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don't lock denied ideas :sunglases:

Discussion in 'Forum Discussion' started by ole, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Vocaloiid

    Vocaloiid

    This is the unpopular opinion as a member of Ideas Team, but I slightly agree with this. I've seen a lot of anger from GI and other communities for locking ideas that could work, but when it's locked it's as if discussion has ended, and nothing more can come out of it. I've talked to @EmmaLie to allow more talk of these denied ideas, but of course, there are some ideas that just don't fit the server / are denied by LT and we have no control over that. But again, if you ever have an idea that you felt was denied unfairly, please DM Ideas Management, or me if it relates to a Game Idea / Balance. @SilvosTM has a good point about the ideas getting clogged, but I'd still like to allow more discussion from ideas that have potential.
     
    Posted Dec 6, 2018,
    Last edited Dec 6, 2018
    ole and Fall like this.
  2. I said mods, sorry, mod's that are on the team lock it, but there have been a few that were locked with only one reply and a couple with no repy. I just think it should be discussed some
     
    Posted Dec 6, 2018
    ole likes this.
  3. Vocaloiid

    Vocaloiid

    We shouldn't kick ideas to the dust if they're well thought out and denied. They have massive potential, and discussion around them is still good to have.
    Agreed
     
    Posted Dec 6, 2018
    ole likes this.
  4. Zipppo

    Zipppo

    This only happens when further discussion won't change anything. I know we all want to express our opinions - especially if we feel strongly about a change but if for an example an idea is not a possibility and has been denied by LT then there's nothing we can do and therefor have to lock and deny it. Another example is if someone posted an idea that had been toughly discussed and was then denied - if they posted the exact same idea with no developments/changes made then the thread would be locked. Members of the ideas team can't lock ideas for themselves, even if they are moderators they have to have the approval from Ideas Management. So again, as a few people have stated above, if you have any concerns about that I would contact them about it. If an idea has potential then there will be quite a lot of discussion about it beforehand if it ends up being denied.
     
    Posted Dec 6, 2018
  5. Fall

    Fall

    How do you define "too long" and why would it be an issue if people kept a thread alive for a long period of time? Discussion is generally a good thing and if people want to discuss an idea which is ultimately intended to improve the server, it seems idiotic to prevent that.

    Furthermore, people get upset over threads getting locked as is, so it's not like you're making people angrier.

    Would you be so kind as to give an example of a thread that must be locked or an idea that simply cannot be saved?
    Does it not literally prevent people from continuing to discuss on that thread? Yes you can make a new thread, but continuity is important, and it's a pain to do. And not to be rude, but discussion of ideas seems more important than convenience for a team whose literal job description is supposed to be "sift through ideas on forums and find the good ones."

    It's also worth pointing out that getting your thread locked is extremely discouraging. It's not a "oh ok I guess I'll try harder next time" it's a "what the heck I spent a lot of time on this and they're tossing it into the garbage can. See if I ever propose another idea."

    A post saying "as of now this cannot be implemented because it breaks EULA or is simply impossible to do" is much more helpful than locking. I've seen ideas go from pretty terrible to pretty good when feedback is given and people are given an opportunity to respond to that feedback and bounce ideas off each other. An environment that encourages this is ideal, and ironically Ideas team has had a lot of difficulty doing this.
     
    Posted Dec 6, 2018,
    Last edited Dec 6, 2018
    Sophie_OGrady and ole like this.
  6. Waspter

    Waspter

    I disagree. If you find any reason that your suggestion is better than the previous one, you can make another thread. A locked thread prevents arguments, which are unnecessary. Again, if you find a reason which could lead to the suggestion being approved - create another thread, since if you try to post the new reason on the denied suggestion appeal, it will be informal, so it's just better to make a new thread and linking the denied suggestion with your new reasoning to why it should get accepted etc.
     
