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In Discussion A way to Nerf Frosting

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by CupAWup, May 18, 2019.

  1. yes, I am only Bedrock but I have seen the description of frosting and seen YouTube videos about players using Frosting Kit.

    So maybe snowball KB can be removed because with Frosting, you can easily knock people in the void as they already have slowness. Snowballs don’t do much KB but do a lot when there’s like 3 of them.
     
    Posted May 18, 2019
    Jaxxy and AsianJesus like this.
  2. Hey there!
    I really like that you are trying to create alternatives to a frosting nerf, but I really think that this nerf would take away from half of the kit. Yes, there is slowness, but that is not what people use it for most of the time. Many people use frosting to start combos and that is why the KB is so useful in the kit. You said that you have seen videos of it being used, but I think that playing with/against this kit really helps with the understanding of the kit.
     
    Posted May 18, 2019
  3. The Kb has already seen a nerf and is honestly very weak (It takes 2-3 balls to knock a dude off a one block bridge unless he's on the edge). I think the planned slowness time nerf is more appropriate; the 2.5 seconds or whatever is too long for something that's just supposed to be a combo starter. Other than that, the kit is fine.
     
    Posted May 18, 2019
    RedditCredit likes this.
  4. I used to think Frosting needed a nerf. But now I disagree after playing with and against them a bit. I’ve come to the point that it is an achievement kit and you can’t just buy it on a whim, so frostings deserve their kit.

    The knockback can be annoying, but more annoying is Archer hitting you off bridges from far away, something most Frostings cannot do. If you’re worried about getting hit off by a frosting, build a 3block wide bridge and sprint before you can be hit; if you’re hit there’s a chance of you being safe by the wider bridge.

    I’m shortening it because your main point was knock back, but if someone is having trouble, then they need to do what everyone else does: Get better. Achievement kits are meant to be better because it’s harder to get them than buying a kit. I’m -1 on this if this is an idea
     
    Posted May 18, 2019
  5. I agree that the frosting kit is currently overpowered. However, I don’t believe the amount of knockback to be the issue, but instead, the kit’s ability to give players a large PVP advantage as @cerns pointed out. Bows, although good at long distance, do not contain the same speed that’s able to be applied when using snowballs at close range. Consequently, I would suggest developers allow players to purchase fishing rods through the villagers. This thought came across me as such a necessity for a PVP based game such as cake wars that I had to double check the item's availability!

    I hope this gets fixed soon, as you aren’t alone in this opinion. :)
     
    Posted May 18, 2019
    doeo likes this.
  6. Hello!

    We currently talked about nerfing the KB in GI chats. The opinions were very mixed, but almost everyone agreed that Frosting needed a nerf in some way or another. Whether that means nerfing the KB or nerfing slowness, one or the other or both will happen eventually.

    That does not mean it should be purposely overpowered. All Frosting does is give a pretty big advantage compared to the other kits and discourage newer players from continuing playing the game because they keep getting killed easily because they aren't as adept as people that have played for a long time are.

    See, that's the problem. Cake Wars Kits shouldn't force players who don't have the kit to completely rework whatever strategy they had in mind at that time. Players shouldn't be forced to have to build 3 block wide bridges all because of a kit, that takes time, effort, and something all for an OP kit that can easily be nerfed, while still giving variety to the gameplay.


    Lol no, the last thing we need in Cake Wars is fishing rods. The point is to reduce the amount projectiles can be annoying, not add to the projectile problem by adding even more ranged items, that just makes the problem even bigger and will cause more frustration over the fact that ranged weapons can be so overpowered in a game that has a lot of void.



    Thanks
    Techno
     
    Posted May 18, 2019
    SpitefulNick likes this.
  7. So you’re saying, since people complain about this kit being too much like a fishing rod, we should give fishing rods to everyone?
    That’s one way to make frosting kit useless for once, and loooots of people unhappy.
    Let’s not break the game even more please.

    As for the nerf, it’s a work in progress but we can’t really ensure something will happen considering our first GI nerf choice went unnoticed for months. Maybe in the future, but still a big WIP that won’t end anytime soon.
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
    ScrompLord, Wiz_Techno and nolawn like this.
  8. I appreciate your concern. However, I would like to point out that Survival Games, Sky wars, Gladiators, and a multitude of other games are very popular. If this is a result of fishing rods is your place to argue. Either way, my point is that the introduction of fishing rods would not guarantee the demolition of the game, but instead will even the playing field among cake wars players who are unable to use a similar ability.

