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Not Planned Bedrock/Java

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by LegoNick1208, Apr 12, 2021.

?

Is this a good idea?

  1. Yes, comment why

    18.8%
  2. No, comment why

    37.5%
  3. At a later date, possibly

    18.8%
  4. Not possible, comment why

    31.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. So im looking at player counts rn and bedrock had around 10.5X the payers than java. But we only have 1 dev and java has many more (Not really keeping updated with java, as i dont play there, if that info is wrong i am sorry) and bedrock gets almost no updates and has a terrible anticheat. So i ask, why does more work go into java then bedrock? The hive has recently announced they will move to only bedrock (I think) and i think mineplex might want to CONSIDER doing the same.

    Pros of moving to all time bedrock:
    -10x more players to give feedback, play the games, and make a community
    -Crossplay
    -Not limited to being 1.8.9 compatible, can go to most recent version whenever they want
    -In my opinion, better gameplay

    Cons of going to bedrock:
    -Loss of 1k players
    -Loss of the games that have never been moved to bedrock
    -Loss of the og place mineplex was made in - java

    I cant really come up with more to add to those lists lol.
    If we move to bedrock all time, those devs that work in java rn can go to bedrock, and we can see more updates and a better anticheat perhaps? Mineplex would progress faster then ever, and would not be called lagplex and bugplex after this, as these new devs would fix those issues. With all these renovations, mineplex would gain popularity, and see more and more players coming to it. You would make more money off payed items (Ranks, etc) due to all these new players. This money will allow you to hire more devs, staff, etc and continue making mineplex grow.
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
  2. These players already exist, they don't provide feedback or provide as big a source of community, most are on mobile and play quickly and casually. I don't agree with this point at all.
    As someone who has both, this is not true, at all.

    - loss of most of the community

    This just wouldn't happen: if Mineplex wants more bedrock developers, they will hire them without closing java. Bedrock gets as many updates as java, java has 1 front-end developer, it wouldn't suddenly change things, it'd just kill a major revenue source for no reason.
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
  3. From a business perspective moving fully to bedrock would make total sense as it has more players, but there's one key thing your missing that cookiebilly also talked about: the community.
    Bedrock is still relatively new. Even though it's been around for about 3 years, its community is still in its growing stages. Java, on the other hand, has been around for about 8 years, and has a very strong and interconnected community. If Mineplex were to move fully into bedrock, that community would be gone. Now you may be thinking, "what's so important about the community? Can't they just move and rebuild on the bedrock version?". Yes, they COULD move to bedrock, but it's very likely that most java players would quit for various reasons. And about why community is important: When it comes to the long-term longevity of a minecraft server, building up a community of players that care for the server helps keep it alive. Even now, after tens of thousands of players have quit the server, there's still a few thousand players who keep playing because of the friends and community they became a part of. I also feel like it's the reason why Java mineplex won't die for at least the next 5 years, as most of us are still going to continue playing because of the community that's been made here.
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
    Paladise and RiceKrisper124 like this.
  4. I started on the bedrock version, and I had a very fun time. But when I got Java I was just blown away. It has so much more content than bedrock with being way less laggy than bedrock. I think the best bet is to add more content to bedrock version.
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
    EpicEnderDragon1 likes this.
  5. Very true, the community would take a huge hit, and some might not like it, some will. My worry is, with or without the community, mineplex is dying. Something needs to happen, and this is what i came up with.

