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Confessions and General Thoughts on Rayers

Discussion in 'Mine-Strike' started by Crypte, Mar 9, 2021.

  1. Hey folks,

    I'm Crypte, and I've glasspacked/x-rayed on and off since I started playing Minestrike a couple of years ago.

    First, a disclaimer: this is in no way a defense of rayers, or of myself; it's just some thoughts on the topic in general and my personal experience.

    Ok, so I know a lot of rayers are just trolling and admit they do it, but for this post, I will be focusing on people like me, who have denied and hid it.

    The impulse to cheat in Minestrike comes from a combination of the steep learning curve and the ease with which one can cheat
    . For some reason, people who probably wouldn't even consider hacking in games like Super Smash Mobs or Survival Games get frustrated and download a glasspack for MS. For me, frustration with losing and insecurity about not being good enough in the game made me start. While I've never gotten banned for it, I have been called out multiple times. That embarrassment and guilt have been enough for me to try to stop many times. My longest clean streak but was for a few months over this past summer, but eventually, I went back to cheating.

    After once again getting called out again a bit ago, I have a new plan: I will retire my account for a while and play solely on an unranked alt. Hopefully, the lessened pressure from thinking I have a reputation to uphold will make it easier to play legit, and I hope to build up my confidence in my unaided gameplay so I can eventually return to my main account. I also am doing my best to record and report other rayers so that I can try to separate myself from the cheating mindset and to try to make up in a small way for my previous raying. Crypte is currently unbanned and has never been banned; I'm not sure if this type of forum post could count as evidence, but I suppose feel free to screenshot or forward to the RC.


    Cheating on tests, or any other negative compulsive behavior, raying is hard to stop once you start and those who try playing legit often "relapse" multiple times. And from experience, I can say that those who deny cheating often go through some crazy mental gymnastics to subconsciously trick themselves into thinking they aren't cheating. It's this purposeful cognitive dissonance that allows rayers to deny their actions so fervently and even get angry at other rayers and accuse them in-game.

    So what is the solution? For one, I think raising the fear factor is not a bad idea. If players see people getting punished more often, they will be more likely to not cheat or stop. Similarly, I don't think it's a terrible idea to raise the severity for x-raying, but I know that will probably not happen.

    Also, I know it is hard to not try to ridicule rayers in public chat, and don't get me wrong, they/I probably deserve it. However, for those rayers that continue denying it, I promise you this: calling them out and making fun of them will just push them deeper into the hole of lying and cheating. I strongly suggest private messaging them, and trying to encourage them that they can learn to play legit (and letting them know that they really can get punished for raying.)

    It obviously sucks and is just stupid to cheat in a block game. But these impulses come from understandable places and stopping is not as easy as just saying "ok fine, I'll stop". Having an understanding of this might help combat the problem of raying long-term.

    Let me know what you guys think!


    - Crypte
    Posted Mar 9, 2021,
    Last edited by a Moderator Mar 10, 2021
    MaybeMulti, Paladise and Fusafez like this.
  2. Heyo, thanks for admitting and making an effort to come clean. From my experience in the past 4 months recording and reporting over 25 rayers, I have seen how cheating negatively impacts the community. I actually planned to record you back when you glasspacked :P

    True, and most rayers are not comparatively skilled at the game. I have never cheated, but I guess it must require a good amount of self-control for a former rayer to prevent a relapse; as in, I have seen some cheaters banned 4 times, still in the game and returning on alts once the punishment length reaches an unreasonable amount of time.

    Insulting them in public chat will also make it hard to gather evidence if they start closeting due to the messages.

    For any players who want to improve at the game, have cheated in the past, or currently cheat, please know that your skill will improve drastically when you play legit. Your map knowledge, reflexes, and gamesense will be much better without wallhacks. I also recommend the Podcrash+ mod, as it offers several game improvements, disables third-person in MS, and makes it a little harder to ray.

    The punishment system for player ESP is still very flawed, so any feedback on combating rayers is appreciated. I support an increase in severity, repeat offense punishment length, and other measures such as encouraging Rules Committee to actively spectate cheaters in MS. Yet, in the end, cheating comes down to the personal level and it will take each player's self-control and responsibility to maintain competitive integrity.