    Although this may seem to devastate the kit’s utility, the snowballs are free, travel much further, and can be fired in rapid succession when compared to players purchasing a fishing rod they lose upon death. However, I wouldn’t suggest this as a way not to nerf the frosting kit, hints the title of this thread.
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
  9. You could surely bring up other games to compare, but at the end of the day each game has a unique gameplay style and requirements to stay balanced.

    I wanna give you an easy example as of why adding something like rods would be beneficial in games like SG and SKY and not Cake Wars.
    To start off, SG has no narrow bridges whatsoever, meanwhile SKY rarely has long bridges to cross. Generally speaking, Cake Wars has 20+ blocks to cross, which means way more void area to fall into, no matter what kit you’re using (of course, if you’re going for builder you’ll most likely be safer). That alone would change the gameplay aspect to a more campy and turtle-ish style, considering people could camp any island (especially beacon islands), and purposely rod people off over and over with no effort whatsoever, since rods are quick to use and have a way higher durability.

    Now, onto another scenario. Your team push another team. One person mines, two or three other people keep rodding people away from their own cake while it’s getting mined or eaten. Sounds like not a fun way to play, but considering how there are multiple squads of four using similar strategies, this wouldn’t be any different at all.

    I still think this idea would completely destroy frosting, which is not what we want to move towards when it comes to GI, rather find some balances and nerfs that can make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
    Wiz_Techno, ScrompLord and leo_thya like this.
  10. Heyyo! I know that the frosting kit is a little bit overpowered, but I think that only adding a slowness effect wouldn't make the kit balanced. Yes the kit does need more work for balancing, but I don't think this is quite the road we should go after to balance this kit.
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
  11. Scenario 1) I find it awfully difficult to fall off a 3 by 3 deployed platform from a fishing rod alone. Additionally, the frosting kit and the bows that are currently implemented into the game are much better suited for this task considering they have a higher range and damage respectively. - It would be equally as difficult to board an island while being hit with a fishing rod in SW as in CW implying you aren't able to hit a player from their side if they are moving in your direction.

    Scenario 2) What if players were to fishing rod/bow/snowball back? - If there are 4 players on each team and one is eating the cake, that's a 3v4 (favoring the defending team) at best if the attacking team isn't guarding their own cake.
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
  12. I think rods would be broken in a game like cakewars, I would suggest adding snowballs to the shop instead. However the snowballs would not deal slowness, as a way to keep a use to the kit. This would work similarly as to how builder gets platforms and blocks but you can still buy them from the shop
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
    ScrompLord likes this.
  13. Bro even in the games you mentioned lots of players complained about fishing rods just because of how OP of a combo tool they are. On a game with tons of void that's just going to be amplified. This would also just give players access to spammable frosting, which is a kit many people already dislike.

    In Scenario 1) if you got a 3x3 platform and the other dude has a rod, you're getting hit off that platform unless they are utter trash at the game. Neither archer or frosting are spammable like a rod is.

    Scenario 2) Tbh this probably won't happen because most attacking teams are smart enough to have someone geared spawn killing while they eat, as well as blocking themselves in with the cake. However, rods would still be annoying as hell to deal with, both on bridges or just as a combo tool in a normal fight. The addition of them would absolutely kill the game.
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
    Wiz_Techno and ScrompLord like this.
  14. Yeah, rods are a really strong comboing tool and are complained about in the other games. It will only make the experienced even better while newer players would get decimated by those players. It’ll just break the balance of the game.
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
    Wiz_Techno and ScrompLord like this.
  15. It wouldn't even destroy Frosting, it'd just completely ruin the game. A lot of users have expressed keeping rods out of CW and I have to agree with them. No good solution comes from adding to the problem to fix it, it's instead removing the problem altogether. For example, if you were in a country where a bunch of people had guns, would you solve the problem by giving every single person a machine gun? Or would you just take away all the firearms altogether?

    Thanks
    Techno
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
  16. I agree with your point but I think asking that example to a bunch of Americans is not going to give you the answer you're looking for lol
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
    Wiz_Techno likes this.
  17. Not all of us believe in the right to bear arms lol
     
    Posted May 19, 2019
    oeod likes this.

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