    As i said, my opinion, everyone has one.
    Read these forums, there is a lot of feedback that some people in high positions to do things dont like.
    Most being the 1.2k players as opposed to the 10k that dont receive updates?
    I have had mods, staff, etc reply to me and no, they wont hire more devs, i have seen no proof whatsoever that this will ever happen soon.
    Yes, bedrock needs more content, and to do that they need more than 1 DEV. If they wont hire more, move some java ones to bedrock at the very least. That point you make is the main one of this post, we just have different ideas of going about it
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 12, 2021
    RiceKrisper124 likes this.
  6. As much as it is frustrating that it seems bedrock receives less attention. The solution is not to take away Java. Believe it or not I think this would be a bad idea because not only have tons of people spent money on the Java server, but also countless hours grinding the game. It wouldn’t be fair to take away that experience from the Java Players. I have played a significant amount of both Bedrock and Java, and I would argue that the Java community is actually bigger because the bedrock playerbase is a lot younger and don’t have access to Discord, and Forums. I see a lot more active Java players in those communities then Bedrock. It would also kill Mineplex’s revenue for awhile if they did this because they make a ton of money off of ranks (especially Immortal). I do sgree with your point though, I personally believe Bedrock should get more attention simply due to the fact the playerbase is bigger, but the problem I believe is the developer selection process can sometimes be tedious. So people might be scared to apply and come work for Mineplex. That’s why we don’t see a lot of devs around anymore. We just need to start advertising developer jobs and use some of that money to try and bring in more skills.
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
  7. Yes, we need more devs. I just dont know how we are going to get the staff to get more of them for bedrock, and i wrote this post cause i got annoyed that bedrock had 10x the players and only one dev lol
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 13, 2021
    Jet Starglaze likes this.
  8. Even now, java only has 800 players as of writing this, bedrock has 8k. can anyone tell me how many java devs there are? i have not heard that info anywhere
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 13, 2021
    Jet Starglaze likes this.

  9. bedrock has more potental, but java bring the cash. mineplex wont take away java because its where they get their main source of revenue. to them its probably too risky to remove their main source of revenue and hope things will work out on bedrock. also some people have grinded for years and have spent a lot of money on the server, mineplex couldnt refund them all. if mineplex java truly dies, then it might be time to jump ship to bedrock entirley. I dont think it will though, it has a tight knit community and they would probably be in outrage over the removal of java.


    Whats also frustrating is that we keep making these threads but very rarely have the higher ups decided to respond. i mean like the admins, and leaders and owners. You would think they want to keep an average 9k happy and coming back for more but the lack of attention says it all. we just want transparancy about whats going on what what they are doing to help bedrock succeed. by keeping it hidden it looks like they dont care, even if thats not the case.

    We were told that stats for bedrock would be coming "soon" in 2018. then in 2019, 2020, and 2021. they wont even tell us why bedrock isnt shown love. Its litteraly a meme at this point. when anybody says anything about an update in game someone says "maybe in 2100".
     
    Posted Apr 13, 2021
    maevestarbaby likes this.
  10. no.
     
    Posted Apr 13, 2021
  11. Hey,

    I wouldn't be in support of this myself. I don't know much about the Hive but I know a lot of planning and thought must have gone into making such a huge business decision. Just because it might work out for them doesn't mean we'd see similar results. I can only speak to Mineplex though, and there are some significant differences between Java and Bedrock (i.e. things Java has that the server needs, which Bedrock doesn't have, and vice versa) that would end up being the dealbreaker here.

    Let's talk about the nature of the players on Java vs. Bedrock. This is arguably the most important point there is, because the players are the ones who keep the server active and running; the ones who come up with new ideas for the server, and so much more. Don't forget they're the ones who purchase ranks from the shop and feed Mineplex revenue. Now, it's no secret that players on Java are very interactive. They're usually older and more mature than Bedrock players, more evolved in terms of Mineplex experience, and most of them play an active role in the community by making themselves prominent through activity on all Mineplex's platforms including the forums and Discord server.

    Bedrock players, in comparison, are quieter. That's just the fact of the matter - if you're looking for a lobby or game server on Bedrock where players are actually willing to engage in a conversation, you'll be searching for a while before you find one. Of course there are instances where you could encounter a chatty bunch of players, but most of the time Bedrock players prefer to stick to going about their day quietly. This is likely because the Bedrock audience is quite young. They are far less likely to have a presence in the community outside of playing on the server in-game.

    In light of this food for thought, I believe the Java community is actually bigger than Bedrock's in that sense. The majority of Bedrock players are young and won't care about things like gaining an advantage through purchasing a rank, or posting on the forums. I know some extremely dedicated Bedrock community and staff members who this doesn't apply to, obviously, but what I'm saying is they are in a minority there. I don't think anyone can deny that. The majority of Java players are older and more clued in, they are way more likely to care about things like this.

    If you lost these people, I truly believe you would lose Mineplex. Players are the centre of everything. The whole point of Community Council is to pull ideas, suggestions and feedback from community sources so players have a voice, all the way up to Production, and have a say in decision-making. If you pulled the entire Java community from right underneath it, who would be left to contribute all this? The obvious answer is the Bedrock community, but there aren't as many prominent Bedrock players who are up to this as there are Java. In my opinion, not enough to sustain any sort of community presence compared to what we have now.

