Discussion in 'Cake Wars' started by jxcvb, Feb 16, 2021.
agreed, so many of them have awkward gameplay.
+1 most of those maps at mid make team play incredibly harder, which is the only pvp i can do.
+1 on fixing the issues or removing the maps.
These maps are super nostalgic, I don't think I'd want to see them gone. If anything, these maps don't matter in existence wise because in competitive games they can just be removed as options. In public games, the only reason you wouldn't like them is because you can't dominate pub games
+1 Definitely need to be removed
I personally like aquaduct (am a fan of it's mid) but I do agree with pretty much everything here. Fix or remove.
I personally dont care about the maps, for me the gameplay is the same every time
I get swarmed by sweats in the first 30 seconds
+1 there are plenty of decent maps, we don't need to keep the mediocre ones (especially fractured, please remove it)
I agree these maps are horrid for gameplay. I support the removal of these maps if changes cannot be made to fix the problems with them. Good idea Jacob :)
+1 these maps need to be removed
Hey! I really appreciate how much effort you put in to give relevant feedback about these maps. I know that I can agree with you on most of your reasons. The main thing that I agree with is that based should be quite open so that you can easily see when somebody it trying to eat your cake, and also so opposing teams can’t trap you with a single wool platform.
Thanks for making the post!
I played it on Java a few times and some maps are bad
+1 I agree with removing all of these except Autumn Utopia, I feel that this map is fairly unique and still has very good gameplay. But other than that yes these maps need to either be removed or heavily modified for better gameplay and aesthetic.
In my opinion I think these maps are decent/alright for cw2 as you hardly need mid or need to go mid which is one of your points.
Complaining about maps, that don't let you get to the other team's cake fast enough is just annoying.
One of your complaints about Aqueduct, is that it takes 5 plats to get to a side. I think this is fair, you give the other teams time to get endstone, so they won't get rushed by 2 people from one party, and ending up getting their cake eaten within 30 seconds. That is poor gameplay. Your hate for these maps comes from a desire to get wins faster. You don't mention problems with maps like sssnake or choppingboard or even woodland groove, where it takes longer to get to your cake from the gen, than to eat it. That is poor game play.
I have to agree on fractured, it's a bad map that plays really poorly. I think this could be fixed by removing some of the leaves that makes it a pain to get around the map.
Mocha is a map that actually gives people a great chance to try out new gameplay styles. You can hide - even go above mid to try and get a cake sneak. I think this is fun, and actually gives other players a chance against full parties. The full parties and experienced players should know these things about the maps, which would make gameplay interesting and different.
Tori's problems could easily be fixed by lowering the middle area, so it doesn't have the same problem with the stairs. There are lots of other maps with stairs at mid, that you haven't mentioned like construction site. It's the exact same gameplay - you just can't get to the cake fast enough on tori.
Tropical is unique map, that I don't think has anything wrong with it, the mid plays fairly well, but it has been up for a long while and a new one wouldn't hurt. You argue that there is nothing special about it, yet the reason to most of the maps you want removed is because they have something special about them gameplay wise. I do have to say, that it doesn't take long to get to the cake from the gen on tropical, which can make it difficult to eat a cake.
Wish - I have to agree here, it's just a terrible map and the base just makes gameplay bad, especially with pearls. I don't think there is anything wrong with Autumn Utopia. You can block up almost any cakewars map, the picture you showed is a bunch of plats, and I have never seen the base blocked up like that. I think the problem, with this map is that it takes more than 3 plats to get to a side, which is not a problem really, unless you want quick wins.
Maps that I do think should get removed are maps that drop frames for most players. I find it hilarious that you didn't mention Plenty O' Fish, which is notorious for making players drop frames, especially when bridging - but who needs bridging when you have 2 players rushing side with plats. Other boring maps include Swan Lake which is just a flat map that is just boring to play on.
But what do I know, I'm just a player who doesn't really care about getting fast wins
As someone who has been playing Cake Wars for multiple years, I agree with this post. +1. Whale.
Clara, I feel like you misunderstood the central argument. The issue isn’t getting wins faster, it’s the fact that a 1 minute game needlessly turns into a 3 minute game. A team that is considerably better and experienced than the rest of the lobby will almost always win. (Exception being alts and hackers.) Part of Jacob’s argument stems from the basic idea that, if the match is already set to be won, there’s no point in making that process longer. And the truth of the matter is, the game becomes longer solely due to the extra time it takes to buy a pickaxe.
You argue that it’s “poor game play” when a cake is eaten within 30 seconds, but the truth is, no one made those players stay. If players desire to play a game out, so that they can experience ‘good gameplay,’ the option of simply leaving the game early and looking for another is available. For that reason, stating that side rushing isn’t enjoyable for those players is completely invalid, based on the fact that such games could have been avoided.