    Posted Dec 7, 2018
  7. ole

    ole

    ah just realised. thought the forums were a place to share, develop and discuss ideas- not just getting them denied :weary:

    yeah but up until this very point i thought the ideas section was a forum per the google definition[​IMG]
    if it's just a place to submit already developed ideas (1) there should be another section where you may actually discuss the idea and (2) that should be communicated clearly - in the very opposite way of what the current description ("Welcome to the Mineplex Ideas Hub! Here you can create, discuss, and show off your ideas for new kits, games, or anything else you think would improve things on Mineplex.", https://www.mineplex.com/threads/idea-discussion-hub-information.2387/) states.

    honestly i don't see why u wouldn't just use a form equal to trainee applications and appeals like heck LOL there's even a format in place

    can't tell which part of it you're referring to but i do have a p strong defense in my foreignerness :sunglasses:

    see under the second quotation up here


    as previously stated you can indeed, but where would u host the discussion leading up to this Idea 2.0 ??

    and i'm by no mean denying that. in fact that's the point of my suggestion too

    fixing those problems along the way is one of the main reasons of discussing the idea tho

    couldn't be added per the point in time where an aspect of the idea is breaking the EULA. development can single that aspect out and eliminate it

    so what you're saying is that all we really need is the discord server and google forms?? personally i prefer forums as such above chats for idea discussion ngl

    however it does stop them from reflecting together with other forum members with efficient continuity

    though as stated above there would be nowhere to discuss said feedback, changes and improvements

    wish i had all the answers :weary: couldn't u make a submission form or something for fully developed ideas tho, i mean u even have layout up n running in ur hub info thread :thumb: as for confusion that's lowkey what we have the moderating authority for innit

    yah sure will, but an idea can be rubbish and still open for this constructive discussion


    false sir or maam. new considerations can always change


    once again, LT denies the idea as it is formulated in the moment they make their decision. this is a formulation that with discussion and development will be in a constant change


    still the denial is a fundamental aspect of the development, where u get the flaws that need a fix pointed out, and should not be considered a final decision regarding the topic of the thread


    although then where would you host the discussion and collaborative development leading up to that new thread mate

    according to my calculations, a locked forum would have a 100% success rate with fewer resources spent :thinking:

    I don't disagree that there should be a different process than the discussion itself in place for when the final ideas are submitted (uppon which i'd like to suggest a form equal to appeals), but there should be room for a process leading up to that submission located in the very thread in my opinion
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Dec 7, 2018
    Sophie_OGrady and Fall like this.
  8. Waspter

    Waspter

    I don't understand? You discuss your issue on a new thread, no need to change something that isn't broken/needs to be changed.
     
    Posted Dec 7, 2018
  9. saltyish_

    saltyish_

    Personally I kind of agree with this.

    Locking threads that have been denied is preventing people from discussing about it, which ruins the point of having a forum.

    Thanks
    -saltyish
     
    Posted Dec 7, 2018
    Fall, _Prof_ and ole like this.
  10. Waspter

    Waspter

    I respect your opinion, but it also prevents drama. The OP may start drama by continuing to post unnecessary stuff about the denied suggestion. It's simply much better to just make a new, fresh thread - minimal drama.
     
    Posted Dec 7, 2018
    _Prof_ likes this.
  11. tuxxed

    tuxxed

    It obviously is a forum and I didn't say it wasn't for any discussion--I very clearly said lots of constructive discussion goes on there. Just because it is on the forums doesn't mean it cant also have specific purposes in relation to the ideas team though.

    When you create a thread in the ideas section you are essentially submitting it for processing and team discussion. I dont personally care where discussion happens is what I was saying, because if you purely want discussion there is no need to post it as an idea that needs to be processed in that section. If ideas team finds a way to create more discussion while efficiently handling it all in the same forum then all the better.

    As for what I said didnt make sense, I was referencing you saying locking denied threads and allowing the creation of new ones was similar to silencing ideas entirely.
     