    There are so many other things that would fall apart. I mentioned Mineplex's revenue earlier; most of this comes from players' continued purchasing and renewal of Immortal subscriptions in the shop. I've already explained the nature of Bedrock players and why they are less likely to consider even buying a purchasable rank, let alone a monthly subscription. They are nowhere near as competitive as Java players and do not have half the incentive to do this. Even if you'd be okay with the community taking the biggest hit of its life and reducing its presence to the point where there is virtually no input anymore, I'm sure you can agree Mineplex needs to make money. With Java being its main source of income, this definitely couldn't happen, unfortunately.

    I could go on for ages. But you can see it all centres around the nature of the players on Java vs. Bedrock - in my opinion that is the best way to sum up, in one reason why this wouldn't work. Think about Recruitment; they wouldn't have half as much to do with a severe drop in Trainee applicants, which would result in a huge decrease in morale for the team. That has a knock-on effect to Staff Management and MAs who wouldn't have anyone to mentor. Next is the Rules Committee, basically everything they do is Java. And so on and so forth.

    Mineplex's platforms, rules, subteams - everything, allows it to function as one big network. Without Java, Mineplex would lose so much of that make-up for two reasons: 1. because of the nature of those Bedrock players and how they are less likely to sustain many aspects of the network (through buying ranks, applying for Trainee, posting on the forums, suggesting ideas, etc.) in comparison to Java players and 2. because a lot would easily be rendered useless or almost useless without Java (think of the RC example above - if gameplay on Bedrock was anything like Java I'm sure things would be different). But this is what it boils down to. I'm not blaming the majority of Bedrock players at all in my point about how their nature is a drawback, it's not their fault whatsoever. It's just the truth.
     
    Posted Apr 13, 2021,
    Last edited Apr 13, 2021
    Amg likes this.
  12. i can see happening when the java doesnt make enough money like the hive did[or will? idk i dont go on]
     
    Posted Apr 13, 2021
    TenCashew804211 likes this.
  13. Then let me propose a new idea: keep java for the cash (The bedrock lobby the first thing you see are adds for pets let me note) but use that cash to higher MORE THAN 1 DEV. They can afford at least another dev if they are keeping java for the cash. Everything they say is coming soon, and nothing ever happens. Bedrock gets no attention whatsoever, and have not had a major GAME update since the REMOVAL of that multiple game mini game thing (Forgot the name micro games? idk). We dont need new maps, we need a better anticheat, more staff, bug fixes, and much much more.

    can you say why? Give any reason, any ideas? if you dont like mine, show us your idea to fix this server.
    Not helpfull, just dont reply if thats what you are saying.
    thank you
    The first thing you see in the lobby is an ad for pets, i think they are fine on money lol

    It does not need to happen soon, but if it will happen soonrer than 2100 please? Hive and mineplex are different, but something needs to happen.
    I wish our ideas were listened to by some high ups, even if this one is not listened to, there are good ideas out there. If they are inactive, how are they of value to the server compared to the 10k active players on bedrock?
    Not that many people search lobbies to chat - they should go here or to the discord server. Quiet is not a bad thing.
    On the contrary, the young kids are the ones looking to buy things, because thats what they do. I bought lord rank a long long time ago because i didnt know otherwise lol. I argee, the 1k java players are more into the community, and not all 10k bedrock players are in it, but there still are.
    Bedrock players can and are doing this as well, and we dont really get listened to much anyway.

    Add immortal rank to bedrock, bedrock people would also apply if it was only bedrock.
    All of what you said is very true, but a lot of it is community and money things. I think that the money is not an issue, based on how many things you can buy and how easy it would be to add more things to purchase. The community would take a huge hit, as i said in a different reply, but it would regrow. It would NOT regrow should the server completely die off, which is what i am trying to prevent by writing on these forums in this post and others.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 13, 2021,
    Last edited by a Moderator Apr 15, 2021
  14. This doesn't have any real relevancy in what I was talking about. I understand what you mean in terms of Bedrock getting less attention when it comes to actually implementing ideas, but that's not the point I was making. I'm sorry if I said anything that might have misled you. I'm referring to suggesting ideas, which is something not overseen by production (the higherups responsible for having the final say before the developers get to work). Community Council deal with ideas processing, and there is a Bedrock division. Bedrock does get as much attention as Java in terms of considering those ideas from when they're in discussion right up until they're processed and referenced in a doc for the production board.

