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Bow Boosting and Teaming

Discussion in 'Death Tag' started by Tavleen007, Jul 13, 2020.


Should bow boosting and teaming be banned?

  1. Ban bow boosting only

  2. Ban teaming only

  3. Ban bow boosting and teaming

  4. Neither

  1. Multiple experienced Death Tag players who have played for a very long time all agree on the same thing: bow boosting needs to be removed. The reason for this consensus if bow boosting is one of the most unfair things in Death Tag, second only to teaming with the entire server and farming wins.

    Scenario 1: Bow boosting only
    Why is bow boosting so unfair?
    As I have mentioned in parrotman's most recent post, bow boosting is completely, entirely and undisputedly one of the most broken and unfair advantages a runner could ever have. This is because bow boosting allows you to make almost any jump possible and is a skill that can be deployed almost instantly as you are running. 5 block jump? Bow boost? 10 block jump? Double bow boost! (so far so easy) 15 block jump? Triple bow boost (this one is slightly harder). Any chaser chasing you will instantly be "outparkoured," for lack of a better term, having to take the long route of jumps which are actually possible and allowing enough time for the runner to have gained significant distance from a chaser once 6 block behind them. This extra time bought can then be used to find a new camp spot, or to do more illegal jumps and gain and even FURTHER distance from the same chaser. What I mean here is the bow booster can do consecutive illegal jumps, exponentially increasing distance from any chaser. Now, it's not like bow boosting is a standalone kit with a cooldown for every boost. No - arrows come in every like 2 seconds and the arrows themselves deal massive knockback to normal skeletons. It's part of the archer kit. This is what drives me absolutely crazy. The fact that NOT ONLY can someone camp the entire game and make killing them almost impossible but even when the chaser FINALLY gets up to them after trying forever with 3 other chasers, the archer can just bow boost to another camp spot, making them almost impossible to catch. And what if the camper is one of the last 2 runners? One runner is running on the ground with 5 chasers after him and another is camping on a rooftop comfortably, with their overpowered kit. What incentive is there for the chaser to go after the impossible-to-catch archer rather than going for the runner, whose cause is hopeless already as it is, add one more chaser to the mix and he is definitely dead! And this isn't some skill, obtained from months or years of practice - any commoner is able to learn this technique. I'm a hopelessly bad archer but could pick up single bow and double bow boosting in 2 days, even capable of doing triple bow boosts once in a while. This is sooooooooooooooooooooo abusive! There is no viable counter to this making it an almost sure-to-win strategy to be employ every game.

    Scenario 2: Teaming only
    Why is teaming so unfair?
    Now, I have discussed the power of bow boosting but it almost pales in comparison to the effectiveness and efficiency to the strategy that is team2win. Albeit a boring method, teaming with the whole server is one of the easiest ways to farm wins on this game. I do not think there's a necessity for me to explain why this strategy is so broken but rather I wish to ask the question: why is it allowed? Something about each survivor being on his own team since it's a last-man-standing type of game but can we make Death Tag an exception It's quite outrageous to see the whole of Giulia squad chasing you while you try fruitlessly to escape the horde on the ground meanwhile she sits on her queenly throne as 5 chasers boogie and dance around her (just an example, no hate to giulia but she is definitely the team mode turned to MAX kind of player). People running who do not team stand absolutely NO CHANCE, zero, nill, compared to a teamer. It is so unfair and I am asking if it is possible to remove this and make cross-teaming illegal in Death Tag. People can still be friends on the server, of course, but just not team with them in game. This would make Death Tag so much more enjoyable, knowing that everyone stands an equal chance and the best player actually wins as opposed to the most teamed player. Make teaming a punishable offense please.

    Scenario 3: Teaming and bow boosting
    Combine both two unfair, illegal tactics and you have a guaranteed win almost every round.

    Also can we bring back Void at a reasonable y level not y=69420? Fellow traitors want to kill people more efficiently!