    Take care.
    - Dyza
    Posted Mar 10, 2021
    Fusafez, Paladise and Crypte like this.
  3. I think increasing the severity of punishment for raying is a good idea, but I think what needs to happen is mods actually banning people for raying/decreasing the "proof" you need for it. I've been playing Minestrike since the beta came out (albeit with large breaks in between), and I've never seen someone banned for raying. Even if you bring up someone raying in MS games, players will say it isn't worth reporting because you'd need the equivalent of a ss of their modpack for it do actually do something. This makes it very discouraging to put in the effort to report someone.
    Posted Mar 14, 2021
    Crypte likes this.
  4. As I'm playing other rayers, I am building up a sense of how horrible it must have been playing me when I was glasspacking. How long do I have to play legit to earn the right to complain about other rayers? 3 months? 6 months? A year? Longer?
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 14, 2021
  5. lol xray wasn't bannable for the longest time because it was "too hard to tell if the player was sound boosting or just had good game sense". Xray is now bannable because of me @clouddistrict, and @badstet (who has been network banned for some time). In terms of punishment, there is a lag between report and punishment and the severity would start at 30 days and increases over time.

    there's already a list of rayers but there's not enough ppl to take the time to report them and staff dislike MS with a passion, mainly because of the resource pack....

    too bad they don't want to make a team specifically for minestrike, to catch these rayers, but what are you going to do if management thinks that its useless to make a team.
    Posted Mar 16, 2021,
    Last edited Mar 19, 2021
    Crypte likes this.
  6. Bless this man's soul, he finally admitted to cheating. I agree with everything here, for most, cheating becomes an addiction. I really never thought about just telling cheaters they can be good at the game without cheating before though, guess all my years of railing people for cheating has gotten the best of me there. The more frustrated you become the more impulsive you become and I think that's a big part of what causes almost every cheater to start cheating. Whether it'd be the steep learning curve, the other cheaters, the toxic members of the community, or just constantly dying to good players. It all can lead someone down this path of cheating, another example of this is ranked skywars. Fortunately and unfortunately for me I never fell down the path of cheating, but due to the frustration of the game and the interactions I had within the community I became one of the most toxic members of this community and it's taken me quitting the game and leaving the community for nearly a year to get over most of my toxic behavior. If I could give advice to anyone going through something like this, whether be it in real life or in another game, you have to quit and replace that thing you play or do with something else more positive. I left the Minestrike community and started pvping without getting into the community and that's what allowed me to still play a game I love but become better as a person as well.

    Maybe there is hope for this community,

    -Frosstt (Professor Reg, Ph.D in Minecraft physics, 6 year and 6 month Minestrike veteran)
    Posted Mar 22, 2021
    Paladise, dio. and Crypte like this.
  7. Crypte, I remember playing with you!

    I have mixed feelings about cheaters. One side of me wants to say “ buddy, if you have to cheat to like playing a game, then stop playing. If you actually like the game, you’ll put in the effort to get good. “ However, the other side of me wants to say “ cheating is disgusting, but MineStrike is the hardest game on the server to master, so naturally normally cheating-abstinent people are drawn in by the prospects of cheap wins. “ Although I don’t condone it.

    These are just my thoughts, but I would like to say that cheating and playing legitimately are intertwined with character and ethics. Are you that person who likes to put in minimum effort, get something from nothing, and be willing to play with fake skills as a substitute for real talent?
    Or, are you the person who tries hard and doesn’t give up, is unwilling to sacrifice their morality, and is patient with themselves and others?
    I believe that this is your ultimate question Crypte. You know who you are, and just why you cheated. Hacking and cheating are still breaches of ethics, albeit in a block game. Answer the question for yourselves, all of you who ray and cheat. Which person are you? Does the phony replica of skill give you the satisfaction that hours of grind and training do? No, it doesn’t. Substituting skill and experience with a cheap cloak to hide behind never works; never fulfills.
    Another thing to think about- purposefully giving yourself an advantage over another is never compulsive. Does cheating on anything in general wake you up at night in a cold sweat? Does it pervade your thoughts at random, unannounced and uninvited? Perhaps it clings to you in an iron grip, even when you beg it to go away, to release you? Cheating isn’t compulsive dear friend, taking the easy way out is. Too many people have made taking the short easy road a habit, and thus you feel compulsive about it. Don’t take the easy way out my friend. This mindset leads to many and greater problems in the future, correct it while you can. Learn this lesson while the repercussions are minute and unsubstantial my boy. Remember what I’ve said, and take it to heart.