    Take a look under the Idea Discussion section of the forums. General Idea Discussion, New Game Discussion, New Kit Discussion, and Game Alterations are all Java, and all Bedrock ideas fall under the Bedrock Ideas subforum. Now if you take a look at the number of Java ideas threads vs. Bedrock, Java has five times the amount. I really appreciate those members of the Bedrock community who take the time to do it, but with "10k active players" they are still less likely to submit ideas compared to 1k-2k Java players. This doesn't really have anything to do with the fact that higherups are inactive according to your claim because they don't oversee the processing of suggestions until the very end, which doesn't affect the players going ahead and posting it in the first place.

    For sure, quiet is not a bad thing. I was just saying how Bedrock players are noticeably less interactive than Java players in-game, to back up my point there's a young audience who aren't so much interested in conversation as they are in playing games. Even from looking at my little cousins, all they care about is having a good time. They wouldn't really look any further than that. This is what I mean when I say I'm not blaming the players at all - most of them are kids and if I was their age I wouldn't have looked beyond the scope of playing games quietly and enjoying myself either. Given these are the majority of Bedrock players, it's fair to assume the majority aren't too concerned about contributing to Mineplex outside of their playing on the server.

    To be honest with you, I don't think this is true - most Bedrock players are unranked from what I've seen. I bought ranks on Java when I was younger too, but I had to get my parents' permission back then. Like you, I just wanted one because I wanted one. I still feel like the older players are more likely to buy ranks because they want to gain that advantage (which is an actual incentive to purchase one other than "not knowing otherwise") compared to younger players who tend to just enjoy the game and the overall experience.

    Also I know what you mean, again I want to stress I'm not undermining the Bedrock players who are on the opposite end of what I'm talking about. However, I do firmly believe they are in a minority compared to most of the other players they share the server with, and that's something that has to be considered. The majority will be the ones who affect this most.

    I'm not a member of CCO so I can't really comment on this. If Bedrock players voice an idea or suggestion (especially on the forums) they should be listened to just the same as Java players. I thought CCO were doing a pretty good job on that front, considering they have Bedrock-only members (a Bedrock CCO member was promoted to Community Management for the first time the other day, which is pretty cool) but it seems you think otherwise? Getting listened to is front-end interaction and it should be happening. When I spoke to EmmaLie about this a while back, this is what she said:

    "I’m not going to promise anyone that Bedrock & Java will be completely equal because that just isn’t realistic. What I can promise you is that CoM will do our absolute best to listen to every player, Bedrock or Java."

    If you don't feel like you are being listened to then I would encourage you to perhaps bring this up with a member of CoM or start a discussion in the -unapproved link- Discord server.
    **Perhaps DM me if you'd like the link to join!

    I've always thought this was an interesting idea and it's been suggested before, but there are a few things to point out. There is much lower incentive to purchase a subscription rank on Bedrock than there is on Java. This all circles back to my point about the nature of Bedrock players and its younger audience. The majority don't care about things like their status or gaining an advantage over others in that sense - and that's exactly what's available in the Immortal loyalty points shop on Java and with Immortal itself. Java players are older, more experienced; they want to gain that competitive advantage, earn those perks, show off what they have access to. Java also has way more development time (I know this one isn't Bedrock players' fault at all) which allows for a cool monthly cosmetic to be brought in each month for Immortals. Unfortunately I don't see that happening for Bedrock due to how the situation is with dev time.

    In short, most of the reasons why anyone would go and buy a rank don't apply to much of the Bedrock audience, which is why I would err on the side of caution from a business and marketing decision making perspective. I do think it's worth more looking into from the people who are responsible for this kind of thing to make sure it would work out as intended, but otherwise I don't think so because there is a giant risk of it being unsuccessful.

    A lot of this last part I summarised from my response to this thread, you might want to check out the replies to that if you're looking for more insight into players' thoughts on this.
     
    Posted Apr 13, 2021
  15. Ill go ahead and check that part of the forums out when i can, and yes most posts are for java, but there still are bedrock posts. If 1/10 (Not exact, im too lazy to count lol) of bedrock players did a post, its equal to all of the java players. Remove the troll posts, and the inactive members, and you get about the same number of java and bedrock users.