    I've edited my poll to include "neither." Sorry for the flawed poll on my part. I invite anyone with conflicting opinions to please comment on the post to share your thoughts so we can exchange ideas :)
    Posted Jul 13, 2020,
    Last edited Jul 13, 2020
  2. Very true. I agree with all these and think that bow boosting should be removed. I think that teamming could easily be abused since the Death Tag community is small and doesn't have many players. But you make some really good points and Death Tag should be altered accordingly since the server should improve already active games instead of adding new ones.
    Posted Jul 13, 2020
    mcckaay, rray, Anoop and 1 other person like this.
  3. I agree with Incarcio and Tavleen007. This is a real issue with Death Tag that the mods consistently turn a blind eye to and it is getting very frustrating receiving little to no feedback, or consideration on suggestions the Death Tag community puts forth in hopes to better the game!
    Posted Jul 13, 2020
    Tavleen007 and rray like this.
  4. It would be nice to see in a future update, where body blocking is punishable. It is not fair at all, and I do not see how it isn’t punishable in the first place. There really is no difference between exploiting the map and hiding in someone’s hit box to dodge damage from others. It’s not fair and should be punishable.

    Personally, I could see bow boosting removed. Although I do believe it is a strategy in certain situations—- it just becomes annoying. And it seems like the majority of the consistent DT community could live without it.

    I do not think it would be possible to remove teaming in Death Tag. I see a lot of mods and random people saying that there are no set teams. Which is a valid argument. But it gets extremely annoying and toxic once teams are formed. I would love to see teaming removed. It’s just an idea, but once a game begins—-the chaser is given a couple of runner assignments. Meaning, they can only kill the people listed for them. And if they don’t, the likelihood of them becoming alpha the next round is increased by a high percentage. Overtime, as more runners are turned into chasers, they get kill assignments and make it even between the top 2. So, it will always be fair. Just an idea! I’m positive if the community comes together, some changes to teaming could become true!
    Posted Jul 13, 2020
    Tavleen007 likes this.
    • General Rudeness
    I agree with this completely. All dt players who have lots of wins usually have a team. The 3 most annoying teamers of the tope of my head are. -snip-. I feel like teaming should not be removed entirely. But should not be allowed to be teamed with a group of people?

    Bow boosting has to be removed. Although I personally dont care very much. And I do it alot. I see death tag as a much better game without bow boosting. It's clear that 90% of the community agree. And it should be removed
    Posted Jul 16, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Jul 16, 2020
    Tavleen007 likes this.
    Posted Jul 16, 2020
  6. As I said in a previous thread, bow boosting is purely a skill learned through effort and could be master in 2 days. While teaming has many forms I think the one that you are saying that should be banned is 2 different teams fight everyone else and not just a team accepting another team into their base and they are just having harmony, targeting can also look similar teaming but they mostly fight after they get you.
    Posted Jul 16, 2020
    mcckaay likes this.
  7. I agree with parrotman wholeheartedly. I can definitely relate to hitting the alpha male in their team group and then all the betas decide to target me!

    As for what craftik said my point is that it DOESN'T take effort. 2 days to master an extremely overpowered technique which is nigh impossible to stop making it extremely viable? No thank you! And as for teaming parrotman is referring to chasers not killing their runner friends and only chasing the guy with no teammates which I've highlited in my post above why I think is so unfair.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jul 16, 2020
    CrimsonComet likes this.
  8. Before we get started, I encourage you to check out our Death Tag Update Proposal and give any feedback you have toward it so we can get implemented what the community wants.

    Now let's get into the thread.

    If you could provide some footage so we could check out the double bow boost and triple bow boost, that would be great. As for bow boosting, I don't see a huge issue with it since:

    1. It's fun for making jumps like the Village roof jump easier.

    2. If Runners are getting spaced away too much, have another Chaser cut them off. This is a team game, and the Chasers need to work together in order to catch up to the Runners. This is encouraged through giving Runners Speed I.