    To answer your question, a rayer will never be able to call another rayer bad or complain so long as the player is associated with raying in the minds of the others. Your reputation will heal, just you see. In five or so months you’ll be just fine Crypte.
    Posted Mar 22, 2021,
    Last edited Mar 22, 2021
  8. Hey, thank you so much for your reply! You made a lot of really good, important points here: it is about ethics, and it is about taking the hard way versus the cop-out. And you're right that I have a long way to go of playing legit, but I'm taking it one game at a time.

    However, I do think it's a compulsion. Of course, you don't wake up in the middle of the night sweating - it's not a drug or any physical addiction like that. But it is a negative behavior that becomes difficult to stop for a number of reasons, even if you want to (or think you want to) stop. Anything that is bad for you but feels good can become a compulsion.

    And again, I'm not saying this to forgive myself or other rayers. Cheating sucks, and I'm glad I stopped. Part of my post is just trying to point out that for a certain percentage of rayers, I think we can get them to stop because they know it's wrong, they just don't have the willpower or confidence to force themselves to stop.

    Have a great day!!

    - Crypte
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 22, 2021
  9. You have a great day as well! I would like to point out that branding something as “ compulsive “ is often to benefit the party’s conscience. Insead of coming to terms with the issue, they mask it as uncontrollable, and therefore acceptable, or “ okay “. I believe this is one of the techniques for Mental Gymnastics you mentioned earlier, a technique people use to shove guilt and stone-cold truth down so that they don’t have to come to terms with it.
    Posted Mar 22, 2021
  10. I understand that - I hope it doesn't sound like that's what I'm trying to do!

    If compulsive means that it's uncontrollable, then I used the wrong word. Raying is entirely controllable by the person doing it, and if they truly wanted to stop, they could. By compulsive, I simply meant that once you start, there is a strong urge to continue doing it even if you know it's wrong, and sometimes it's not so easy to stop. FOr instance, I have tried to stop multiple times in the past to no avail.

    Serial killers probably feel compulsive about killing, but it doesn't mean they can't control it, and it doesn't mean they should be forgiven!


    - Crypte
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 22, 2021
    Sorhu likes this.
  11. Thank you so much for this reply Frosstt, it really made me feel good. While maybe you went a little too far sometimes in the way you expressed it, your frustration with me when I was cheating was far from invalid. I was really messing the game up for a lot of people no matter how much I told myself "I'll only do it a little" or "they won't really know for sure." I'm sorry for that. And I really appreciate how honest you were in what you wrote: writing my original post was difficult but I feel a lot better now. I'm glad we could both find ways of improving ourselves.


    - Crypte
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Mar 22, 2021
  12. I've never interacted with you ingame yet, but any effort to come clean and admit your mistakes in the past is a great step. It takes a lot of courage to come out and admit what you've done wrong, so good on you for doing it! I wish you the best of luck in becoming skilled without cheats, and I'm sure with time and dedication it shouldn't be difficult for you.
    Posted Mar 23, 2021
  13. Hello!

    I think your comment about how calling them out will only drive them further into hiding and cheating really got me. I never thought about why rayers might cheat in MS other than just for bragging rights, so I really thank you for explaining it to us. Also, your idea about just playing on an alt account to take off the pressure to uphold an image is really smart as well. I will take all of your words into consideration each time I find out someone rays. I have a friend who used to ray last year and I got really mad at them and just told them to stop, but they didn't before quitting. But I can see now that some people may just feel insecure about it due to their current lack of skill, so I really thank you for explaining that as well.

    Awesome coming out/hero story,
    Posted Apr 17, 2021
  14. Raying ruins the experience for others because it gives the player an advantage over another player.
    The severity of hacking, in general, should increase due to the rise in hackers on the server.
    Posted Apr 17, 2021

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