    Posted Dec 7, 2018
  12. ole

    ole

    yet there's the need for the discussion about how to change the things that do need change

    why can't we moderate this like the rest of the forums tho

    fresh thread = minimal drama + zero continuity

    gucci

    indeed indeed, but the section is called "idea discussion" and info thread states that "Welcome to the Mineplex Ideas Hub! Here you can create, discuss, and show off your ideas for new kits, games, or anything else you think would improve things on Mineplex." ?? : D ??

    allowing discussion up until response nr3 seem nonsense to me

    ohyes i was comparing not allowing the development of an idea for a feature for mineplex with not allowing the development of an idea for a form of government currently considered less efficient than the one in use
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Dec 7, 2018
  13. tuxxed

    tuxxed

    Yeah I can see why it would be annoying and confusing to have to post in forums other than Idea Discussion to have complete discussion of an idea for more than a few days/week(s) before it gets accepted or denied, then locked.

    There is some possibilities inhibit discussion of an idea by coming to a decision too quickly. I think it would be nice to be able to respond to denied threads as long as it fits into ideas team's purpose for that section, if not, clarification would help.

    I wasnt speaking literally that it didnt make sense. I meant that you cant compare not being able to speak at all to having to create a new thread to speak, though at this point it's not really relevant.
     
    Posted Dec 7, 2018
    ole likes this.
  14. Waspter

    Waspter

    How is a new thread = 0 continuity? Link the old thread and improve the suggestion, without any drama. Plus, I would prefer 0 continuity over drama. Denied suggestion thread + drama = gets you nowhere.
     
    Posted Dec 7, 2018
  15. Pancake_7

    Pancake_7

    heyo!
    I generally agree with this, as when people lock threads they could be preventing a further discussion that could be of use for updates or other things. If this were to be added, and someone would wish to continue the discussion, how would this idea work with necro posting? Perhaps there could be some sort of thing that signals a continuation of the discussion. Either way, I agree that denied ideas shouldn't be 'locked' away and forgotten, but instead open for new and brighter ideas with that same idea included.
    Have a great day!
     
    Posted Dec 7, 2018
    ole likes this.
  16. ole

    ole

    i ame happy to hear we somewhat agree

    see
    , can't just create a new thread to be able to speak ergo it's comparing preventing development of ideas not yet considered good enough for mp to the prevention of development of political systems not yet considered good enough for politics which is comparable from my viewpoint : DDDD but as u said, relevance :weary:

    see my third quote here

    may i suggest developing this idea to 0 community over drama? that would make everything easier by far according to by calculations

    I disagree. Denied suggestion thread + drama = gives staff an opportunity to do their staffer jobs, and then when unconstructive participants are excluded u get a constructive discussion

    im thinking like the rest of the forums ; D
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Dec 8, 2018
    Pancake_7 likes this.
  17. Waspter

    Waspter

    And why should the staff bother to solve conflicts when they have probably better things to do? It's just simpler to make a new thread, without drama. It seldom requires any further discussion as the person who has done that suggestion knows it can't be implemented, so they will throw out unnecessary childish arguments which will not get you anywhere, and the denied suggestion will not be improved.
     
    Posted Dec 8, 2018
  18. Marzie

    Marzie

    I'm not quite wrapping my head around this whole thing. If we denied an idea for whatever reason then why should we keep the discussion open? For what? If an idea is denied it's more than likely denied for a pretty good reason and there probably shouldn't be any other discussion on it. What would that discussion after it's been denied even be about? Drama?
     
    Posted Dec 8, 2018
    Waspter likes this.
  19. SilvosTM

    SilvosTM

    Yes, it does prevent players from continuing to discuss on that thread, however, I don't see why this should be considered as big of an issue as you're painting it as. I totally agree that continuity is important but by locking threads that have been denied, we aren't actually halting continuity at all. The team doesn't archive nor restrict access to these threads upon denying them, they are still there for the public eye and if people cared for continuity as much as you're making out, then they wouldn't be that difficult to locate either. If a player creates a new thread that includes a denied idea with changes/improvements, we have zero rules against them quite simply putting a link to the old thread so that anyone viewing the new thread can also view the original version of the suggestion and the feedback that came with it - to be frank, that isn't hard is it?