    3. Getting to OP spots that only bow boosters have access to shouldn't be a problem since MI can barrier up those spots to make it fair for others. Bow boosting shouldn't give access to spots exclusive to them, but they should be able to bow boost to make jumps more easily.

    I've had my moments with being teamed on, and I agree that it isn't fun. I'd like to see something punishable along the lines of Gameplay Trolling with what you've described, since it can be annoying with a party having people queue for Chaser and target everyone but the one getting the win; it just isn't fair for a game with one winner.

    The reason why you can't punish for Cross Teaming in this situation is that there are only two teams, so you aren't gaining anything by teaming with the Chasers by them not attacking you. Runners are allowed to stick together since, well, they're on the same team.

    So, all in all, I'd like to see a punishment system worked out for the teaming situations that you've described, but I feel like bow boosting is fine as is and wouldn't need to be removed.

    If I missed anything, please let me know in a reply, thanks.
    Posted Jul 16, 2020,
    Last edited Jul 17, 2020
  9. So. (I'm parrotman) considering how I was rude earlier. I will discuss my points in a more lighthearted way.

    Bow boosting: this I personally think is luckily getting less common. But it is still an issue. Just like tavleen said. Bow boosting is a very easy skill. I learned how to bow boost and triple bow boost in 2 days. It is sad that mineplex even implemented this in the first place. It feels very unfair when somebody wins just by bow boosting.

    Teaming: This is a bigger (opinion) issue. If you dislike the leader of a group. (Like me) than you will likely die every time you are in the server with them. Despite of the skill of the leader, if 5 people are attacking you. Than you have a very small chance of winning the fight. It feels very frustrating when you die because a group of people are constantly targeting you.
    Posted Jul 17, 2020
    Tavleen007 likes this.
  10. I agree with this idea, ways i lose (unfairly) include, but not limit to:
    A traitor who targets me (this is happening more)
    People bow boosting so chasers have no one to kill but me (I use traitor to defend myself from another traitor as I don't normally cross-team)
    Chasers and Runners not fighting each other (as soon as a chaser sees me, they will instantly start chasing me as I don't normally cross-team and I play normally)
    Posted Jul 17, 2020,
    Last edited Oct 4, 2020
  11. Da ZPG how can you leave out your streak of just spawning next to 2 alphas
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jul 17, 2020
    Da ZCT likes this.
  12. Bow boosting has to be removed...
    Posted Jul 23, 2020
    Blockhead_h likes this.
  13. Hello all, I have to agree with a lot of what was said here. I've been on the fence about bow boosting for a while now. I wonder if removing it will make archer kit very weak, but at the same time, keeping it would make archer kit remain pretty strong. In the current state of death tag, bow boosting is incredibly strong.
    @Jaek No hard feelings (I'm sure you're epic :D) but I don't think you understand how powerful bow boosting is. Most of the community are pros and will double or even triple bow boost in a single jump, no video evidence is required, it's totally possible and not that hard to perform. This makes incredible length jumps possible.
    So yes, bow boosting should be removed in my opinion. In fact, bow boosting in Death Tag is not the same as it is in vanilla Minecraft, in vanilla Minecraft when you try to bow boost, you get propelled sideways sometimes, it's not like in Death Tag where it's always straight all the time with increased knockback.
    However, I would keep bow boosting in the game if teaming were to be punishable. Teaming is the strongest feature of the game, stronger than bow boosting, stronger than traitor Knockback and arrow knockback. You have a higher chance of winning if you're teamed with the entire lobby than if you're a skilled player.
    I feel as if teaming should be punishable, for the better. It's not really fair having a skilled player lose all the time because they were only teamed with two people in the lobby.
    So in conclusion, bow boosting should remain implemented if teaming were to be punishable, this would make death tag run like an actual mini-game, games would be quicker, faster games = more xp, wins would be distributed more fairly, and bow boosting wouldn't be as powerful since they would have more chasers on them.
    This is my opinion on this topic, let me know if you have any questions/concerns. :)
    Posted Jul 23, 2020
    Tavleen007, Jaek and mcckaay like this.
  14. I don't know if rules are in our reach, but if we can, I'd love to poll in MPD and GI Discord for this matter to get a better view. Your points are valid and my personal view is to just punish for teaming in general. I'll get back to you as soon as possible on the matter, and I suggest all of you message @HeyItsAdam (Adam#4396) for an invite to the GI discord where we can discuss this more and work on a poll if there will be one.
    Posted Jul 23, 2020
    Tavleen007 and Zyta like this.
  15. I definitely think these revamps would make Death Tag more enjoyable. I am a casual Death Tag player, and I definitely get disheartened when I see a player bow boost, as when I am finally a chaser, being unable to chase them at a hard to reach position makes the game not fun. Furthermore, it is unfair to the players that have not used it to their advantage, as then we have to, unfortunately, target the runner that is still on the ground simply to end the game without it taking ages.