    I completely agree, but how do you have a good time on bedrock, if we get no updates and are covered in bugs? Some things are fun, but for the younger kids, they just want to play. I have and would get really annoyed and quit if i saw this many bugs as a kid.

    This is true - they are in the minority of players who bought bedrock ranks ill give you that.

    Ranks in bedrock need a bigger incentive to get - better perks, cosmetics, etc. Getting into full lobbies possibly? That would bring in a LOT of ranks, given all lobbies are full 100% of the time. Letting people you inv to a party get in nonmatter the amount of players in a lobby? would also do the same thing. I subscription rank? Also a good idea.

    I also agree that i have seen proof that mods/staff whatever they are called lol are trying to listen to everyone - but it needs work. Not everyone is getting heard, with the thread locking things in other threads i am sure you have seen going around here lately.

    Dev time... dev time... i think ive seen that issue before.... hmm let me think.... maybe you could.... hmmm..... hire a second person to work on an entire version of mineplex? sounds like a stretch.... dont know if its possible..... hmmmm.... (insert villager sounds here)
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 13, 2021
  16. u mean they have edaters, cuz that's 90% of the old-school java community lol. It would be funny if the java server was removed and all the edaters would be forced to go on bedrock where the average age is 9 lol
     
    Posted Apr 15, 2021,
    Last edited Apr 15, 2021
  17. bedrock and java are managed separately
     
    Posted Apr 15, 2021
  18. I've emboldened a few points you've made because I'd like to discuss them, or at least offer my thoughts.

    As far as I remember, The Hive (Java) is closing its doors due to the fact that it has been operating at a loss for some time. In other words, it seems like a business move. Financially it's costing more to maintain than they're gaining from ranks and such, so why keep it active when it's clearly not profitable? If these circumstances were to befall Mineplex, I'm sure a similar move might occur here, but simply moving to Bedrock because it's doable doesn't make sense - there should be compelling reasons to do so. Those who are involved with these sorts of decisions on Mineplex's end know what they're doing and most likely see things that we don't, so I think it's best to leave them handle it.
    I'm personally not swayed by most of the pros that you've listed.
    Sure, Bedrock has around 10x more players, however I don't think that automatically leads to such an exponential increase in feedback. Feedback itself can be quite difficult to give, and I wager the majority of people may not know how to do it. Simply "playing the games and making a community" is the same thing that's happening on our Java edition with its smaller audience, so what makes Bedrock superior in this regard? Perhaps it's worth mentioning that theoretically a larger player-base may lead to more revenue generated, which appeals business-wise (and probably answers the rhetorical question).
    People can already move to the latest version of Java if they please - I imagine what's preventing this is the 1.9 PvP mechanics, although I'm pretty sure plugins are in place to offset those, or if not, it's possible to develop these. Otherwise, updates should be routine.
    What makes Bedrock's gameplay better than Java's? Personally, I've never played Bedrock, so this isn't convincing me. I'm not going to dispute your opinion, but merely stating it when you're trying to influence people's thoughts isn't the best way to go about it. I'm sure you have your arguments, so it'd be wise to open up about them.
    Lastly, I'm not so sure that the developers can just move to Bedrock in the manner you're suggesting. Java is Java, Bedrock is Bedrock - clearly these are two different things, so I imagine that there's going to be technical differences between them that will hinder this move, e.g. programming language used. hint: Java edition is programmed in Java. Bedrock seems to be programmed in C++ (which gives it the cross-platform aspect). There are differences, but the least techy of these is the fact that the developers may have to up-skill, and I can say as a Computer Science student, C++ is difficult. I would provide links to my sources for this, but I'm not entirely sure if it's permitted to link to external sites, I'll have to check up on the rules and come back to this.
    Perhaps it's worth re-writing the OP after you consider everything I've said? But I also see other people have given their feedback too. It'll probably help you personally, but it'd also spare people having to read through pages of arguments to catch-up.
     
    Posted Apr 15, 2021
    WowCaleb likes this.
  19. It’s cheaper to host 40,000 bedrock players then it does to host 3000 Java players
     
    Posted Apr 15, 2021
  20. Do you have a source for this information?
     
    Posted Apr 15, 2021
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