    Discussion of ideas is also extremely important, I agree. I joined this team so that the many could voice their opinions, not just the few. The team do their best to do so whilst keeping everything going smoothly - sure, there are blips now and again but we aren't robots, we're humans and of course there will be errors at times. Your statement about idea discussion being more important than the convenience of the team confuses me. Would you rather our team have a stable structure that allows us to keep up with the quantity of ideas we receive, or that we didn't, pushing ourselves past coping point, allowing everything related to the team to descend into chaos, and for the ideas section to fill up.. and fill up, taking threads months before they get a response? If you were around during the time that this occurred in the reports section, people weren't happy.. and of course they had a right to be. But do you think players were expressing their annoyance and frustration because their reports weren't being responded to for a fairly long time.. or because members of the team locked the threads after they were processed?

    "Don't sweat the small stuff" is what comes to mind.

    If you have any suggestions or recommendations for the team, you're always more than welcome to forward them to an Ideas Management member or even @EmmaLie herself - I'm more than certain that they would love to hear your suggestions and to discuss/address them for you. The way I see it is if we can improve, we will, but if there are more cons than pros to said improvement, then it's just not going to work out as we'll just be taking a step in the wrong direction.

    We all wish we had all the answers, how better would everything be if we did, right? It makes our lives even more difficult when players continue to argue with us when we are doing our best to address the overall suggestion and explain why it wouldn't work. We love having you guys and girls discuss with us, we really do, but what doesn't help in this specific situation is that players don't know the inner workings of the team and just don't understand that we're doing our best to work with you all, not against you by saying no to this idea. Moderation staff aren't here to help us keep track of our section, plus it would most likely just cause even more confusion as not every ideas team member have direct contact with them. The only time moderation staff (that aren't on the ideas team) tend to show their presence in the ideas section is to join in on the discussion, or for forum staff specifically, to lock requested threads/moderate. As for your alternative idea, I would recommend forwarding it to Ideas Management through a private message so that you can get a clear answer that isn't amongst everything else on this thread. I do appreciate that you brought up a possible solution.
     
    Posted Dec 8, 2018
    ole and Zipppo like this.
  20. ole

    ole

    if staff have so much better thing to do than moderating a blockgamecommunity perhaps they shouldn't be staff?


    now this is a vERY basic example i know but it functions as an example with some goodwill; player1 suggests that we should make some amazing new cakwars kit with a special ability that has to be refueled for shards occasionally. admin1 denies and locks because it would conflict with the EULA. player2 never gets to come up with their suggestion that u can use gems instead of shards.


    the discussion could for instance be about how to make the idea comply with the requirements stated in the denial message


    spot on: OP has to think of the changes/improvements on their own


    presuming locking the thread had a negative consequence i think i'd express my annoyance and frustration in both but that's just me


    I fully understand sir and would personally write a standard document on like 100 pages to them all that explain every possible angle, and then demand that they read that before they argue with me to save time and avoid 99% of the arguments either because people's question was answered or because they couldnt be bothered to read :weary: :ok_hand:. in all seriousness tho if people can't accept clear, pre-stated criterias u should grab that ban-hammer- there should be a requirement regarding the constructivity and positivity, n u should run that unc-rule as u did back in the good ole days in this stage of idea-threads (NOT the rest of the forums thanks LOOL) and inform people that if they’d like the guidelines changed they should state that in another thread and not in the middle of the constructive discussion and development surrounding this idea



    Now I don’t feel like I have the necessary insight to state who, but SOMEONE should be the ruling authority in this section of the forums as well, and this ruling authority should be there to be the ruling authority. N if that ruling authority is the ideas team then the ideas team should have the necessary permissions to be said thing.



    appreciate the suggestion. @EmmaLie if u could spawn id sincerely appreciate it thanks xoxo
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Dec 8, 2018
    Fall likes this.

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