    I also really hate teaming, when a chaser and runner decide to sit in each other, making it impossible for the runner to be hit as the chaser's body is protecting them. The chaser usually has an excuse that definitely does not account for why they did this, and I believe teaming should be punishable in this game as it rightfully is in many other game modes. It gives a highly unfair advantage as others have stated, and it would be better punishable.

    These changes would definitely improve the quality of deathtag, and would definitely bring in more players. +1
    Posted Jul 23, 2020
  16. I cant agree more
    Posted Jul 24, 2020
  17. Ill admit how dumb this because to be friends with kazd and his friends I GOT 200 WINS WITHIN TWO WEEKS and when they threw me away THEY all went after me and the gang is so stupid i like that they have friends but the gang -snip- i find that so dumb cause when they queue all 4 of them go straight after me then taunt so please get rid of teaming or atleast make a limit to how much u can team with
    Posted Aug 5, 2020
  18. also when two of them are in the game and im running on the ground. One of them would hit me into the alpha chaser then they would kill me then two of them would taunt reply if this had happen to you
    Posted Aug 5, 2020
  19. Honestly, while getting targeted all day by a band of 5 nerds, 1 of which kill aura toggles, is sure annoying, I don't think that taunts should be banned just because they make us mad because....that's kind of the point of a taunt. Also don't ban crouching, t bagging isn't always hostile.

    As for the wins boosting, this is just one of several reasons teaming has to be banned. Teamers are capable of farming wins like no tomorrow. The prime example of this is kazd. Most teamers don't really want wins they just like to do what they call "ViBiNg" which is nobody kills anyone and games can be 15 minutes long! But what happens when you mix someone who really wants wins and teams with a lot of people is:

    300+ wins a week. If you have ever played DT, you know this figure is absolute bonkers.

    Statboosting. 8 bestest friends hop on a server when DT is dead and just die to boost one person. Boosting wins and boosting kills for the chaser queueing at the same time. Phenomenal!

    Epic nerd strats such as voting a map with water in it (water kills in DT) in a server of 8 bestest friends and before the countdown finishes, everyone jumps in the water. When the clock ticks 0 and the game begins, water damage is enabled. Everyone dies at the exact same time and everyone ties first place! The fun part is everyone gets a win each! Boosting 8 people at the same time!

    Truth to be told in this day and age of boosting, circle-running teamers, the common folk stand no chance of winning. You can be an absolute God with 300% brain power and robotic movements, never fail a jump in your life and still lose. DT is pretty simple. The more decent chasers on you the harder it is to win. A God with 0 teammates will have to settle for 2nd place vs a newbie with 16 friends.

    Also, no hate to kazd, he's just what happens to come to mind when I think of boosting or teaming. It's epic he finally got his top 10 leaderboard even if he did only boost 4000 wins.

    Also for this reason (teaming) traitor kit has also kind of died. You never know who owns an onlyfans until you hit them and their simps start hunting you down.

    Let's not even start on the camping, bow-boosting teamers.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 6, 2020

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