the triple-jumping technique in SSM and Rupture Jumping in DOM / CTF, which looks closely like bhop. It really is frustrating when there's a staff member in the same lobby who either a) refuses to punish a player abusing glitches or b) falsely bans a player. xOeuf highlights this perfectly in his resignation document:



    This team’s admins does not support an air of growth in my experience. Just recently, a player with 10,000 wins in Super Smash Mobs was banned for bunny hop, mistaken as such for triple jumping in a manner that resembled the movement. This player, on an alt, was banned after half a round against the moderator. When confronted, the moderator claimed that this player was also using kill aura to a degree not possible in the game, due to the way hitboxes and mobs are represented within the game. In effect, a plain false ban. Furthermore, the player who was banned got on another account, and asked (politely) if the moderator knew what triple jumps were or how they worked.

    What was this moderator’s response? Well, “if you continue to follow and harass me, I will mute you. Consider this a warning”.

    A gross statement to make towards a player simply asking about his ban, after being ignored for five minutes without any sign of comment. I felt disgusted. Such conduct from an experienced Senior Moderator is childish at the very least, and unwarranted. One who acts as such is nowhere near sane enough to fit the position of power this staff team appoints its players. Yet this is beside the point; context, perhaps.

    I took to the slack channels, asking for a rule change: originally pushing for evidence on movement hacks to be recorded - realizing this was not a good approach, I changed my recommendation to one of re-training staff in games that are problematic for moderation. Take SSM for example, it is a complex game where kits such as guardian cannot show correct head movement when not taking hitbox direction into account - one cannot tell where it is accurately looking just by glancing at its “face” in-game. Furthermore, the kit itself has a lagging hitbox, in other words, the hitbox is behind the actual kit. Triple jumps are a skill that allow players to jump further, lower, and faster. One can glide, short-jump, or cancel jumps, resulting in movement that mimics bunny hopping, or a double jump with timer enabled. Killaura also cannot affect the anticheat in the same way it does other games - this is known, and due to hitboxes, as aforementioned (yet I will not delve into detail within this matter, as it is not allowed of me at this time).
    Such a game, with complex intricacies that are commonly overlooked and not understood by most staff should warrant caution - staff who are inexperienced should not be issuing punishments in these games, as they can result in false bans. The only staff I trust to take good care and understand this game, currently, are MiladKhan and Sven. Of all others, I feel that training is warranted - in all games that may be problematic, for that matter. Having brought this up; the matter of writing a document and having trainees study it in order to understand the workings of the game, some individuals seemed disgruntled by the idea; they did not champion its motives, and simply noted that “If it is false, they could appeal - we have not seen many false bans that our StM staff or FM’s have not caught”.
    Your staff will not know it’s false if they do not know how to play the game in the first place. Bring all FN’s and three Staff Managers into an MPS and have them triple jump consistently or simply try to ban a guardian for Killaura with hitboxes and looking direction on. I guarantee you that none of them will be able to pass such a test.


    The only way I see to fix this problem like you and xOeuf have said is to train every staff member in being able to what is and isn't punishable. Hopefully some of the higher ups can take notice of this and take this constructive criticism into account.

    Staff are bound to make mistakes sometimes, why don't we try to minimize how often it happens?
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
    Crash, Mitchy and anna dot like this.
  6. Hey,

    First off, I agree with you. SSM has so many kits and abilities that we're not always able to distinguish between a player using hacks and someone who's legitimate. I think we need to start taking the advice "If you're not sure, don't punish" more seriously as these type of threads do tell us a lot about the impact that one mistake can have. You were unbanned, but not everyone will be and there isn't always a way to ensure that punishment was fair if it was applied at the time of playing (and not from any evidence that might have been submitted against you). It isn't the Forum Management team's fault for denying the appeal, as they'd rather not always assume the player wasn't hacking when it was a qualified staff member who punished them. I do see the dilemma.

    I would like to add that being banned without any evidence to back up your case does not always mean the appeal will be denied. The staff member who punished you can play a significant role in whether you're unpunished, and that all depends on whether they're confident about the punishment they issued. However, there are definitely some people who could be confident in their false punishment due to lack of sufficient training. This might be their fault to a certain degree, like if they didn't get a second opinion, but ultimately they weren't trained in how to handle such a scenario - in which case I completely agree that such training might need to be provided. Bear in mind though that it is already generally encouraged that we don't punish if we're unsure and to gather a second opinion or ask R.C if necessary.

    I'm not familiar with SSM at all, just to get that out in the open. I typically have to gather a second opinion and sometimes I just stray away from SSM altogether. I might be 1% sure of the punishment I want to issue or 99% sure, but not often am I 100% confident within that gamemode. So from a personal standpoint, I would love to be trained in SSM so I can serve as an additional staff member who can effectively moderate one of our most populated games. If this isn't a possibility, I'll just have to continue using all the people and resources that I have to become more experienced.

    Just remember that these things take time. Someone has to take the initiative of training everyone and that isn't an easy job to do. Until that day comes, some of us will still be making mistakes and that's okay. It's only not okay when that punishment is brought to us and we can't admit that we could be wrong. Sadly there isn't really a solution to this; all we can hope for is that some training might eliminate the need for anyone to have a lack of confidence in their abilities.
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
  7. Shouldn't being able to differenciate hacks and in game abilities be part of becoming a moderator? I don't understand how mineplex has one of the most rigorous systems for recruiting mods yet many mods false ban just because they don't know how abilities work.

    Theres probably plenty more players who get falsely banned by the anti cheat or mods because of lag.
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
    Crash, Mitchy and KanaiZo like this.
  8. Maybe when knew kits and abilities are added all the staff have a meeting and talk about what is considered cheating or not, if you know what I mean. This could prevent things like getting false banned over a in-game ability.
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
    Chpinkles and KanaiZo like this.
  9. That's stupid haha. A few years ago, I almost got reported for the same thing. I was triple jumping across a map and someone was like "oh that's bhopping i'm gonna report you" and then everyone else in the game was like "o yeah that's definitely bhopping wow whatta hacker" Nothing happened to me, but it's still annoying how people are going to falsely accuse people of hacking when they accuser knows little about the game. And like you, I am annoyed at this game, or server in general, but for different reasons. I'm really upset that I went back on TODAY after a break of few weeks, only to see that nothing has changed. So that is why I am going to be leaving yet again.
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
    KanaiZo likes this.
  10. Kinda relatable. I have a history of hacking in the past so players in a server started accusing me of reach and afterwords a mod banned me for no reason and saying it was for reach. I appealed and my appeal got accepted in less than 24 hours
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Oct 12, 2020
  11. Exactly. The trainee process and application is hard and strict and the fact that so many mods will unfairly ban people is just sad.
     
    Posted Oct 11, 2020
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