So the claim that “[Jacob’s] hate for these maps comes from a desire to get wins faster” is misguided, since your definition of “poor game play” is objective at best. I can equally be justified as you, by claiming that maps with needlessly long sides make for poor gameplay. But on the other hand, I have a hard time comprehending your argument as a whole.
I’m not sure which would be more enjoyable, losing a cake and being eliminated in half a minute, or losing a cake and being eliminated in three. Within your post, you insinuate the idea that the side teams have a better chance of winning given that they have the necessary time to place endstone. Yet, you ignore the fact that this ‘increase in win-chance’ is marginal at best. Ultimately, placing endstone does little more than delay the inevitable. Again, if players don’t want their cakes eaten within a minute, they don’t have to play that particular game.
I’m sorry, but what?
Yes, Mocha gives interesting gameplay opportunities, but this is only tolerable during matches between parties. You completely look over the fact that, by design, Cake Wars is a team based game. Your encouragement for individual players to hide or tower up is not a display of exercising “new gameplay styles,” but rather, borderline game-stalling. For that reason, your idea of making the “gameplay interesting and different” translates poorly in this case. It is true that “full parties and experienced players should know these things about the maps,” yet, it is due to that same principle that Jacob decided to make this post.
Throughout this post, it’s apparent that you’re latched onto the idea that the only thing parties care about are faster wins. Consequently, you failed to see Jacob’s overarching point. It’s not a slower win time that’s the issue, but the “special features” present on maps that equate to an overall poor experience. Your references to other maps such as Construction Site and Plenty O’ Fish, alongside their gameplay issues, are justified. Yet, these are known issues that had already been expressed by other members of the community. Labeling it to be “hilarious” that these weren’t included within the post is evident of your underlying bias.
Swan Lake is part of the competitive map pool for a reason, and as a whole, is balanced and well designed.
But what do I know, I’m just a player who cares for “good gameplay.”
Java players talking bout removing dem maps
Bedrock players: remove?
I definitely wouldn’t like to see them be removed, but an update on them would be great!
My argument may be flawed, but saying there is no need for a game to be 3 minutes when it could end in 1 minute could be used for any game. A game lasting 3 minutes gives teams a chance to get to the middle or the side beacons.
You are correct, no one made the players stay, but most players do not even know what hit them until it is too late. Being able to do that is a skill too, and that is fine, it is a gamestyle. But in my opinion, I have begun seeing the way cakewars is being played right now as a problem. There is no encouragement for new players to play. You might say that they could just get better, and I have used this argument in the past, I just don’t believe in it anymore, because as cakewars is right now you need a full party and the game almost never fills up, due to one of the two parties leaving. That is probably not how the game was intended to be played.
It might delay the inevitable, but this would require experienced players to think of that and get a pickaxe. That’s 8 more bricks and does not take long to get. It would also give players who are not as good as the other team have a feeling of accomplishing something or actually be able to play the game.
You are right, almost every game is set to be won for the more experienced party, but following that argument that there would be no point in making the game longer, why not just give you the win without playing? Making the game longer would give them a bigger chance at just having an enjoyable game, which does not mean that they have to win to enjoy the game.
My opinion on Mocha is subjective, like my opinion on all things, because it is an opinion. I know there sometimes can be a problem with gamestalling on the map, due to people blocking up after they lost their cake. This is a problem in all games. I have gotten cakes on Mocha that I would not have been able to get on other maps, due to the way you can go over the middle area.
I don't have 19 thousand wins in the game (I am aware that this is not a proper argument), but I've been playing it enough to also know these things. There are different play styles, and opinions are subjective. This is why I chose to write about my experiences on the maps.
This is my subjective opinion, because I simply find it boring to mindlessly rush sides every single game. That is my opinion.I think special features encourages different types of gameplay, so it's not the same rush every time. I think different maps should encourage using other strategies.
This is not true. The competitive map pool for CWCL right now is: A Piece Of Cake! Azure Breeze, Bucolic, Doggy Business, Incendium, SSSnake and Sanctuary. For COTC it is: Badger in a Suit, Oasis, SSSnake, Sanctuary, Incendium, Chanterelle, Cherry Falls. Swan Lake is not in the competitive map pool. For CDCL there are: A Piece Of Cake! Campgrounds, Cherry Falls, City Lights, Frosted Cakes, Marley’s mushroom, Oasis, Pinecone and SSSnake. To fact check this I used the rule books for the 2 Leagues and COTC. Please let me know if this isn't correct.